Should Hot Rod have been terminated for costing the Autobots their leader?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by TeamOptimus, Apr 16, 2019 at 10:12 PM.

  1. TeamOptimus

    TeamOptimus Well-Known Member

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    I don't think people realize the extent of his blunder. He disobeyed orders (treason) and ends up getting their leader killed. A PRIME. He could've cost them everything. And who's to say he wouldn't pull something like that again? He already had a reputation for being impulsive and reckless. He doesn't truly care about the Autobots or following any sort of structure, he's usually off doing his own thing and disregarding the more important things. So in truth, they should've cracked down on him long before he committed treason, but after getting Optimus killed, they should've put a stop to it right then and there. Ultra Magnus should've had him locked up, then tried in front of an Autobot council. It's a military situation, so his treason could've easily ended with him being executed.
     
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  2. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Number One in Boogieland Moderator

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    I don't think disobeying orders qualifies as treason. He didn't betray anyone or anything, just took a situation into his own hands. Ill-advised? Sure. But not treason.
     
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  3. raindance773

    raindance773 Well-Known Member

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    Terminated as in executed? No. Terminated as in impeached or removed from office? You could make that argument for general incompetence as the Prime, but not because he tried to help Optimus. Soldiers unfortunately die in war. Those split second decisions echo for years, but nothing he did was treasonous. If anything, it was the opposite because he alone was brave enough (or foolish enough) to run to Prime’s aid and there were some serious Autobot heavy hitters there (UM, Grimlock, and Springer), and none of them did (for whatever logical reason like they were engaged in their own fights).

    Also, it’s hard to make the case for the Transformers having an actual military structure late in any iteration of their war, as in the case of the Battle for Autobot City. So much of their population is dead by that point, and there have been such substantial losses on both sides that’s it’s really a pretty ragtag bunch in either camp by then.

    Plus, wrongful intent is a requirement for treason in federal and civil law. Hot Rod definitely didn’t have wrongful intent. Further, under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (in the US), for actual military personnel, treason has to meet very specific criteria, one of which is the intent to overthrow the one in authority over that mutineer or seditionist. Again, Hot Rod didn’t do that; his goal was to aid his superior, not kill him. Tragic it ended that way, but if Optimus hadn’t died (to sell toys), Hot Rod would have been commended (and maybe slapped upside the head for not listening to an older and wiser ‘bot).

    Lastly, you could argue Kup’s order to stay away was at best foolish, and at worst cowardly and unlawful itself (it fails the common sense test for orders - no, don’t give your superior a tactical advantage against a brutal killer. That order is asinine, and no rational person would reasonably expect it to be followed). Plus it came when HR was already rushing in, too late and too little. Was Kup even in HR’s chain of command? Is there even a CoC? Why wasn’t Kup running to help too, as killing or capturing Megatron is probably near the top of the Autobot cause’s main to do list. Megatron is everything to the Decepticons. He is their center of gravity. Remove him from the game board and they all go to poo.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2019 at 11:02 PM
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  4. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Yes

    And while your at it lets kill Peter Parker for getting his Uncle Ben killed

    And kill Bruce Wayne for playing around and running down that ally getting his parents killed

    Optimus got himself killed by allowing Megatron to reach that gun, which Megatron had in his hands before Hotrod interfered

    Drama much?

    Just obeying orders is not treason, could be considered dereliction of duty

    Treason is to be a traitor

    Yeah just like most children

    Usually off doing his own thing?

    We only saw him do that once
    And got all we know that was his day off

    This entire post was opinionated and based on unfounded information

    Optimus was a warrior fighting for over 9 million years, he should’ve known better than to allow Megatron any opportunity to get the upper hand

    Hotrod I was a kid rookie, with all the best intent and trying to help out his idol

    Sure he screwed up, but you don’t get killed for screwing up trying to do a good thing
     
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  5. TeamOptimus

    TeamOptimus Well-Known Member

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    You make some good points but Hot Rod wasn’t like a five year old kid who didn’t know better. He’s plenty seasoned too.
     
  6. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Where’s your evidence to say he was “seasoned”?

    Let me give you a hint, there isn’t any because there was no fiction for him at the time that predates the film

    He wasn’t season at all, the story was written to mirror the story of Luke Skywalker

    Hotrod was written to be like a teenager that was still “wet under the ears”, pretty new to fighting, trying Desperately to prove himself to those that he idolized

    He may not have been 5 years old, but he was the equivalent of 13 to 17 With a little to no experience
     
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  7. jackisking

    jackisking Well-Known Member

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    Whose running the Autobots,Daenerys? That sounds a little to much, especially when you consider he was trying to help, it was more immaturity versus treason.
     
