I'm on episode 10 and I'm confused as to why the movies get so much hate. Each episode has a basic plot - mostly that Megatron has a scheme and the episode revolves around the Autobots and Decepticons fighting it out to stop Megatorn. The movies have a simple plot and the film showcases a lot of instances where both factions fight it out and yet the films get so much hate for having "no plot" and "explosions". It feels like double standards. People complain about this movies' characterization but I'm watching episode after episode of Decepticons disrespecting Megatron and Megatron ignoring it.
If you look past the toilet humor and awkward sex jokes, these movies are just as wonderfully ridiculous as the G1 cartoon. I wish more people would see that.
This isn't meant to be an attack on G1 because it's entertaining but, I've always argued that how can people say that Bay's films are bad, that they would rather watch the 86 move when that movie had strange scenes too. Bay had Bumblebee pee on Simmons but the 86 movie had Autobots dancing around a fire and Grimlock being goofy. Also, so far the characters introduced in AoE have more personality than the characters in G1.
Exactly. Which is why I don't understand the hate. The movies are basically live-action G1 episodes and I'm willing to bet that even if the haters don't admit it, if the characters had G1-inspired designs they would look past many of the things they complain about.
I have to agree. Each episode pretty much involves Megatron coming up with a scheme, executing said scheme, then we cut away to the Autobots who are doing nothing then they move into action, both factions fight for five minutes, then the Decepticons retreat in defeat and the episode ends. There is a double standard. People heap praise on G1, even though each episode is exactly the same as the last yet they dislike the movies because they just have a "bunch of explosions and robots and nothing else."
You have to take things in the era when they were made. If you compared the original Scooby Doo cartoon to something like Avatar the Last Airbender or Young Justice then you'd say look at all the problems with Scooby Doo, but if you compared Scooby Doo to the other cartoons of that time period then it's a stand out cartoon series. The biggest problem with the Transformers movies is you have to compare them to the other big movies that came out at the time. It's not how well does Transformers stand up to the G1 cartoon but how well do the movies stand up compared the movies coming out of Marvel/Disney, Universal, and the other studios putting out the massive budget films. When you compare G1 to the other cartoon series of the 80's it's a stand out series. One of the series to survive the era when a lot of the contemporary series fell into obscurity. If you want something to compare G1 Transformers to then you need to see what GI Joe, He-Man, Go-Bots, MASK, COPS, Dinosaucers, and the other boys cartoons were like.
Scooby-Doo and The Last Airbender are different kinds of shows though. Even today there's only been one Scooby-Doo season that involved an overarching story. I understand your point though and ultimately it's a matter of opinion but the films Transformers has to compare to are films like The Avengers, TMNT, and other big summer blockbuster films but in my opinion Dark of the Moon was better than Avengers Assembled and both films focused on an alien invasion. The films are more interesting than The Expendables which at the time were big summer movies. Sure, you could compare it to the likes of The Dark Knight which was a summer blockbuster and there's a discussion to be made there but even as a superhero film that series was almost in a different genre altogether.
Comparing completely different movies is irrelevant when it comes to preference. Some people, like me for example, prefer watching DOTM over the first Avengers, or would rather watch ROTF than Iron Man 2, both of whom came out the same year/year after.
Wouldn't that be a little passé at this point? It's only been ten years...I think most people who still hate on Bay because of the TF movies really aren't concerned with trying to be cool and edgy. You're right - they are wonderfully ridiculous, like much of G1. But when you throw in the toilet humor and awkward sex jokes, the tone changes, and it either draws you out of the movie by making you cringe or reminding you that this is all scripted. And shame on me, but I took my then seven-year-old son to see the first one...and we almost left when Spike's mom starting going on about masturbation. I'm still of the mind that something humorous could have been said without resorting to that.
I hear what you're saying, but I don't think it's quite fair to compare the TF movies to other massive budget films, unless we're talking solely about massive budget films that are also re-imaginings of old '80's properties. Besides, Bay kind of threw down the gauntlet for comparison to G1 in this article from June of '07: The Rebirth of Optimus Prime: Behind the Scenes with Director Michael Bay "I've heard so many people say, 'Michael Bay, you've destroyed my childhood,' " says the man himself from the cathedra of his Santa Monica, California, editing bay. Appropriately, Bay is wearing a black Decepticons T-shirt. He's aware of his image and, to some extent, relishes it. "I knew there were fans," he sighs, shaking his shaggy blond power-mane. "I didn't know there were people who'd hunt you down. I urge them to watch the 1986 animated movie, go watch the cartoon. You'll want to shoot yourself." Since he brought it up at the outset, and since that last line says to me that he thinks he's doing something better than the original, he was essentially inviting comparison.
