Seacons and Nightbeat Update

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by Petes Robot Convention, May 23, 2008.

  1. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    Maybe... Maybe not. Until someone made one and had a prototype and possible cost, it would be hard to tell.
     
  2. Lumpy

    Lumpy Taylor Swift Action Master Super Mod

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    there ya go...
     
  3. Velcrohead

    Velcrohead Banned

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    Assuming these hypothetical boxes were made to display several figures, the prospective buyer would also have to have the whole set to make owning the box worthwhile. For example, let's say a box were made to contain/showcase all of the '84 cars... I have Prowl and Smokescreen, but I don't have Bluestreak or Mirage... and having the box only further showcases two holes in my collection.

    These kind of boxes would only appeal, IMHO, to completists. And given that 99.9% of my collection is out of box anyway, having such would be an afterthought, though I do admit they're a cool concept.
     
  4. Omegax80

    Omegax80 Using a Positive Rifle

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    Not surprised the number are lower, considering that Airrazor and Astrotrain are STILL available on the club store website. Maybe with a lower number and a higher price tag they think it will appear more collectible... I dunno. I really, REALLY wanted those Seacons... but $120 shipped? I completed my G1 set for MUCH less than that.

    It's not like these sell out so quickly... I bought my Astrotrain & Airrazor when they had some sort of holiday sale on them...
     
  5. Galaxy Convoy

    Galaxy Convoy Well-Known Member

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    I think it'll sell, but possibly not as well as they'd hoped. There's just too many factors going against it. Vintage originals already out there, a possible G1 Encore reissue, and lastly the price. No matter how you slice it, $120 is a little on the high side, especially when you consider that Astrotrain actually had remolding and extra minicon costs included in his price, not to mention being a more intricate mold than a G1 brick. Then again, they did make 500 more of him than they are the Seacon set, so that probably offset things a little. Who knows, maybe Astrotrain would've been $120 too if not for the higher production run.
     
  6. Laser_Optimus

    Laser_Optimus I can do this all day! TFW2005 Supporter

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    That'd be a sweet idea, but I'm not sure how feasible it is. I suppose it could be done, but I have to say that it would only appeal to completionists. Myself, if I were to buy the hypothetical "TF Animated Wave 1" that you speak of (I assume we're talking deluxe & voyager here) I'd have at least two holes in my set (I have no interest in Cybertron Prime or Megatron) and a possible third (I may or may not pick up Voyager Bulkhead as I haven't decided if I want to have the Voyager or Leader Class). So... really, I wouldn't be that interested in them.

    Yeah, they were originally planned to be an Energon exclusive for Wally World, but Wal-Mart decided they didn't want it because of the glut of Universe exclusives (Tiger Camo Ruination, Sunstorm w/Perceptor, RID Side Burn, RID Prowl, RID Spychangers, etc.) that they had already taken that weren't moving off the shelves (arguably they were rushed because Hasbro had nothing planned when Wal-Mart demanded to be given exclusives of this property after Armada had done so well and that probably had something to do with them not selling)... so that left them without a home (along with Astrowarp who became Astrotrain... though he had been planned as a TRU exclusive and god knows why he was canceled... probably something similar...). Hasbro tried for awhile to get them a home, but no one seemed to want them.

    People only started clamoring for the Seacons to be done by the TFCC after they gave us Astrotrain (essentially Astrowarp with a remolded head... only difference was Astrowarp was supposed to come with a repaint Requiem Blaster, but Astrotrain came with a repainted Giant Planet minicon team, because the Requiem Blaster team's molds had been used to pot). So, yeah, essentially people got what they wanted, but I think they were expecting it to be a whole lot less.

    Well, I believe it's been mentioned somewhere (and I believe by Pete) that the price of production doesn't change much whether it's 1,000 or 10,000 pieces. Which I take to mean that until they order over 10,000 units they're not getting much of a savings on production that could be passed down to us in our purchasing costs. Now, if Pete could pop in here and clarify some of that for us (I'm sure it's been done before though... so he may be tired of retreading the same old thing...) that'd be great.

    Personally, while I feel the price is a little on the high side... keep in mind that the packaging for the Seacons is going to be much bigger than the packaging for Astrotrain (probably similar in size to the Botcon sets boxes and the old G1 combiner gift set packages) and I'm guessing that's why he's so much more expensive than Astrotrain even though he had a new head and an extra minicon team factored into his cost. We've heard from Hasbro many times that packaging isn't cheap and that's their packaging... so I'd guess that the ubber packaging that we get from FP (what with it's foam inserts and all) is even more expensive.
     
  7. Loosecannon

    Loosecannon Cos I know I'm right...

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    Well being in the Uk it looks like this:

    $120 for the toys
    $40 to join the club (presuming its not more for overseas)
    $?? Shipping (as this isnt confirmed yet)
    $30-40 customs/import fees


    Even at $70-80 I would buy.


    With the extra on top - I just cant justify - thats getting to be the same price I could get Encore Omega and Metroplex for!
     
  8. flywheels

    flywheels Decepticon Assault Team Veteran

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    While I usually buy everything exclusive in nature, I may have to take a back seat on the Seacons as it's a lot of money for something so "ordinary". I'm sure the packaging will be top notch, but if I were to spend $120 I'd rather put it towards something else right now.

    Nightbeat on the other hand, consider it sold. Not my favorite mold, but I've like what they've done with it.

    If they're not letting you combine these for shipping it must mean they have a good idea that they aren't going to arrive from the China factories together or anywhere close together.
     
  9. Laser_Optimus

    Laser_Optimus I can do this all day! TFW2005 Supporter

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    Yeah, that's pretty much what Pete said on the shipping. But he also mentioned that's only if you preorder as if you preorder they'll ship each one as it arrives. Though, if you wait for them both (assuming that one or both don't sell out through preorder or club store) to get into the club store than you can order both and get combined shipping.