  8. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    Jesus, the conclusions some fans come to when the melodrama of years ago gestates for this long.

    It’s like that Godawful “what if” comic IDW did once where Prime didn’t die, and it read like a pissy fan’s angst wet dream where everyone treats Hot Rod like shit for no reason.

    Examples?

    We have no idea what experience Hot Rod had prior to that movie.

    Nothing Hot Rod did even comes close to treason. To execute him for what he did is borderline fascism.

    Y’know, I’m glad you pointed this out, and I wish more people brought this up. The showdown between Prime and Megs was trite as can be, and made no sense logically. Why wouldn’t Hot Rod, Kup, and anyone else help Prime? Why did Prime just stand there like an oaf kinda moving his gun back and forth instead of, y’know, tackling Megatron himself and taking him down together with Hot Rod? Optimus wasn’t that badly damaged at that point, but Megatron was.

    When you think about it, Hot Rod was the only one thinking sensibly. His only mistake was, arguably, jumping Megs instead of shooting him. Then again, he was behind Megatron, so there was risk of hitting Prime if his shot missed or Megs dodged.

    Hot Rod gets shit on so much, yet he was basically framed by the writers for Prime’s death.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 12:02 AM
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  9. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    This is the kind of thread that makes me question coming to a TF forum at all.
     
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  10. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    So true
     
  11. Ikkstakk

    Ikkstakk Well-Known Member

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    Is this a recent trend, these attempts to apply logic to a kids' cartoon? What the hell?
     
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  12. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    I’d argue no logic is being applied in the original post.
     
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  13. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Applying logic to a kids cartoon is one thing.

    Trying to equate a stupid mistake to treason.......I’m almost speechless
     
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  14. jackisking

    jackisking Well-Known Member

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    I took it them getting involved , would just cause them to get in Prime's way. Prime is one thing, but the average autobot is getting swatted like a mosquito going up against Megatron. Which is what ended up happening, as Hot Rod came up short and got captured.
     
  15. Ikkstakk

    Ikkstakk Well-Known Member

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    I mean, if this was real life, a hotshot soldier who got the general killed would probably face disciplinary action. But this is a kids' cartoon, so that hotshot soldier became the new general and you're not supposed to think about it. You're supposed to buy his toy and drive it around on the floor and make pew pew noises and smile. That's all.
     
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  16. TeamOptimus

    TeamOptimus Well-Known Member

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    He disobeyed orders and directly got a Prime killed though. That’s not just a simple mistake, that could’ve cost them the entire war. The fact that he becomes a Prime is almost an insult to Optimus’s legacy and the other Autobots who risked their lives every day fighting Megatron, Autobots who were brave and selfless while Hot Rod was off goofing around and not taking the conflict seriously.
     
  17. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    What order?

    Kup told him to “stay out of it”
    not much of an order, Sounds more like a suggest to let handle it “man-to-man”

    And I repeat, megatron had his hand on the gun before Hotrod interfered

    That was optimus fault

    Hot rod saw Megatron going for that gun, Optimus did not, Hot rod was only trying to help, Maybe he should’ve just scream something out instead of getting into the mix but there really was no order a broken

    It was just a stupid mistake, it cost them big but still it was a simple mistake
    Again, drama much?

    how can you jump to that conclusion with only the first two or three minutes of the film?

    I’m sorry but you have absolutely little to back that up
     
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  18. Fafnir72

    Fafnir72 Well-Known Member

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    If only Optimus wasn't so well made "chrasimatic", full of gravitas that really struck a chord with the fans, no one would have cared but that d@mg final battle, awesomesauce "Touch" OST and that fight choreograph by Nelson Shin and heart wrenching final moments....all but doomed Hotrod.
     
  19. OmegaTaco Supreme

    OmegaTaco Supreme Shut up Blur! ~The Rude Awakening of Optimus TFW2005 Supporter

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    Its the reason why Ultra Magnus didnt give a crap they were shot down. Payback Roddy! Take those dumb Dinobots with you too.

    [​IMG]








    Just kidding. He though he was doing the right thing. If anything he put himself into a dangerous situation probably not expecting to make it out of it, but then got bamboozled. He should have pulled a Speed

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 12:54 AM
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  20. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    I think you need to look up what “directly” means.

    Because he didn’t. He indirectly got Prime killed, but Megatron shooting Prime and Prime doing fuckall in the situation is what directly got him killed.

    Also, there was no order. Kup shouted at him, long after he’d already ran off.

    If this was real life that General wouldn’t have taken on the enemy leader in a one on one fight with no backup where he easily could’ve been ambushed and then freeze up the moment things go awry.

    Hot Rod also saved Cybertron.
     
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