You'd be surprise how long hate bandwagons will last. They tend to be the loudest on Youtube comments I've noticed. Heck I know people to this day that are still on the George Lucas hate bandwagon and it only recently started dying out a bit since some of those people change their target from George Lucas to TFA. It's also kind of fueled by internet celebrities since a good majority of their fans, usually kids, tend to treat their word like the Word of God. So they'll proclaim how much they hate something just so as long as their internet idol shares the same thing. I would have to say Nostalgia Critic's fanbase is a pretty good example since he made quite a few Bay bash jokes, his worst being the Pearl Harbor review. It's done for comedy purposes but the younger viewers don't get that and start spouting the same opinion. Thus a hate bandwagon is born. Which is a shame since that mentality makes it hard to find valid criticisms. I say valid criticisms since the same can hold for the fan side too that usually comes in the form of the Love bandwagon with proclamations of "You're not a true fan if you don't like every single thing this franchise has released!" But despite this, beneath both bandwagons are valid critics since those critics are kind of the starting point for both sides. Sorry for going on a ramble there for a moment. Anyways to the topic, I would say quite a bit of it has to do with nostalgia. When you look back at things from your childhood, the memories tend to be fonder than what the actual product is like. And example I would give is when me and my brother decided to play "Monster's Inc Scream Arena" as adults, figuring it would be as fun as we remembered while playing as kids. We played the game and quit after one match, trying to figure out how we remembered having so much fun with a game that was in reality pretty boring.
This is similar to my view though kind of different everything I watch I judge in an objective way to an extent overcoming our own personal biased is very difficult but I try to separate whatever I watch from the source material. If these weren't transformers movies would I still like them if I wasn't a transformer fan would I still like them. On a whole I could probably do a full analysis on just why from a story, character development, emotion and action standpoint I think the transformers movies are actually better than the MCU. I never understood the lack of plot complain in fact the transformer movies are some of the only action franchises that have genuinely shocking stories. I don't think if it wasn't leaked anyone would've expected Optimus to die in the second or Sentinel's betrayal in the third. They really think outside the box, Four movies and our villains were Megatron, Fallen, Sentinel, and Lockdown all but Megatron are obscured villains, Lockdown was only like four years old. We're five movies in and we still aren't certain if we have even reached Unicron. They don't choose the obvious choice and I admire their creativity for that.
What is missed here is that G1 was meant to be ridiculous, you can go into it and just enjoy it as a kid or as an older fan just laugh at all the weirdness or baffling moments. Weird moments in kids shows draw the childs attention and silly moments such as a Transformer surfboarding are 'cool' to a kid who will probably end up playing with a toy transforming them, flying them round the room, moving them as vehicles or more commonly, and probably why we saw surfboarding transformers, taking them to the bath and playing there (even though its not a good idea with most Transformers) The movie's are not like that, they are bogged down by roughly an hour or so of human interaction that doesn't actually contribute much to the story and overall could be cut. The characters are not developed as well and you cant enjoy the ridiculous moments because the movie doesn't let you enjoy them without breaking you away from them for human dialogue. The ridiculous potentially fun moments are bogged down with story or simply don't feel as epic because its real life and humans are always thrown in the mix. Racist, sexist and generally unlikeable stereotypes fill the movie that I'm certain many would overlook (Because not many people actually care about how racism, sexism or other forms of hate are portrayed) but a few would have issue with them. The core point is the following; G1 - directed at kids OR generally those aged below 10 Movies - directed at teenagers OR generally those aged 12 and above G1 was not trying to be anything more than a goofy show with basic plotlines and while it occasionally had slightly more adult development, it was a cartoon show made to sell toys and it was generally shown on TV or can be viewed very cheaply (or completely free on Youtube or other sites) The movies meanwhile are made to sell tickets, the quality can be judged more so because you pay to see it and its meant to target an adult audience. They are generally more hated because films are generally critiqued more than TV shows because once again, you pay to go see movies. Its only in recent years with the advent of things such as Netflix that people started reviewing TV shows more and critiquing them, and critiquing of terrible shows ended up leading us to better kids shows like Gravity Falls. Is G1 great; No - Though its understandable and more likely to be appreciated