Should Hot Rod have been terminated for costing the Autobots their leader?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by TeamOptimus, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    No, which is the point. No Autobot directly caused any Decepticon death in the 86 movie.

    Uh, can I get a source on that? When is that ever shown or stated in the cartoon? It doesn’t seem all that special.

    Except it isn’t. Soundwave took at least two shots and walked away just fine.

    There was plenty of battle shown outside Megatron and Prime’s fight. Plenty of Autobot we’re still shooting and all of the Decepticons except Megatron himself were still moving as shown by the retreat. The battle was “silenced” for drama and to focus on their battle.

    I hesitate to use “skill and agility” to describe Thundercracker and Skywarp. Those two were always just thugs and seemed plenty tough to remain consistent foes in the cartoon. Just a shame their toys weren’t selling anymore in 1986.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  2. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Correction: No Autobot shot connected in the movie. Except Optimus. That is the point.
     
  3. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Did we see them get fired on?
    You can’t be serious
    24 hours of fighting and you are going to suggest they weren’t fired on?

    And yes, we saw them fired on

    You said he was Pristine
    The canon was part of his body
    It fell off

    That’s no longer Pristine
    ’I’m not the one here blindfolded
    Good to know we agree somewhere
    Did Optimus fire those shots?
    I’m pretty sure I was replying to a statement about Optimus
    That’s 2.......lol
    That was supposed to be “shooting a BB gun”’
    It was also supposed to be a joke but I think he got lost in translation because of the typo
    Nonsense I would even say double nonsense

    In fact one of the first scenes outside the city shows a decepticon getting injured ....Blitzwing

    Later we see Starscream injure himself

    There’s no way your going to convince me that after 24 hours of fighting many......any of them were completely uninjured

    And the idea is just so much of a stretch it’s laughable
     
  4. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Hit*

    Shenaningans. Megatron is capable of detaching and reataching his cannon. It has been shown multiple times. Its an external object in no ascociation to his well being. You are trying to grasp at straws here.


    More Straws....when did Blitzwing got injured....?And you are comparing Starscreams selfinflicted wound that had no bearing to his capability to near/death injuries....If you are looking at nonsense you have them right here in your reply m8.

    Plus I dont care to convince you of anything, what I speak of is plainly shown on screen. On the other hand convince me with unrefutable evidence (that is) that a single shot other than Primes landed on them.

    EDIT: And a bonus tidbit: You do understand that you try to rationalise 24 hours of warfare and not a single casualty over a 20 year period of war with no single casualty yes? (1984-2005).
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  5. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Yeah you really need to rewatch the film

    Eject or Rewind Shot Ravage in the leg,

    Springer, useing that’s launcher they pushed into position shot Devestator in the back

    Ultra Magnus shot and put a nice hole into Cyvlonus when he was piloted by Galvatron.....the animation and dialog even suggests he might have even his Galvatron inside the cockpit with the same shot

    Grimlock shot at both Cyclonus and 2 Sweeps with his fire breath....hitting all 3 causing one to crash
    Moving the bar I see
    You didn’t ask if they were hit

    Anyway see above
    Shenanigans on your part maybe

    We never saw, in the entire series, Megatron ever detach his back canon, we only saw it shift positions

    And I’m not even suggesting it effected his “well being”.....but it was an attached body part.....and just like losing a side mirror might not effect the “well being” or functions of your car, having that mirror knocked or means it is no longer Pristine

    You are the one trying to grasp at straws here my good sir
    For some reason the rest of that sentence didn’t post sorry

    Shrapnel was shot and injured by Kup when he moved Blitzwing tank gun to save Hotrod

    I’m sure you’ll try to tell me that it doesn’t count but who was aiming that thing?

    I compared nothing about the injuries

    You said ( paraphrasing ) “Not a single con was injured during the fighting”

    Self-inflicted or not near death or not that scene proved your statement wrong

    So it can’t be nonsense If it refutes your words

    And your the 2nf person in as many days to say they aren’t trying to convince others........but still are trying

    Look there’s no reason to get bothered by it, this is supposed to be fun right?

