I'm a child of the 80's, about 8-months-in to serious transformers toy collecting. I'm focusing on G1 masterpiece figures and movie figures (with a few marvel/DC figures mixed in). Since I'm like 10 years late to the party, it's really hard to find most figures because they're sold out everywhere... so I end up on eBay.

I don't mind buying 3rd party figures, and prefer it in most cases because of price. But I'm still confused about the difference between a legit 3rd party figure, and a knock off.

Is it a fair assumption that all figures shipping from China are KOs?

For example: I want a 3rd party masterpiece Ultra Magnus. Toy House Factory's THF-04 Hyper Magnum looks best (no butt flap!). The only place I can find him is on eBay, and all sellers are shipping from China or Hong Kong.

Would that mean I'm not actually buying a legit Toy House Factory figure, and instead, I'm buying a knock-off of a knock-off?! If so, it could have QC issues, and that worries me, especially for $90+.

Thank you for the advice.

 

See China Ebay Seller Check - New-comers READ FIRST POST!!

 

Thanks for the link, but that doesn't answer my questions. Help me connect the dots here.

Is a "good" or "legit" eBay seller from China shipping the actual name brands they claim to be selling? Or, are those indeed KO's of 1st or 3rd party figures, but at least they don't steal your money and/or send you total crap.

 

As for collecting G1 MP scale figures, take a look at this thread: The Masterpiece Character Guide (or "do they have an MP yet", and what substitutes?)
It lists all characters by season and has hyperlinks to threads for the character in official form/release as well as 3P versions of that character.

My suggestion would be if you are interested in a character and one of the MPscale offerings, look it up on YouTube and watch 2 or 3 videos about it. Seeing a variety of reviewers ought to give you more confidence on various aspects and if it might meet your liking; and will often address whether it is a KO or not.

As for the 3P vs KO delineation, there are levels and different perspectives.
-Some say all 3P companies are producing knockoffs because they don’t own the intellectual property (IP) of the characters they’re representing, regardless if their engineering for the figure and its transformation are unique to their creation.

I think where most agree are that:
-figures in boxes that try to pass off as official, but are not official, are knock offs.
-figures in boxes that clearly differentiate from the official box, but where the contents inside leverage, reuse or reverse engineer the original mold are ‘less deceptive’ than the aforementioned example, but are still knock offs, even if they make some improvements on the original/official toy. So, your THF ultra Magnus example would fall into this category.

I’m sure others can provide other details and links, but discussions on that 3P vs KO topic have come up quite frequently.

There is no broad rule that applies across the board for figures coming from China, so the short answer to your question of ‘are they all KOs?’ would be ‘no.’
I’d recommend investigating in a case by case (ie character by character) basis.
Las tidbit for now, is that there are trusted China sellers that in addition to having eBay stores, they have separate websites for their merchandise (eg bababobo..., showz, etc,). They typically have a category called 4th party, which are basically the KOs they are selling.

 

@shunOptimusPrime My best advice is if
A PRICE IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE,DONT DO IT UNLESS YOU LIKE GETTING SCAMMED.

 

If you look up scammer in the dictionary it says Chinese seller on eBay

 

THF Magnus is what is sometimes called 4th party. It's basically a KO of Takara MP Ultra Magnus, but it has a few changes/improvements. So no, there wouldn't be a KO of it, as it's already basically a KO of MP UM.

 

Take these posts as the most relevant information you will get from Chinese sellers on EBay. Roughly 98% are scammers. Even ones that aren’t on the list of scammers, will be soon. They’re always changing accounts. I suggest looking for reputable online toy sites, dealing with TFW2005 members with good feedback, or buying from sellers that aren’t in China on EBay. It will save you a lot of headaches.

 

Youtube:
"Bots and Bits" does good reviews of KO's, comparing them to their official counterparts most times.

BensKOllectables is a spinoff channel of Benscollectables that reviews only KO bots.

