Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by sevenlima, Mar 1, 2017.
You guys think they should keep with Beast Wars show for the sequel without that technorganic crap ?
I'm not quite sure what you're asking.
I don't know what you mean? Can you clarify please
If they could have scrap that Beast Machines.
When Beast Machines first aired, I hated it with a passion. It didn't help that I had an entire fandom helping to fuel that rage, but a good deal of it was my own legit hatred for the show. I'd pick it apart along with everyone else & rip into all its inconsistencies with BW.
But after having rewatched the entire show in the span of a week, without having an entire week between episodes to dig up every flaw, I found it to be much more enjoyable. I also calmed down over the years before rewatching it. Since then it's become one of my personal favorite TF shows. And while I still recognize all its issues, that doesn't stop me from enjoying it.
So no, I wouldn't get rid of BM. It's a great show.
After watching BM when it first aired and after multiple viewings of the entire series, I like to think it takes place in a parallel universe. It happens to share one common event with BW, when the maximals left earth with Megatron strapped to the shuttle. That event splinters into two seperate realities. Megatron frees himself during the transwarp trip and BM becomes that stories reality.
Beast Wars continues with Megatron still a captive and they all arrive on Cybertron safely. Would love to see a new Beast Wars series start from there.
Thats how I explain the discepancies between the two series to myself anyway.
Like a couple have said, I like Beast Machines as a sequel. We catch up with characters who basically have gone through some shit. They're a little different, yes, but because they've been through a lot.
As for a title for a further sequel? I think if something were to be made today, "Beast" would need to be incorporated in the title for a connection to be formed.
However, if we would have received a sequel then, it is interesting to note that Hasbro was going to move away from "Beast" in the title with Transtech.
Agreed on all accounts. I still don't really care for the technorganic Cybertron ending but otherwise it's a fantastic series, and a great sequel to Beast Wars.
Actually I hated Beast Wars too until I actually sat down to watch it (and got past the first couple episodes)
BM was a well-written and beautifully animated show that was unlucky enough to be the direct successor to what many still consider to be the best Transformers show ever. I personally don't like BM because it changed the personalities of the Maximals for the worse, but I can see its merits.
Beast Machines was a bad show, if not broken don't fix.
My only hang ups with BM are largely technical aspects. What it did is fine, it's more like how it did it that I find eh. Like the techno-organic Cybertron is a grand idea. Cybertron being a totally metal planet of just metal, metal and more metal has always been a silly concept to me. Even G1 showed there was rocky dirt the deeper you went. Having it be a perfect blend of a technological world with a normal planet is a good way to keep it special but not goofily specific to one element. What bothered me was the fact that it was just a retextured Cybertron model with patchy blue and green all over it. Even in the context of the show, the Maximal's own bodies were flawless hybrids of technology and organics. But of course that was all bugdetary constraints, like the hilariously bad people running over the hill animation.
I also think if some characters were handled with more subtlety it would've conveyed their message and the struggles they were dealing with more earnestly. Like Silverbolt becoming troubled over his reprograming and turning distant and regretful is a brilliant concept. He was always so vapid to real problems and approached everything with the same bone-headed optimism, it was a good idea to have him go through a rude awakening. Problem was they cranked up the angst to ridiculous levels, making him arrogantly standoffish and downright douchey even to Blackarachnia when he should've been more quietly self-loathing and cynical. (this would've also lended more naturally with his Samurai/ronin-like design) I'm thankful he went back to mushy ol' Silverbolt at the very end, but it didn't feel very natural or earned. He needed to start small and grow back into himself. Same with Nightscream who wasn't a bad character in concept, but the angsty-teen angle was insufferable with his whiney, petulent voice and constant "you're not my real dad" conflict made him just a chore to tolerate. I would've much prefered the original concept of a Newt-like character who showed in less blabbermouthed ways just how horrifying Megatron's takeover was. Not only would Nightscream had been more sympathetic, we would've hopefully been spared his haphazard design. (and I LOVE the BM designs as standalone designs, except him) Plus it would've had his relationship with Noble more natural as they'd both be quiet, misunderstood survivors of trauma.
But so much was done right, even if you don't like it. Cheetor's character was handled perfectly, continuing his development from BW unimpeded. Primal's struggle with belief and blind faith was probably the most atypically mature fall from grace a hero in Transformers has ever gone through. Visually the show was phenominal most of the time. The simplistic matte styling of the show gave it this timelines, almost cel-animated feel despite not using effects like cel shading. It still holds up to this day, and evne pulls of the stylistic CGI approach better than some modern cartoons do thanks to it's much more fluid and natural animation. The only times it didn't look great is whenever it flashed back to or reused Beast Wars designs and the aformentioned final scene's shoe-string budget. The character acting, both in voice and visuals, is still practically unmatched. The callbacks to G1 concepts like the friggin' Plasma Energy Chamber of all things, the Key to Vector Sigma, revisiting all this lore but for way more than just mere throwaway references was great. And while many people bemoan it, the Maximals just being completely outmatched almost constantly are stakes no TF show has had before or since, and makes their guerilla tactics feel more crucial.
BM is no BW, but BW was lightning in a bottle. A perfect storm of happy accidents, writing-by-the-seat-of-their-pants, and hard work form people who just wanted to tell their own story. BM was the same, really. It was hardly any more controversial than BW was, and was the same situation of writers creating a story with near total freedom. It only falls short as it's a direct continuation of the previous show, versus BW which was not so direct. It's sort of unfair, but understandable, that BM gets such a bad rap as it was ultimately mostly to BW what BW was to G1.
It's pretty interesting that all the BM support in this thread comes in well-articulated, thoughtful posts, and yours are... not so much. Though I also don't know if you're a native English speaker or not.
Also, BM didn't set out to "fix" anything. It never retconned any events or characters, it changed them going forward by creating for more dramatic circumstances. Almost all, if not all, of BM's conflict was inter-personal. It was all about the characters, what they did, and what had been done to them.
cheetor is hot rod done right. no mystical talisman that suddenly makes him mature and well done, he actually had to learn how to be a leader
Perfectly said. Beast Machines may not have been up to the level that Beast Wars is but that still doesn't make it a bad show.
@SPLIT: Well said, man. I definitely agree with you on Cheetor. However, my favorite characters in the show were honestly the Vehicons - Jetstorm was by far the most entertaining character on the show.
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The reason why they stopped using the Beast Wars title is because Hasbro wanted things to head in a different direction. That's why Beast Machines was so different, because it wasn't Beast Wars. I still don't fully understand why so many people think it should've just been Beast Wars seasons 4 & 5, when it was a different show. Of course they were going to take the characters in a new direction, in order to make the show new and distinct. I guess if they were to make something that was nothing more than BW seasons 4 and 5, they might as well have kept the Beast Wars title, as you suggest, but that's not what they were trying to do with Beast Machines.
Beast Machines is a fantastic show. As for being a sequel to Beast Wars, it does have its faults (Megatron's completely different personality being the biggest), but at least it's not Energon/Superlink bad as far as sequels go.
It may not have delivered, but it was at least ambitious, and it deserves to be recognized for that at least. I'd rather have a show that takes chances and falls flat than one that tries to walk the same territory over and over.
My big problem with Beast Machines is that it is missing heart, meaning I rarely, if ever, get hyped, tear up, laugh, or get excited in a positive way while watching it.
How would be your Beast Wars sequel ?
If there had to be one, I think a safe thing for it to do would be to deal with the Tripredacus Council, because they are the greater scope villain introduced in Beast Wars.
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