    But you are speaking out of hero worship or nostalgia

    You want that evidence un-refutable evidence that shot other landed other than Primes.....

    upload_2019-8-14_5-12-12.jpeg

    upload_2019-8-14_5-13-17.jpeg


    I can post the ones of Springer shooting Devestator in the back if you like
    Well that’s A different debate entirely lol

    But on a serious note.....who’s to say Buzzsaw wasn’t killed in those 20 years.....or was he fired and replaced by Ratbat ha
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  6. ThrustJan

    ThrustJan Well-Known Member

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    On Thundercrakcker is a valid good point :)  True is a slender seeker but I considered that being one of 3 main air force commanders,his body was a lot stronger than normal seekers so he could have substained 1 hit,not more, by Optimus absolutely without dying ,just suffering a lot ,in a true war as despicted there. Then it's true another thing,I tend to give less importance to scenes where Thundercraker reaches Astrotrain I just remember him being shot and later ejected,with a similar wound he couldn't have running so fast,just dragging.
    Instead about Soundwave healed,maybe is a very strong guy,just after Megatron one of most resistant, so I like to thinking that is not just for selling his toys if writers wanted to show this detail.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  7. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Or in the case of Soundwave it was a glancing hit maybe.... Also I wouldnt call TC a commander. TC was nothing more than a grunt, Starscream was the aircommander.

    Rewinds pee shooter vs Optimus Ion blaster which Seperated Devastator on one freaking shot....nice comparison there LOL.

    A missile without propulsion capability that didnt even made a scratch....such a powerfull weapon! /s

    Just because Galvatron got pissed at his quarry fighting back doesnt mean he was hurt...Stop conjuring things up.....

    Even Willie killed a Sweep so?

    Finished with the irrelevant situations? What has any of these to do with Prime? Nothing. Not the same class (for a lack of a better word) not the same skill, not the same firepower comparing oranges to water melons.......

    I didnt ask, or moved anything....Word play is your domain in an attempt to defend an indefensible position grasping at straws and comparing them to irrelevant events...

    I didnt say backcannon I said fusion cannon.....

    And you are wrong. Ill find the episode IF I find time, and if memory serves its on the episode with Megatron bringing Cybertron to earth. And its another thing that has nothing to do with the subject....Stay focused man.....

    EDIT: Yep, both into that and the second episode....

    EDIT2: War of the dinobots...

    In other words: Wordplay to attempt to win an argument that doesnt exist LOL.

    EDIT: The very second episode. In the Ruby crystal mines.

    Erhm....Blitzwing? You even see the targeting solution...Kup just wanted the shot to miss....But even if I give you the kill, do you realise that again you are trying to grasp into something that has to do nothing with anything? What does it matter in the arguement if Kup did off the insecticon, other than the fact that I might be wrong into this? Nothing.....

    Ill repeat to you for the twentieth time (I was talking about it with you in the past didnt I?) That I am NOT a fan of Optimus....So stop another silly conjecture of yours in its tracks.....

    Now, try to focus on the arguement and not into completely nonessential things that have nothing to do with the outcome and for the love of God, you wont win an argument with wordplay. You will only tire your reader. Unless ofc thats your strategy, to tire the other guy with nonarguements till he simply walks away...Seems to be that way so far.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  8. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    I just wish that the owners of Transformers could make a 90-minute movie re-make of the battle of Autobot City, partly so we can have closure on who lived and died, and which transformers were the most effective in battle.

    In it, I would like a focus on when Devastator first breaches Autobot City in the evening, till when Optimus arrives the next day, this is where a number of implied deaths could have occurred.

    What I find interesting is that all the known Decepticons (apart from Insecticons) seem to be in reasonable shape when Optimus Prime arrives, which seems at odds with a siege on Autobot City and the fierceness of battle.

    I think that maybe there were significantly more Insecticon clones were in the battle than were shown in the movie. I also think (off-camera) that may be an army of Decepticon sentinels were sent from Cybertron (or from the Decepticon undersea base) and sent to attack Autobot City.

    Also in Starscream's Coronation only one Reflector unit seems to be visible, I wish that whole scene could be adjusted so that the likes of Nova and Acid Storm could be in the shot compared to Thundercracker and Skywarp.
     
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  9. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    You need to reach a little higher to get that Apple

    It was a direct hit

    Moving the bar again

    Already told you not making comparisons on weapons or injuries

    You really need to rewatch the film
    upload_2019-8-14_14-50-18.png
    upload_2019-8-14_14-50-49.png

    A propulsion system
    1) I said suggest
    2) he made a sound that sounded like a “hurt” sound

    And either way that’s secondary
    Cyclonus was shot with a very damage

    You were wrong
    So, you admit other autobots hit their targets

    Thanks for admitting you were incorrect

    Finished making incorrect claims?

