Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by TFFan01, Dec 20, 2019.
As a prequel to Beast Wars cartoon.
Isn’t that what G1 is?
Beast Wars followed, more or less, the G1 toon and comics, but eventually settled on almost the cartoon exclusively by the end. What would a BW have to explore that wasn’t in the original series’?
If Hasbro was ever going to do an explicit "G1 redux" show, I think it would be kinda cool to have it also be the Beast Wars version of the timeline. But I don't think that's likely or particularly necessary.
I don't think it leaned that hard toward the cartoon, especially with the end bringing in the "Covenant of Primus" and Tarantulas' line that was meant to allude to Jhiaxus' Cybertronian Empire. Beast Machines on the other hand...
Eh, the Covenant of Primus was just Furman ruining the end of a great show, and Tarantulas' line wasn't meant to reference anything in particular, it was only after the show that Larry DiTillo said they may have tied him to the Cybertronians if the show had continued.
They also had Ravage talk, as if he does that all the time
B'cuz in the cartoon, he was a big ol' cat that turns into a cassette tape. He doesn't need to talk; he growls, and gets the idea across.
"Growl <I'm going to eat you!>"
In Beast Wars, tho', he was an actual humanoid (a triple changer, maybe?), and had the need to talk.
How he stands and walks doesn't actually change whether or not he needs to talk. What really made speaking necessary is that he suddenly had to deliver a bunch of exposition
But anyway, the characters without biped modes already talked in the comics, whereas the cartoon played to our expectation that "animals" don't talk. So he's closer to his Marvel counterpart, regardless of why.
Are we saying for them to do a Beast Wars show where it's G1 characters instead of all new characters? For example it would maybe be Starscream instead of Terrorsaur, and Bumblebee instead of Cheetor? Is that the idea?
No, the OP is talking about how Beast Wars references a version of G1 that isn't an exact match for any known version we've seen. It appears to reference both the G1 Marvel comics and the G1 Sunbow cartoon, treating them both as a common mythos. So the question is whether we should have a new take on G1 that tries to be this "missing link" version of the era.
Waste of time to do an entire new G1 that only has minor changes.
I would say Beast Machines followed thr G1 toon more closely
BW pretty much toed the line to the end of its run
And in the G1 comics ,he was a big ol' cat that turns into a cassette tape...... That Talked all the time hence the connection to the comic
I hate to say it but I agree with you on that
I know this is well known/established, and that it's a case of a passing comment ("Unicron's spawn") taking on a life of its own, so "it's not canon," BUT...
I still choose to see Tarantulas being "not descended from Autobot or Decepticon" as similar to Cybertron Soundwave/ Sideways... a child of Unicron, a Transformer but not a Cybertronian at all.
TBH, the WfC mention of "a new faction" had me a little let down that it was just mercenaries instead of convergent evolution by a separate species. "Uni-Cronies" if you will...
Like, after the 86 movie and being bodily destroyed, Unicron had the thought "fight fire with fire"... or wanted to plant dark seeds within the populace of Cybertron to ensure their destruction.
That would be a waste of time. But for all we know, only a few major events (the Ark crashing, TFTM) might be broadly the same, and everything else other than the characters might be different. There weren't that many specific references to G1 events in Beast Wars.
If they went the extra mile and included the Swarm and the Cybertronian Empire, as had been considered, it might be very different from the G1 cartoon indeed.
He did in the comics.
Also, considering he was rebuilt, that's not really an issue either way.
Blending G1 TV and Comic story elements together into one universe. Sounds like the Transversal Continuity.
A lot of things actually. For starters as you mention BW only LOOSELY followed G1 to begin with mixing elements of both the cartoon and the comics which totally contradict each other, and also introducing entirely new concepts that never existed in G1. Going to go into more detail about this in response to this next quote someone else posted.
They actually wouldn't be minor at all. There are MAJOR changes that the Beast Era introduces which never really got explored.
