Scramble City 2.0

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by SaberPrime, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

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    I know some people don't like the proportions of FoC Bruticus with them all being Deluxe figures but I had this idea to make that work as a plus for future combiners.

    I think everyone really likes the Scramble City type combiners because you can assemble the limbs any way you want. The torso however has always been fixed to the team's leader. As long as they're all deluxe figures anyway why not work it so all 5 figures can be interchanged instead of only the limbs. The proportions would be even more off if the leader was a Voyager as his arm or leg mode would be longer than any of the other figures. You wouldn't really want one leg to be a voyager and the other to be a deluxe, it wouldn't stand properly. And this idea would allow for even more combiner combiner combinations when you can use any of the limbs as torsos. Hell if you wanted too, it would be kinda silly but you could do it, you could buy 5 of the same character and be able to combine him into a gestalt.

    There's also the Seacons which each of the limbs also had a weapon mode. Though I personally prefer the concept of the individual characters having combining weapons to having a 6th member as a glorified target master still it allows for more play options.

    So what if Hasbro made updated versions of all the original combiner teams in this style. Even the ones who weren't originally Scramble City combiners. Devastator for example would be updated so all 6 members have torso, arm, leg, and weapon modes. His standard combined mode, the one that would be on box art, would be Scrapper as the Right Leg, Bonecrusher as the Left Arm, Mixmaster as the Left Leg, Scavenger as the Right Arm just like the original. Hook would be the torso and Long Haul would be in weapon mode which is part of the change from the original. You could switch any of them around and combine them as you see fit. Other combiner teams would also be updated with the same combination abilities plus every team would have a new member to act as their default weapons.

    And just for the heck of it they could still have all the individual character's weapons combine into a weapon for the gestalt so you have two options for weapons, the combined weapons or the 6th team member. The Gestalt could even wield both at the same time if you wanted.

    Now if you're still turned off the idea because of the torso being the same size as the limbs and would rather just have the leaders as the torso at all times I'm thinking just the team leaders could also have Voyager size figures with 4 modes. Robot, vehicle, torso, and their original base modes. (The base modes would be added to characters who didn't originally have them.) They would be able to use the Deluxe figures as limbs so you get a well proportioned gestalt. The Base Modes would also be able to combine with each other as sort of a city play set.

    While I'm on the subject of proportion I'm also kinda thinking about having all the other characters come in smaller versions that only have robot, vehicle, and weapon modes. So your Deluxe Gestalt arm doesn't have to hold up another Deluxe as a weapon. The smaller figures would also be better proportioned to use with the Voyager Base modes. Their weapon modes could be mounted at points on the base modes, or they could be displayed in robot mode operating weapons that come with the Voyagers, or they could be in vehicle mode driving on the "roads" of the bases.

    Basically it's all the fun of the original Scramble City combines plus more! Well maybe not all the fun, I kinda doubt we'll see updated versions of Fortress Maximus or Trypticon to go along with these updated combiners and their base modes. I was kinda thinking the Base Modes could just connect with each other instead of with a cityformer.

    All this being said, it's probably unlikely that ANY of this would happen. However, please keep the discussion to weather or not you would like to see it happen and not about the likelihood that Hasbro will ever do it. I'd like to keep this thread from turning into 100 reasons why Hasbro won't or can't make good combiners.

    Oh and I have some ideas as to who the new team members might be.

    Terrorcons: Cruellock, I think the name and beast mode fits in with the other original Terrorcons.

    Combaticons: Well they were originally built by Starscream. Maybe in this updated version Starscream also upgraded his own body to combine with his new Combaticon army.

    Technobots: I would say the same as above but a T-Rex doesn't really fit in with a bunch of futuristic vehicles. Starscream as a military jet fits in with the Combaticons just fine but I don't see Grimlock being a good match for these guys. However Wheeljack built Grimlock so he could fill in the 6th member slot. Still not the greatest fit but better than a T-Rex.

    Protectobots: I'm thinking Boulder. Rescue Bots are loosely based on the Protectobots anyway. Both teams actually have Blades. Hot Spot and Streetwise even make good counterparts for Heat Wave and Chase. Even though I think a bull dozer is kind of out of place on a rescue team.

    Stunticons: A new version of Bug Bite. All the Stunticons have the same vehicle modes as certain Autobots with entirely different robot modes. So the new Bug Bite would still be a white Bumblebee in vehicle mode but would look entirely different in robot mode. I just really wanted to give Bumblebee a Stunticon counterpart.

    Predacons: TFW lists Gnaw as a Predacon anyway so might as well update him as an actual member of the team. I don't really think his original appearance fits in with the other Predacons though. Maybe if he looked more like an actual shark instead of some weird alien walking shark thing.