    Prime’s weapon was never shown to be all that powerful, I’ll give you skill but that’s all you got
    You most certainly did

    You claimed that not the one auto bot hit their targets.....The evidence proves you wrong

    “Word play”....sorry but no, maybe you should chose your words more carefully

    You need to go back and re-read what’s been posted.....in never said “fusion” at all

    In fact, I was the one that brought up the cannon, in reply to your “Pristine” claim.....and I said back cannon

    it most certainly has to do with the subject so I’m not the one who needs to stay focused

    Sure I’m wrong

    I wait for you to find it
    Where’s the evidence?
    At least post s pic of a time stamp
    Blitz aimed at Roddy.....kup caused it to his a bug

    Even if it wasn’t his plan it was his doing

    “Intent follows the bullet”
    Kuo is responsible for where that bullet went
    I don’t think that was me but it’s good to know thank you

    And there’s no word play here, all I’ve done is focus on the argument and the word you have chosen......And the ones you chose lead you to a failing argument

    Maybe you should’ve spent more time picking the right words to make your point other then making general claims that were very easy to prove wrong

    Other autobots did indeed fire on and hit their targets

    No autobot kills
     
  10. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    In my headcanon, Buzzsaw was terminally damaged and had to be built as Ratbat, but if you (or anyone) has anything better, I would like to hear it.
     
  11. DashCourageous

    DashCourageous Greetings Programs!

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    ....Han shot first.


    :D 
     
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  12. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    War Dawn. Optimus flat out slaughtered Decepticons. It was still combat, though, and not the kind of execution that the OP is referencing.
     
  13. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I have some serious question to the level of “life” those guys had. Aside from about one line of dialog and maybe one scene of animation those guys seemed to be not much different then what we say by the green dudes in the key to vector sigma

    We could open that debate if you like but I’m not convinced by it since it was a one shot deal and out of character

    Was an awesome scene on the other hand
     
  14. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    I can't see drones just conveniently showing up for one event before fading out. There's a fair share of handwavium in the G1 cartoon as it is, but that seems a massive stretch. That, and reactions from the Decepticons seems far more sentient than simple drones like the Mysterio model we saw in KtVS.
     
  15. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I’ll just say this

    Asides from the seekers and reflectors (that were drone like themselves) every drone/generic we got showed up for one event and then faded out. The green drones and the ones the autobots fixed in “the key to vector sigma” are a great example of that

    The reactions you speak of , in I guess Wright was when the guardians arrived, consistent maybe 4 words over less then 30 (?) seconds and what may be described as a shocked face......

    while the rest of the time we see them not one speak again, And their faces are completely emotionless

    Even the Mysterio models you referring to , with no faces, displayed anger when they were fighting the other drones

    Sure there’s s lot of hand waving, but there’s also a lot of “reading more then what’s there” by fans

    Calling those guys examples of sentient beings based on what we saw in that episode is a stretch within itself
     
  16. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    Devcon was one and done, hardly a workable metric as far as quantity of appearances.

    The vocal responses were far more emotional than simple responses. See Telatraan 1 for great examples of emotionless responses.

    Speaking of emotional expressions. STERN is one of them, which is what I'd describe the look on their face as. Also watch as they are gunned down, some faces contort in pain, at least one is expressing what I can only describe as horror. It's damn near exactly Rachet's face in the Movie when he's getting gunned down.

    I see nothing that says they AREN'T sentient. Hell, I'd be willing to argue that the Guardian Robots were even sentient.
     
  17. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Quantity of appearance is not the measure that I’m talking about....and that should be clear by what I stated.