1. Maximals and Predacons instead of Autobots and Decepticons: While we know where the concept of Predacons from as it was originally a subfaction of Decepticons lead by Razorclaw we still have no clue who the first Maximals were or how that faction got started. It would be interesting to see a G1 style Maximal team to combat the Predacons and explain their origins.
2. Dinobots: BW Dinobot started out as a Predacon in series but switched sides and joined the Maximals. The thing is his name comes from Autobot origins and he's the only character like that. Sure we also have a Predacon Inferno but don't forget that he was also technically a Maximal originally so it makes a little more sense that his name would have Autobot origins. Dinobot didn't come from a Maximal stasis pod, he wasn't reprogrammed by the Predacons like Inferno was, he chose to join Megatron's team back on Cybertron but he also seems to have some unexplained connection to Grimlock's team.
3. Convoy Council: I actually explored this idea in my fan fiction though I Americanized it changing the name to the Council of Primes. Essentially besides Optimus Primal there are multiple characters in the Beast Era who all look like G1 Optimus Prime. In G1 Prime's don't all look like this.
But in the Beast Era we see this on multiple characters. The body types are different on all these characters but they all have that head design with only subtle little differences.
I included it in my fan fiction making an origin for the group cause I thought it was an interesting concept that didn't really have a proper origin. There's even a new version of Rodimus Prime where rather than being upgraded by the Matrix again he's completely rebuilt to have that head design.
4. Heinrad: Only one other character has ever been shown with the ability to stop time before Heinrad and that's Elita-One. While not a Convoy his rather unique ability kinda suggests a connection to Elita-One and I don't think it's ever explained how either one of them was able to do that.
5. Sparks, the Well of AllSparks, and the Matrix: A lot of the Beast Era dealt with this concept which NEVER EXISTED in G1 continuity. The closest equivalent to a Spark would of been a Laser Core and the closest equivalent to the AllSpark would be Vector Sigma. Oh and Cyberverse has already kinda retconned part of this explaining that Vector Sigma doesn't actually give Transformers life as it did in the G1 cartoon but is instead just used to program the AllSpark. We know Vector Sigma exists in the Beast Era because the Key to Vector Sigma makes an appearance in Beast Machines but it's unclear what role Vector Sigma plays after Beast Wars completely replaced it's original purpose with a totally new concept.
On top of all this the Well of AllSparks and the Matrix seem to be the same thing in Beast Wars. This thing.
Is not the Matrix, it's just some fancy holder for Optimus Prime's Spark.
This is the Matrix, a Transformers afterlife also called the Well of AllSparks where life both begins and ends. It's not even a physical object, it's a place. Considering how heavily the Autobot Matrix of Leadership plays a role in the plot of the movie and season 3 the entire story would change based on the changes Beast Wars made to what these things are.
Ultra Magnus... TAKE MY SPARK!
6. Alpha Trion and the Key to Vector Sigma: Speaking of the Key to Vector Sigma in Beast Machines, the fact that Tankor can duplicate the original key using the Plasma Energy Chamber render's Alpha Trion's sacrifice in the G1 cartoon completely meaningless. When the original Key is lost Alpha Trion states that he can act as a back up but in doing so he becomes one with Vector Sigma and essentially dies. But if they could of gone to the Plasma Energy Chamber to make a copy the entire time then Alpha Trion never had to do that.
7. Starscream's Ghost: The introduction of Starscream's immortal Spark in Beast Wars also completely changes the plot of the G1 "Ghost" episodes because it's now understood that Transformers have Sparks. There's also the fact that Starscream's Spark TIME TRAVELED and thus would have knowledge of the Maximals and the Predacons if/when he ever returned to his own time. There were technically TWO Starscreams in the episode Possession. The Spark inside of Waspinator who we know was killed by Galvatron and the Starscream still alive and in stasis on board the Ark. If G1S3 Starscream can time travel back to a time when his past self is still in stasis he could also have potentially time traveled back to season 1 or 2 of G1 possessed another Decepticon, warned himself about the future and completely change history even more.
