Siege: Constructive Criticism

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by lordcryotek, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. lordcryotek

    lordcryotek M'Hael

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    Sadly, War for Cybertron: Siege is now basically over. I am happy to say that I can't think of a single figure from the impeccable Siege line that I would describe as being bad. Siege is arguably the most well-received main-line Transformers series since the original Classics line, but it's not without its flaws. The improved quality of the Siege figures is evidence that Hasbro paid attention to the feedback we gave them during the Prime Wars Trilogy. I am creating this thread to allow us to give Hasbro some constructive criticism on the incredibly impressive Siege line. This is not a thread for whining, this is not a thread for bickering. If you don't like the criticism someone else gives, keep it to yourself.

    So, here are some things about the Siege line that I would like to see improved in Earthrise and beyond:
    • Face paint--Every single copy of the seeker mold that I have seen has a messed up face. This is a huge QC issue and the reason why I passed on the main trio of Skywarp, Starscream and Thundercracker. I have the Rainmakers and like them alright, but I had to repaint their messed-up faces. I am not a great painter and don't like to have to fix my figures.
    • Forearm Gaps--With all of the improvements in Siege over old lines, this particular design cue brought from Prime Wars really bugs me. I should not be able to see directly through Megatron's forearms. There are other areas of the figure that aren't as visible that could be hollow instead. This is seen on Sideswipe, Red Alert, Mirage, Megatron, Skytread, Soundwave, etc.
    • Visible Hollow parts in general--This is a catch-all for hollow legs, hollow thighs, and any other hollow parts. I don't like to see breaks in the sculpt of my figures. With what we're now paying for these figures, this shouldn't be happening. I'd rather have a smaller deluxe than a bigger deluxe full of gaps. To Siege's credit, this is the exception to the rule, which is why it stands out so much when we see something like Impactor's hollow legs. Alternatively, Ironhide is an example of a figure with hidden hollow parts (his legs and underneath his forearms) and it works perfectly.
    And those are my critiques of Siege. It's a great line that I loved and I'm sad to see it go. What do you have to critique about Siege?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
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  2. Maximus Danz

    Maximus Danz Trying to achieve something

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    For my constructive critisim I got a few Ideas:

    Tolerances - It has been really hit and miss, much worse with the later waves and based on figures, although the Shift to mostly universals from ball joints is very appreciated.
    Paint - I like the more paint (aside from war paint) but I find it chips a lot, my siege Optimus' grill is Covered in them, along with Magnus and a few others.

    Outside of those, siege has been a knockout for me.
     
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  3. fschuler

    fschuler Post Count Inflated With Hot Air TFW2005 Supporter

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    The only criticism I have is the lousy QC on some of the pegged hinges (Ironhide’s leg panels...Starscream’s chest...Hound’s feet) and some of the 5mm holes. Otherwise, Siege has been an upgrade over past CHUG lines.
     
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  4. orangeitis

    orangeitis All orange, all the time. Looks infectious.

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    No 3mm fist holes on Micromasters. Battlemasters at least have them on their forearms. Even some Botbots get 3mm fists!!! But MMs get none of that. =(
     
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  5. Fafnir72

    Fafnir72 XYxInfinity

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    Seeker faces, 1st batch Starscream had thin face paint. 4 months later, they had thicker.

    As for the hollow forearms, unfortunately, MP Starsaber also implemented this design.

    War paint/damage was not necessary. Could have focused this on extra paint apps.
     
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  6. imfallenangel

    imfallenangel Well-Known Member

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    I think that :

    1st is the hollow sections are the worse of it. Arms, legs, etc. on the robot, and also the weapons.

    I would even say that I'd consider Jetfire's undercarriage to be really lacking. Something that big should have had a way to put panels.

    Astrotrain's caboose could have been engineered to turn into shuttle rocket boosters and panels for the back side that bugs most people, and turn into armour for the robot, even if similar to Shockwave's extra arms armour.

    The 2nd thing is the loose 5mm connection ports. ALL my weaponizers even when new do not stay together, lots of figures have very loose ports, including their hands so most of the accessories are loose. I've had to Pledge the heck out of everything.