because it was targeted at a younger audience and for that audience it had a fairly strong though basic storyline Are the movies great; No - And its less understandable because great directors are involved and because you'd expect something with millions of pounds thrown at it to be better than G1, instead of only occasionally being more enjoyable I would agree on this point, but; Megatron - was an obvious choice, he and Optimus are the main parts of the franchise Megatron AGAIN and The Fallen - or a servant of Unicron makes the most sense for the sequel, it teases the possibility of Unicron, does world building and it establishes a hierarchy that could be used to introduce stronger villains. In terms of the villain choices his is the most unique and one of the few not motivated by recognisability Megatron for the THIRD time and Sentinel Prime - like a discount version of 'The Fallen' for the Autobots side, he does world building and establishes a hierarchy for the Autobots. The issue here is that he was originally going to be Ultra Magnus, the key point being that they chose him based on popularity compared to Optimus. Megatron for the FOURTH time (Galvatron) and Lockdown - Transformers animated and the complete lack of future planning are the things we can attribute to his inclusion. If Bay hadn't decided to return then chances are Galvatron would have been the sole villain, a lot of the movie focuses more on Galvatron being built and KSI. Megatron for the FIFTH time and an unknown main villain - Similar to the strategy since the second movie, Megatron focuses on recognisability of his name while a main villain is introduced that is related to fan hype, in this case likely the planet sized thing which is probably meant to harken back to Unicron in terms of imagery (even though i get the feeling its not him)
This going to be lengthy since Scorpio said a lot for me to disprove sorry. That is wrong the whole belief that the human stuff contributes nothing is a direct result of people just zoning out during those scenes. Revenge Sam leaving includes the following him being possessed by the Allspark, his parents leaving for their trip which becomes quite important later on, Soundwave sending Wheelie to follow Mikela and retrieve the shard. Leo's introduction establishes that because of the black out there was no factual evidence of what happened in LA it also sets up Simmon's introduction by mentioning Robot warrior. Only the last sections of the scene are filler which is about 3 minutes. The party scene sets up Alice's reveal. Sam's melt down really establishes what is happening to him even more importantly the book Sam reads in thirty seconds plays a very big role as it's what allows him to solve the riddle. Simmon's intro establishes the existence of the seekers and wheelie leads us to Jetfire, which is self explanatory. The scene under the stars is when Sam solves the riddle leading to the Matrix. As you can see nowhere near as pointless as you claim. Dark of the moon, Sam getting his job because he got the recommend letter from Dylan Sam getting that job is very important as he wouldn't of met Wang and discovered the decepticons plan without it. The first Dylan scene establishes how close he and Carly are which is very important since he uses that to force Sam to work for him. The scene between him and Carly at his work establishes her car that Dylan gave her and boy does that pay off. Wang's a humor scene but it does unveil the conspiracy. Simmon's intro establishes a few things first the transformers are public knowledge and second a large chunk of the population want the Autobots off the planet, foreshadowing the exile scene. The next two scenes involve Sam and Simmons unraveling the decepticons conspiracy. Carly's intro is necessary since you have to establish her as well as their relationship due to how much it motivates Sam's arc. Age first we only have three scenes with the yaeger family and the first involves Cade buying optimus, the second is all about their financial problems which you need to establish to justify Cade's actions, Tessa's annoyance with his lack of income and lucas's decision to make the call. If you don't see the endless bills, the financial aid rejection, and their home potentially being sold the reality of their situation won't sink in and lucas making the call doesn't make sense. Once Optimus is revived it's about the robots. The card scene, the train scene and the ship rescue are the sole exceptions. The whole pointless filler complaint is exaggerated to ridiculous extremes those scenes are there for a reason the problem is you fans just put cover your ears and go no robots, la la la I'm not listening, and thus miss crucial stuff explaining why the stories make no sense to you and you don't notice any of the relevance to those scenes. I could answer the villain part as well but I'm trying to keep this shorter. This is the difference between fans of the movies argument and detractors argument. We have actual facts we can prove while you usually just have over exaggerations that we always disprove.
I'd like to point out that you're comparing a 1984 20-minute toy commercial to a 21st century feature-length film and implying they should be held to the same standard. Don't get me wrong, I can enjoy both the G1 cartoon and the movies for what they are, but that doesn't make them good.