8. Ravage: How the heck does he go from this?
G1 Ravage was little more than a mindless beast that lived inside Soundwave's chest and BW Ravage is actually a legitimate character with personality, a robot mode ect. These two are so different from each other that they shouldn't be the same character but some how are. Like forget trying to explain how G1 Ravage becomes BW Ravage because nothing would ever satisfy how the hell they're the same character. They'd essentially have to completely remake G1 Ravage to make him fit the character in Beast Wars.
Like make the beast cassettes into triple changers so that that Ravage can also have a proper robot mode like Rumble and Frenzy. Make him actually talk with that same Russian accent. Either give him a cloaking device or have him steal the cloaking device from Mirage at some point. That scene where the Autobots have Ravage locked in a cage and they purposely let him escape to set a trap for the Decepticons would of played out a whole lot differently if G1 Ravage wasn't too stupid to see their obvious bad acting.
9. Time Travel: Yeah I'm going there... The Maximals actually really suck at preserving the time line. There is all kinds of future technology from the wreckage of the Axalon, the Darksyde, and the corpses of the Maximals and Predacons who died during the Beast Wars that it's impossible for the Autobot and Decepticons to have never come across any of it. Also freaking WASPINATOR was left on Earth. There was a whole story about a giant sling shot but...
A. Waspinator is an idiot who also once claimed to be Shrapnel and Wanko the Sane so I really wouldn't trust anything his said as canon.
B. A giant sling shot would never generate enough force to allow him to leave the planet.
Essentially trapped on Prehistoric Earth with no way back to his own time and planet Waspinator's entire existence in the past would in of itself change the entire course of history. I could totally see him ending up as part of the G1 Insecticons team similar to the comics. He would end up fighting in the Great War and probably still being blow up all the time.
There's also the fact that for the brief moment Optimus Prime woke up from Stasis Lock and saw Optimal Optimus before falling back into stasis lock... which I don't think that would change much other than maybe Optimus having a throw away line about having a headache and a weird dream. Though that weird dream could later be confirmed to have actually happened when they meet Waspinator.
I seriously think a spin off following Waspinator from the end to Beast Wars till his return to Cybertron in Beast Machines would have him fighting in the Great War along with the Autobots and Decepticons and completely changing the history that we think we know.
10. Obsidian and Strika: The Maximals didn't immediately recognize them in their new Vehicon bodies but as soon as they learned their names it was suggested that they were actually Autobots who fought in the Great War... except that there never was any Obsidian or Strika in G1. Those were entirely new characters first introduced in Beast Machines but they were presented to us as if we should already know who they are. Essentially there's two completely brand new characters who have to now exist in G1 that never existed in G1. Hasbro has tried a few times to retcon these two into G1 but it never quite works mainly because the designs make no sense. They keep homaging how they looked in Beast Machines even though they more likely looked completely different as Autobots. They also for some reason keep making them into Decepticons seemingly forgetting that the only reason they followed Megatron is because he controlled Cybertron. This all suggests they would of been Autobots not Decepticons. Though it seems like they'll follow whoever has the most power on Cybertron so it's possible they could of been both Autobots or Decepticons at various points during the Great War. Like it seemed like the Decepticons had the most power up until the movie. In any case there's an entire history for these two we never got see.
I could keep going.
Saying that there would only be minor differences is like saying there's only minor differences between Star Trek the original series and the Star Trek reboot movies. We should really be dealing with a completely different time line.
Yes, that was my point.
Almost nothing you said is a change to any existing material, just things that are established by Beast Wars content but not totally fleshed out.
In the UK comics he was quite articulate and intelligent.
Yes, I was pointing this out to show how parts of Beat Wars were more consistent with the comics than the cartoon.
Separate names with a comma.