    The 3rd thing would be a lack of weapons and accessories,
    1. Prime should have had his trailer
    2. Prowl should have had shoulder cannons
    3. The Datsun brothers should have had a bit of difference in the mold and at least different weapons and proper colours
    and that the ones they had, most weren't the right color, so I've had to:
    1. Buy gap fillers
    2. Buy better weapons
    3. paint the ones they had to be better/correct colours
    For 4th item; quality control
    1. Missing parts: my Astrotrain was missing the large "wheel" for the caboose, so I did have to exchange him.
    2. Lack of precision: My Ironhide does not peg in well for the leg panels so there's a small gap on top, while my Ratchet has issues with the side panels pegging in. Ultra Magnus's snapping grey parts for the shoulder towers required some sanding to finally close correctly.
    3. I do find that almost all of them can be a bit tricky to align just right, so a bit more play would be good.
    I didn't have any issues with the face paint on any of mine.

    For 5th, not so many repaints, more unique molds or at last decent remolds with enough difference to really be a different figure.

    6th, more articulation for the targetmasters, and again, different designs, but at the same time, make sure the articulation is thight, and apply this to the micromasters.

    Lastly, stop the "exclusives", make more of each figures to ensure availability for everyone.
     
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  7. Fallout

    Fallout Banned

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    i don't know if this counts since it's not really an issue with construction or durability, but 2 releases of the lionizer mold n neither one in g1 colors, or even colors besides "black body n grey head?"

    impactor's hollow legs n general lack of mass compared to springer is annoying too. great we finally got an official impactor, amazing we got the marvel head as the default head, but... he's just a deluxe. i get it, he's a beefy deluxe, but he's still a deluxe. not to mention springer's a beefy voyager, so it's even more glaring.
     
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  8. popcorn

    popcorn Well-Known Member

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    Agree on the hollowness. Can make a figure look cheap and unfinished. Shouldn't have to by gap fillers.
     
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  9. RodimusRex

    RodimusRex Well-Known Member

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    I feel like the gaps are basically only present on characters who are large for their size class with the exception of Megatron and Soundwave deserving the arm panels the other Voyagers got. Those I have less trouble forgiving.

    It’s a catch-22. If this were a true mini-MP line — which it’s VERY CLOSE to being — they might as well go the extra mile and make Ironhide and Ratchet and Impactor into Voyagers and put the wave budget savings from short Voyagers into Megatron and Soundwave improvements.

    At the same time, I think the sticker shock might be too high if you decided to make Sideswipe the tallest deluxe (and put wave savings into concealing his wrist transformation).

    I’m confident the “Mini-MP crowd” would pay for it since they’d pay for more expensive gap fillers anyway but I think there’s a balancing act being done since kids are still a big focus.

    A part of me would like to see Hasbro put more effort and love into Cyberverse and shuffle G1 into its own Studio Series where they do shuffle the size classes around such that:

    Minibots through Sideswipe = Deluxe, no gaps or compromises
    Ironhide through Starscream = Voyager
    Optimus/Soundwave to Magnus = Leader, with trailers or weapons/effects bundles to fill out packaging as needed but with robots getting the class budget
    Dinobot + Minibot = Commander
     
  10. Rattlehead1320

    Rattlehead1320 Well-Known Member

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    My main complain would be the chest hole on some of the micromaster figures. I know the WFC story is before the arrive on Earth but some of the alternate modes could have had a better design. Cog and Soundwave for intense, the alternate modes looks very uninspired .
     
  11. autobot prowl

    autobot prowl Well-Known Member

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    The "battle damage" ruined this line for me. The shattered chest on Soundwave really killed the look of that figure. Some figures weren't too bad but Prime would have looked much better without it. Also, the price increases really made me picky with this line. I miss the old $10 deluxe days, sadly I know they will never return.
     
  12. darqen

    darqen Well-Known Member

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    Only few minor quibbles, as for the most part these are amazing figures:
    1. Megatron- the neck panel not locking in
    2. Hound - The shoulder cannon doesn't come with it's missile
    3. Red Alert doesn't have his shoulder cannon
    4. Shockwaves armaments - as awesome as the ship mode looks, i have no use for them.

    Cartoon accurate quibbles - as I'm a cartoon purist collector and as this line has been stated as attempting to be cartoon accurate I was a little surprised at the following:
    1. Sideswipes cannon looking nothing like his toon
    2. Magnus' chest - as much as a i love the magnus figure it still niggles that we got the toy's chest rather than the cartoon
    3. Rumble, Ravage and Laserbeak not having their various weaponry attached
    4. The seekers not having accurate arm cannons - althought considering we are getting Earthrise seekers i understand why


     
  13. fschuler

    fschuler Post Count Inflated With Hot Air TFW2005 Supporter

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    Can't believe I forgot: Where the hell are Cybertronian BB, Jazz and Jackie??
     