    However, there's a pole going on right now at the TFCC website that is asking about holding off on shipping Nightbeat (like a month or so) so that they can ship the Seacons with him when they arrive (I guess Nightbeat is going to arrive first). This way you'll be able to get combined shipping. The way the pole is going it looks as if it'll be happening this way... which will get me more interested in ordering if that's the case...
     
  10. permie

    permie Well-Known Member

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    Impossible. Our Hasbro deluxes would be $50 then. Or they're doing it wrong.

    If they were limited on purpose (keeping the run low for collectors or something interested in rarity) that would at least make sense.
     
  11. stad

    stad Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. Even the deluxes ship far in excess of 10,000 units. If every Wal-Mart just in the U.S. got only one, that would still be what, 3,500-4,500? And they are getting far more than just one. And they are not the only store getting them.
     
  12. Aaron

    Aaron Master of Crystalocution Moderator Content Contributor

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    I'm not surprised at the costs, though it's at the high end of what I expected. I'm going to wait on the two at once pre-order though. At those prices saving the bit on shipping is going to go a lot longer.
     
  13. Beastbot X

    Beastbot X Eye-Goon > Perceptor

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    You're VASTLY underestimating the run of mass-retail products. I'm pretty sure at least 80-90,000 are made of each toy, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's 100,000+.
     
  14. Aaron

    Aaron Master of Crystalocution Moderator Content Contributor

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    Easily, especially if you take into account overseas sales.
     
  15. soundwaveCA

    soundwaveCA Veteran

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    Ya that's an easy pass, $75 tops maybe for the Seacons in those colors otherwise I'll stick with my God Neptune thank you. Nightbeat does not look good at all and being a repaint of Energon Hot Shot doesint help either.
     
  16. permie

    permie Well-Known Member

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    You're right in that I pulled this figure out of my ass, since I don't work in the business, but 100,000 is just as pulled out of ass as 10,000 as the point where the production cost decreases per unit (unless someone has historical data to contribute).

    http://www.allspark.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t34225.html

    according to this thread, Treadbolt/Rapid Run/Ultra Magnus (Energon) had a production run of 10,000 -- and those were available at standard prices in the main line.

    More from that thread:

    "I seem to recall, over the years, that employees at the relevant toystores would post that RID Scourge and TM Blue Rattrap each had production runs of 10-12,000. Those of course were store exclusives, so we're probably talking at least one order of magnitude less than mass retail. And in my area, they sure did vanish quickly."

    Again, standard prices. Repainted but otherwise unchanged molds.

    I'm not saying I definitively know the answers as to why it's so expensive, but I smell bullshit when FP says they can't bring the price down. I also smell bullshit when someone who doesn't work in the toy biz comes to defend it. The most likely scenario is without the broader support of the Hasbro production teams they can't leverage as many of the production costs. But since the numbers of the runs seem to be similar, I am skeptical that they are 1/3rd or 1/4th or less as efficient as Hasbro.
     
  17. G.B. Blackrock

    G.B. Blackrock Autobot Ally

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    In another thread, I made a comment about "working smarter, not harder." I have no doubt that FP is working their tails off. And, frankly, I don't think they're trying to pull anything over on anyone. I think they're doing as best as they can. Or, rather, as best as they know how. I can't help but think that there's a way to keep costs down while delivering a quality product that they haven't thought of.

    However, that's not to say that I know what it is. It's only to say that I really do think they're not trying to deceive anyone here.
     
  18. permie

    permie Well-Known Member

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    That's fair, in general I don't think people try to "pull anything over" either, but it's easy to rationalize "the way it is" if its the way you know how to do it, and everyone wants to make a living/be successful financially.

    I found some data at the bottom of the thread; it relates more to botcon exclusives, but interesting read.

    http://mysite.verizon.net/NicodemusLegend/datasheet.htm
     
  19. Laser_Optimus

    Laser_Optimus I can do this all day! TFW2005 Supporter

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    Like others have stated. I think you're grossly underestimating how many mass retail figures get produced for Hasbro. When you factor every that every figures shows up in multiple waves and that many stores get each wave in many many times... well, I don't have numbers for you because anything I stated would be pulled out of my ass, but I would bet that it's much greater than the numbers that FP produces their figures in.

    On the issue of Energon Treadbolt, Rapid Run & Ultra Magnus... I would hazard a guess (I don't think any of us actually work in the buisness so it's all conjecture) that Hasbro can get major reductions on the stuff that they produce to the amount of buisness that they do. I'm sure that FP can't say the same.

    Honestly, I don't work in the buisness so I can only speculate and tell you what has been stated on such matters. The fact is if that Pete comes on here and says something (and I'll be the first to admit that he's good at 'damage control' as that's been a complaint of mine about information we recieve from FP for awhile) I see no reason to ever believe that he's been untruthful in anything that he's ever said. So, if he says that price of production doesn't change between 1,000 or 10,000 units I'm rather inclind to believe him. Like I stated... it's very possible that Hasbro doesn't get charged as much for their smaller production runs simply because of the vast quantities they do on everything else (ie: discounts due to all their larger orders and such). It's also worth a note that any store exclusive figure has a smaller run and in most cases these repaints sell for a cheaper price than their regular retail versions (ie: Target two pack of a voyager and deluxe sold at the voyager price). Really, I don't pretend to have the answers, but their is enough information to make an educated guess.

    Also, like I stated before... I'm sure that the collector oriented packaging also has something to do with FP's costs as it's sure not to be all in the production.
     
  20. G.B. Blackrock

    G.B. Blackrock Autobot Ally

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    Heh, heh. I'm quite familiar with that page. It's mine.