Brands like KBB, Black Mamba, WeiJiang, Jinbao, Infinite Transformation, Blue Circus are all QUALITY KO (often making improvements on the original molds) while there are a few less reputable producers with more QC issues.

I suggest looking at direct sites like Show.ZStore (excellent customer service - check out their thread here), TF-Direct, TFSafari to avoid ebay scams. Note: don't expect ANYTHING to arrive in less than a week coming from China. It is very common to be waiting upwards of 3-5 weeks, more around the holidays.

I am SO glad that I've been able to acquire some quality KO's over the last 2-3 years. Don't get me wrong, I think it's important to support the innovator, but when the KO brings a better product to the table at a fraction of the cost, my budget is stretched enough as it is so it's going to the one that gives me more bang for the buck.

 

I own THF Magnum. It is just a re-engineered TT Magnus.

They got rid of the butt flap, tightened up a lot of the joints and connecting pieces and threw in a bunch more accessories. It's a good fig. I picked it up on TFSafari for around $75

As for ebay. I try not to buy anything on there anymore. I only got burned once, but that was enough for me.

If you feel you are late to the party. I recommend combing the sales thread here and maybe joining some of the FB sales threads also. There is people always selling on there.

 

The assumption that ALL chinese sellers are scammers is pure BS. Do your research, check the feedback. If most of their recent feedback is filled with positive transactions for $2 knick-knacks, then be suspicious. Avoid too good to be true items. Ebay and paypal fees keep rising to cover the money lost from refunding idiots who think they can get a $200 figure for $20.

 

No.

You'd be getting a legit Toy House Factory figure. KOs of 3P/other KOs usually have different branding (for example, Uidaman is a brand that KOs Newage figures).

 

That’s not entirely true man. Some accounts will be legit for a while, and even ship out legit items before they go Rouge. Just happened to me recently. They even will send out a bogus item with tracking to prolong the refund process, and have gotten smarter with their pricing. So I stand by my statement that it’s a large percentage that are scammers or will be. Are there good sellers in China, sure there are. But, they are definitely in the minority.
I just NOW pulled up EBay listings for a Masterpiece KO Soundwave. Five are listings from Chinese sellers, and out of those 5 I’m sure 2 are scams, possibly a third. What kind of ratio is that? 50%, 65%?

 

I've never had an issue myself, though its been several months since I bought something from a Chinese seller. I still think that blanket statements that all of the sellers will screw you over isnt entirely truthful or helpful.

 

Only a Sith deals in absolutes. Sorry for the reference, couldn’t resist. I said Most, not all. But, let’s be fair and look up some sold out or KO Masterpiece items on EBay and figure out of how many of the Chinese listings are most likely scams. I’m going to pick KO MP Sideswipe, and let’s say FansToys Forager. I haven’t looked either up yet. So I’ll check shortly, and I invite you to do the same.

 

bababobo and Netclow on ebay are among the most popular and reliable China sellers used by many on this board. Their prices are usually pretty competitive. You may find sellers with better prices, but it's a dice roll on being scammed. If you want piece of mind and don't want to deal with the risk, best to go direct to these guys. ShowZ is a good online store too if you don't want to go with ebay. There are others sellers/stores that I haven't mentioned, but these are the go-to guys for many here.

 

Welcome to the almost bottomless pit of serious collection. First advice, determine exactly what you want (characters) and try to stick to them without making it about checking off a list, because that honestly isn't fun.

3rd party, most likely yes. Official Takara MP figures can still be bought from on-line stores. Although either the prices will be higher or it will be the more cartoon based + releases. Outside of USA based stores, make sure to check out stores like Anime Export, Nippon Yassan and Amazon Japan.

I would also suggest you check out Show.Z.Store. His website makes a clear distinction between Official TF figures, 3rd party and 4th party (=Knock Off). His prices are good and he's honest and reliable.