    Aerialbots: Airazor of course because that name has been used on Aerialbots before and I like the reference to Beast Wars. I think she should even be based on the Dawn of the Future's past version of BW Airazor. Same jet mode and color scheme.
     
  2. EightiesKid

    EightiesKid G1 archivist

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    I actually love the FOC Bruticus combiner. I had to have him in hand before I could really have an informed opinion, but I think he is awesome. I love that he is a combiner in and of himself, you don't need to attach a lot of excess stuff, fists, feet, etc., in order to make him work. I'm a big fan, and I would love to see new updated versions of other combiners.
     
  3. Strife

    Strife Well-Known Member

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    It REALLY depends to be honest. FoC Bruticus has a lot of compromises made to make him a Scramble City combiner, and as evidence by the threads here, a lot of the mistransformation people do to make him look good and not like a monkey is to get around those compromises.

    I really appreciate that they tried, but I'd prefer dedicated arms / legs that give the limbs appropriate bulk, which has been a consistent problem in every combiner from Energon to the present. I think limb-swapping worked in G1 because they were incredibly simple fingers. Limb swapping todays gets us the best hand on Swindle, so it'll never be used as he's the ideal leg, and the worst hand on Vortex, who is the best arm but worst leg.

    As for what next? Stunticons without a doubt. 3rd party is doing Aerialbots already and whenever TFC Toys gets around to doing Predaking, it will vastly eclipse whatever Hasbro makes. I think Hasbro could pull off Menasor pretty easily. Seacons would be pretty nice to see too.
     
  4. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

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    Actually him looking like a monkey as you say isn't a result of not having dedicated arms and legs. It's a result of the torso being the same class size as the limbs. Typically the torso would be at least a class size bigger than all of the limbs. As for how good they look as an arm or leg that's purely a matter of opinion. Frankly I'm just amazed at the engineering. They don't seem to sacrifice anything and still manage to have great articulation. I wasn't expecting there to actually be elbow joins in the arm modes. Past combiners have only really had up and down shoulder movement at the connection point. I really wasn't expecting any more than that. The original combiners actually sacrificed a lot to accommodate combining. The combined mode also had to sacrifice as it had to do a lot of partforming unlike today's combiners where the head, hands, and feet are all built in.

    Basically if Bruticus was designed with dedicated limbs it wouldn't make the toys any better. Maybe Swindles legs wouldn't be hollow sense he wouldn't have the hands but that's about it.

    Also you mentioned that not having dedicated limbs has been a problem from Energon to present but there haven't been any limb swapping combiners at all between then and now. We had the 3 combines in Energon and now FoC Bruticus. That's it. So that has not been the problem.

    The problem with Energon Combiners is that there were really only 3 members of each team sense the other two were repaints. Having only 2 limbs rather than a proper 4 limbs takes all the fun out of being able to swap them. It doesn't really change the look except for color if you swap and arm and a leg that are the same mold.

    The Problem with RotF Combiners is that you have to buy 2 versions of every character to get all 3 modes. Or you can buy the legends version which is a LOT cheaper and you get all 3 modes in one toy. But it's an ugly design anyway.

    The Problem with Power Core Combiners is that they're not even Combiners. That's more like a super mode than a gestalt because the limbs are not robots. They're like Energon Optimus Prime and his drones. They're not characters they're just little drone vehicles that turn into limbs.

    Basically FoC Bruticus is our first real combiner team sense RID.

    I wouldn't mind updated combiners with fixed limbs but I prefer the Scramble City type because of all the different ways they can combine. With Fixed limbs you only have one option to combine them.
     
  5. cliffjumperftw1

    cliffjumperftw1 I have no idea what I'm doing.

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    I honestly like the fixed limbs idea, because when you have just one guy that makes just one limb, the designers aren't cramming a second limb mode in that starts to sacrifice things from the other modes. I don't really want the FOC combaticons because I have the energon bruticus with the FP upgrades, and I personally LOVE all the seperate bits that combine to make feet, hands, Etc. just really fun putting it all together, but at the same time I do want them. So I'll probably go with the wrecker variant.
     
  6. Switchblade

    Switchblade Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see Hasbro put out some more combiners just like FOC Bruticus (only with better quality plastic and no figure as boring as Swindle), I don't even care if it has to be another Cybertronian design in order for it to work. I like how the final product looks, I love having the Scramble City style interchangeability back, and it would be fantastic to get another two or three combiners so we could really start getting some crazy limb-swapping going.

    Which ones do I want to see next? Probably the Stunticons and/or Protectobots. They're all cool designs/characters that don't always get enough love from Hasbro. I do not want to see a Superion, though, at least not right away. Bruticus, Superion, and Devastator are the most overused and over-exposed combiners and I want to see one of the others get brought back first.
     
  7. orangeitis

    orangeitis All orange, all the time. Looks infectious.