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  14. MyTea Boc

    MyTea Boc Do you smell that?

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    Awwwww, But i love a good moan that devolves into a heated debate about tiny issues on little plastic dudes. :p 

    I agree with you, the line overall has been amazing, the only misfire I noticed was Nightbird the QC was a bit lacklustre (removable crotch? errr) and just a bit of a disappointing figure. But hopefully Earthrise has less QC issues overall.

    The forearm gaps don't bother me, but definitely a few figures the hollow parts where a bit distracting. Galaxy Prime's cannons and Impactor's legs being the worst offenders. I don't mind hollow bits as long as they aren't glaringly visible. A little more articulation to Prime's cannons so when they are on his back they can face the empty part away would have been nice.

    I would say the placement of a few of the pegs for the blast effects irked me a bit. Mainly sideswipe's chest peg - I hope earthrise keeps the pegs to discreet areas where they don't look as obvious. I think Springer, Sixgun and Astrotrain did a good job of integrating their chest pegs.
     
  15. Fafnir72

    Fafnir72 XYxInfinity

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    About the Datsun heads, Hb/Takara must have been scrimping but it would have been great if Bluestreak had his own head sculpt. But then again, how could Hb/Takara milk the mold? Wait! Maybe a "Diaclone blue" Bluestreak? :lolol 
     
  16. Dachande

    Dachande MULTI-QUOTE- USE IT. Super Mod TFW2005 Supporter

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    Outside of Impactor, pretty much none of the hollow areas on any of the figures bothered me at all. There were reasons for them, so once you looked at the gaps and saw the engineering decisions around them, they aren't all that bad. Even Impactor's hollow areas could be talked through, as they made him a really tall Deluxe. I see the open areas as the compromise.

    I do appreciate some good old forearm cover panels like what some figures utilize (ex. T30 Brainstorm), but if it doesn't fit the budget or the engineering, then so be it. Besides, most of the time the open forearm areas have additional sculpting to make up for it.

    Overall, I really liked the battle damage paint. It gave the figures some life and provided some storytelling.
    The exception is Soundwave's chest. That went a bit too far, but even still it didn't even come close to ruining the figure for me.

    On the QC side, I really didn't experience any that weren't easily fixable. Ironhide's leg panels were loose, Megatron's neck panel drooped slightly, Starscream's chest panel came off, Chromia's panties kept flying off...
    Yep, that's all I really had to deal with. All simple fixes, too.

    I believe my only true criticism for the line as a whole was that each figure didn't come with effect pieces. That should have been standard across the board, not just with the TM's and big guys.
     
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  17. RKStrikerJK5

    RKStrikerJK5 number one Bangles fan on the boards

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    This is my biggest complaint. I'll extend it to the Seekers, too. Then again overall I'm just tired of those three guys being identical mold-wise.
     
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  18. Eric

    Eric VOTE.

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    The lack of Bumblebee in this line is rather curious, indeed. You’d think a character who got a whole freaking movie to himself last year would be present in Siege. As for Wheeljack, we know he’s being saved for Earthrise. Jazz? Honestly, I don’t know.
     
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  19. imfallenangel

    imfallenangel Well-Known Member

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    For me, I can understand them being the same mold to a point, but they could easily do a few parts on another slate that would do this at a low "cost".. same with the weapons. Astrotrain has one "missile" launcher, that's probably a penny or two worth of plastic, heck even a dime's worth isn't the end of the world, so why just one included that ends up throwing it out of balance.

    That's why my point about accessories, as a small piece of plastic, like a few more tools for Ratchet would be a huge asset, and it would make the higher prices a bit more palatable and win people over a lot more..

    I remember some TFs having several adds-on, but now, it's the bare minimal that Hasbro seem to go with "that's good enough, it'll sell like this" attitude that I get.

    Lots and lots of example with POTP (Grimlock - no weapons) and previous lines (insecticons - no weapons) and we have to turn to 3rd parties for the items that should be included? it's just wrong.

    I've never add to buy add-ons and do paint as much as I have lately.
     
  20. fschuler

    fschuler Post Count Inflated With Hot Air TFW2005 Supporter

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    It just seemed like the perfect opportunity to do those versions of those characters. Maybe they'll return to Cybertron for WFC part 3.