There's an important difference:

a Knock Off figure is a copy of an existing figure. Not an original piece of work, just a replica. Sometimes, however, the Knock Off will be different. Either different colours, oversized, or small changes to the design (which safeguards them under Chinese law). This, however, isn't much of an issue for a G1 MP collection: oversized has been done for a limited number of figures (MP-10 Optimus, MP Sideswip, MP Ironhide and MP Inferno) and recolours are rare for G1 MP. But regular KO's are very much an issue. I think almost all if not all, G1 MP's have been KO'd. These of course aren't labeled on the box as KO's, but either just use TakaraTomy, or a name derived from TakaraTomy or new names when they're proud of their work (Black Mamba, IT, THF, etc...). At the end, they're still (illegal) replica's of existing figures and not always good quality (and sometimes better).

In contrast, although a 3rd party figure is based on the TF character you know from fiction (cartoon/comics), it differs from a KO in that it's an original design made by the 3rd party company. For example, the Fans Toys Dinobots. They're clearly based on the G1 Dinobots, but there are no official MP sized Dinobots from Takara (save the smaller Grimlock). These are original designs created by the 3rd party company, but inspired by the Transformer version (cartoon, G1 toy).

Absolutely not.

First, Hasbro and Takara also use(d) factory's located in China and TF's are sold in China.
Secondly, all 3rd party products are made in China (and often by Chinese based companies), and sold from China. Even a USA based store has bought them from China, but they have to pay shipping and profit, while you can skip that by buying directly from China.

But if you see something that looks like an official Masterpiece figure (link to current official MP's) and it's cheap, then almost always it is a KO. If you want a MP Prowl and a Chinese e-bay seller is offering it for $ 30, then that's very clearly a KO. Doesn't mean an expensive on isn't, but the cheap one always is. YouTube reviewer Bots and Bits has done reviews of KO's comparing them, figure and box, to the official release. (Often, but not always, there are telltale signs on the box: the lines in the cardboard box, a line surrounding the art....)

No, that would be a legit Toy House Factory Magnus. However, THF is a maker of KO. What you would be buying is a KO of the official MP Ultra Magnus.

 

It happens. My advice is consider what you buy carefully. Many of the older (probably) expensive figures will either be reissued or updated by a new official or 3rd party release. Also keep an eye out in the BST forum here. You can come buy some good deals on figures you may not be able to find at retail.

I'd recommend you focus on releases from

Takara
Fanstoys
Zeta
Toyworld (Constructor Only)
DX9
Xtransbots
MMC

I'm not super similar with the KO bots, i'd look for reviews or check their individual threads.

MP Transformers

This is actually a spreadsheet of my collection and what I'm waiting on to either replace figures I own (red) or holes in my collection.

At this point I'm basically just buying Takara and Fans Toys products unless something just blows me away (such as the MMC Soundwave and Blaster Tapes)

A KO is a clone of an existing figure. Sometimes these KO's are made better than their source, but often they are inferior.

3rd Party figures are all original figures that are just not licensed to use the likeness of the character.

There are a few know good Chinese ebay sellers the only one I’ve delt with is bababobo00712 and I believe he is actually a member here. Most chinese sellers that are selling KO's have it in the listing. As far as KO's go, 99% of the KO's I know of are KO'd Takara MP Figures.

What you have to worry about more with these sellers is just scam BS. I'm not sure what they gain from it, but its more of a frustration and waste of time. Your money really isn't in any danger.

I'm not super familiar with this figure, but it seems to be a KO of MP-22.

 

When it comes to buying from sellers in China on eBay, there are a few things you can do to help avoid a scam. First, don't buy from sellers with little feedback...I'd probably call anything under 1000 little...and even that's not a lot. Next, if they're selling something for far less than anyone else has it for, even if they have good feedback, then the account has probably gone rogue and it's a scam. If the feedback is all private, it's probably a scam. If you can see their recent feedback and it's not similar product to what you're looking to buy, it's more likely a scam. There are also a good number of known good sellers that probably have most of what you're looking for in stock...use them. And now that eBay charges sales tax, I'm not sure they're any better than going through ShowZ or other trusted overseas sellers not on eBay.