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    I really really do like these ideas. What I'd like to see would actually be more 'optional' combiner bots in addition to every old combiner released with this gimmick. Like in addition to the main 5, Hasbro makes 3 or 4 optional bots on the same team, with one of them being an optional torso. For instance, in addition to Streetwise, Blades, Groove, First Aid, and Hot Spot, there'd be Stakeout, Red Alert, and Prowl.
     
  8. Sean Prime

    Sean Prime Banned

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    It would be nice as a less expensive option to the third parties that are coming out if someone couldn't affording of those or something like that
     
  9. Lbsammills51

    Lbsammills51 Well-Known Member

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    I'd much prefer set arms and limbs as well. I'm not a fan on the Scramble City bit on anything other than G1. That said, going forward, if future combiners are made during a point in time where budget isn't as much of an issue, hopefully some of these issues can be rectified simply for allowing for more dynamic engineering.

    It is nice that we got five different molds for FoC Bruticus though. That, to me, was the best development to come out of this figure.
     
  10. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

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    While I'm on the Subject of combiners I'd also like to see totally updated versions of Magnaboss and Tripredacus from Beast Wars. Each would be made in the Scramble City style with 3 new members to fit with the gimmicks I talked about in my original post.

    You'd still get Prowl, Ironhide, and Silverbolt with the same beast and robot modes. Though they would obviously combine differently. The Lion Prowl would actually be renamed Leo Prime so that one of the new team members could be based on the Owl version of BW Prowl. And because I've always wanted to see them with beast modes based on their names, Bumblebee and Hound would be the other two new members. Yeah I know Bumblebee is kind of out of place when the rest of team are birds and mammals but I don't care. The default combination would be Leo Prime as the Torso, Silverbolt would be the left arm, Prowl as the right arm, Ironhide would be the right leg, Hound as the left leg, and Bumblebee forming a weapon. As an added bonus Silverbolt and Prowl's wings would be removable and can combine together to form a larger set of wings that can attach to Magnaboss' back in any of the combined modes.

    Tripredacus would still consist of Ram Horn, Sea Clamp, and Cicadacon with the same beast and robot modes. Again the combined form would work differently. Tarantulas would also join their ranks and combine with them sense he apparently shares the same origins and we haven't seen a new version of him in years. Ravage was also a Tripredacus Agent in Beast Wars so he would be an official combining team member. Now he's out of place here because he is a mammal. lol As for the 6th member of the team... I'm thinking Soundwave as a Bat which is also a mammal, OK not so out of place now. For the default combined form Cicadacon would form the torso looking much like he did in the original version, Soundwave would form the right arm and Ram Horn would form the left arm. Sea Clamp would form the right leg and Tarantulas would form the left leg. Ravage would form a weapon typically held by Soundwave's arm mode. As an added bonus Cicadacon and Soundwave's wings would be removable and can combine together to form a larger set of wings that can attach to Tripredacus' back in any of the combined modes.
     
  11. Insane Galvatron

    Insane Galvatron is not insane. Really!

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    I agree about the small torso causing the monkey arms. I'd like to see a 3rd party make a voyager sized Onslaught that was closer to the games design.

    As for making all bots able to do torso and limbs, it'd never work. It was impressive enough they could get 4 modes ( bot, alt, arm, leg ) out of those guys. 5 would have been pushing it. The compromises to make that work would have made all the modes suffer.
     
  12. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

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    Not really as it wouldn't take that much effort to make torso modes from all of them. The only hard part would be the need to add the Gestalt head on all of them. Other than that it's just a matter of adding 4 connection ports.

    If you really think about it there isn't really that much going on with the limb modes. Except for Brawl and his arm mode I think looks like crap. But Swindle's leg mode is really just his vehicle mode with the robot feet and connection point folded out. Blast Off is practically all the way in vehicle mode for the leg. Vortex is simply a matter of turning the cockpit section one why or the other for a leg or arm and having or not having a hand out.

    Basically what I'm saying is not every mode has to require a lot of moving parts to engineer.
     
  13. fa11enwing

    fa11enwing Well-Known Member

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    But the takara engineers are limited to using foc character designs for accuracy, along with budget. And if they made onslaught a voyager, there won't be a guarantee it will release with its limb mates at the same time with all the store distribution. The kids will probably forget waiting for voyager onslaught for months. They can box sets which they did, the sdcc and g2, but with mass distribute in mind.
    I'm happy with what I got, despite the flaws. Never perfect but they have brought us a combiner with those limitations, considerations, and other competition on the shelves. Hoping to see more combiners in the near future.
     
  14. starman72

    starman72 Well-Known Member

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    i would like to see a scramble city type combiner with the headmaster concept added. how hard would it be to add a gestalt head that's a seperate smaller robot?

    throw in some targetmaster style minicons (like in pcc) and there's some serious potential.