    The vocal responses you talk about again only amount to less then 5 words.....if I understand your use of the expression STERNNESS......I saw nothing but blank faces for 99% of the time they were on screen

    The junk yard robot First-Aid made friends with wasn’t on scream long either but his actions/reactions make it clear he’s not just a lifeless drone.Not so much with those purple guys

    I see little more then “artistic license” with the so called expressions....sorry I just don’t see enough to be convinced they were more then just generic lifeless fillers

    Also, in war dawn if you recall, when Megatron orders them to transform and attack........you see troops on the vehicles transform..... you then see the vehicles transform

    Later I’m the episode Silverbolt called those vehicles “transport DRONES

    Unless you want to argue the convince of drones looking just like the living or that silverbolt was wrong I’d say that’s a strong evidence of them being drones
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  18. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Number One in Boogieland Moderator

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    Let's steer back on course guys. Not sure what Devcon has to do with Hot Rod intervening in the Prime/Megatron fight.
     
  19. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Highly agree with everything. Especially since most of the 'deaths' were on drafts already.

    Ok. So? What bar to move?

    And? Facts are facts...even when there are exceptions (Soundwave).


    Pssssssss....Wooowwwwww much impressive so great! So I missed a tidbit and made an incorrect asessment regarding a useless weapon....Now you must have won the argument.....
    What damage my dear man? He even suggested to gut Ultra Magnus....He got some scratches that is all....

    .......Are you that desperate? Dont answer that, we know the answer already else we wouldnt be discussing irrelevant details instead of the major facts in the movie. Next time you suggest someone watch something from an irrelevant mistake, make sure that you have watched it yourself. There is no instance in which Wheelie hit anything or shot anything in the movie except Grimlock....I was referring to the decent on Saturn and the fact that deaths are only a convenient plot twist.....


    Except you know....when he disabled Devastator in one shot....and gunned down all those Decepticons which you pretend it didnt happen....




    As to all that, and whatever else you post from now on: I am going to completely ignore it. You are persistent in your fallacies to the point where discussing with you holds no meaning. If you want to search for evidence its on you. You are the one denying reality on multiple levels. The episodes on which Megatron has his fussion cannon detached are there I told you which ones they are, feel free to watch them. I am not your errand boy.
    This whole discussion is childish in the extreme and I wont take any more part in it: You dont care about the discussion itself but just to be proven right, you ignore facts, you ignore developments, and desperately cling to tid bits that hold no meaning. Sorry but this is not either engaging or fun, its frankly quite infuriating and plans on using this sentiment to evoke a 'win' out of frustration rather than conversation and rasing valid actual arguments. Can I ask you if you dont mind how old you are just out of curiosity?
     
  20. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    You’ve been moving quite a few in this conversation

    Which I admit is out of character for you
    Ooo blue
    Sarcasm doesn’t suit u well
    Particularly when you were in a error

    Scratch my ass,He had a clear hole in the side....which is damage

    The fact that he continue to function proves nothing, I had a car with 20 holes it continued running.
    Seems you are
    You were the one who made the claims in question that ended up being incorrect, and now you’re trying to move the bar by insinuating we are not discussing the so-called “major details”

    If you felt details like “no autobots hit their targets” was irrelevant....then you shouldn’t have brought it up

    Not really sure that difference it makes whether his target was friend or foe or that it was in the film since it was you that decided to add that tidbit
    I don’t pretend it didn’t happen

    But it only happened once and it hardly caused any damage. As you pointed out before “ A convenient plot twist “ To finish off the episode more than it was any indication of how powerful that weapon was

    “As to all that,” You’re just gonna have to admit that you needed to choose your words a bit better here. It is You not I That is denying reality, Not to mention that you’re trying to revise your comments just to save face

    Go back and read all the post, his fusion cannon was never part of the post you replied to

    If you Don’t want to feel like an errand boy here I’ll do it for you
    Back Cannon
    Not Fusion cannon

    You need to read more carefully as well before you argue a point never in the debate

    Now do you have any examples of his back cannon being detached?
    I’m willing to consider it may have happened once and I don’t remember

    But if you don’t have an example then you Gotta admit it being knocked off means he was no longer in pristine condition

    And I really don’t have any interest in a “win” as you seem to think, the point is you’re making these grand Declarations about who shot/hit whom and the conditions of characters that don’t leave much room for interpretation and your claims don’t exactly fit the facts

    Now if you want to have a discussion about the development of the series and film and what message the creators might’ve been trying to deliver I’m willing to have that.

    But our conversation when you replied to a very basic and clear statement I made.....”no autobots killed a decepticon in the film”....and that still holds true.

    Simple but true

    And to answer your last question I’m closer to 50 then I would like to admit
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019 at 4:57 PM