Rockman/Megaman ZX

Discussion in 'Video Games and Technology' started by OmegaScourge, Jan 13, 2006.

  1. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    Source?
     
  2. Scrapper6

    Scrapper6 Lord of Constructicons

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    Capcom USA themselves said as much in that article linked somewhere else in that thred; at least I'm fairly certain the link was in this thread, I might have gotten it confused with the message board over at GameFAQs.

    Either way if Capcom USA officially gave out this reason and we have no reason to doubt them, I mean why would they lie about their Japan branch and specifically Inafune mucking things up for them; they know that a lot of US fans and other assorted fans from english speaking countries and the like would probably get p-oed over hearing it and inadvertantly boycott either IHX or MMXC.


    Personally I don't care either way; all I know is that what could have been would have been a dream come true, but thanks to buisness muckety-mucks we're left with what we have. And it'll still be worth it to me because my SNES is broken, I don't really plan on getting a replacement one and I never owned the MMX titles for the SNES.


    I also don't see how Mister Inafune's absence from the projects of the past could be considered reason enough to call certain titles in the series as being piss poor, I happened to like MMX6 and Inafune doesn't strike me as the Mega Man game god or anything like that... Hell I didn't even know his name until this cropped up.
     
  3. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    X5 and X6 were horribly unfinished, X5 having amateurish graphics and sound, including music ripped from previous games where there normally would have been new songs. X6 was more finished graphically, but had cheap level design and bad enemy population. Both totally screwed up the armor system. Every X game to come before them was of much higher quality.

    It doesn't much matter if you never heard of Inafune Keiji before now. If he hadn't been working at Capcom in the late 1980s, you'd never have heard of Rockman or Mega Man. Seeing as he's the reason there can even be a Mega Man collection of any kind, I think he deserves some respect from anyone even pretending to be a fan of the franchise.

    Every game he's been directly involved in has been great. Although not all of the games he's been absent from have been garbage, X5 and 6... I honestly hate to say ill of any Rockman game, but they're sub-par to say the very least. They should've been released as budget games. I used to play every new Mega Man game as soon as it saw a US release (and usually bought them before I even played them). I've played very little of X7 or X8 specifically because the two games before them left such a horrible taste in my mouth. X7 is clearly a bit better than it's immediate predecesors, but it still feels like it's using the new 3D graphics to compensate for a lack of inspiration. "Disappointment" doesn't even begin to cover how I felt about having bought both X5 and X6 on release. Shocked, hurt, and betrayed is more like it. Needless to say, at this point I feel much better having someone who at least knows something about how to make a Rockman game doing development, much more so the creator of the series himself. It's a no-brainer and an incredible relief.


    Capcom USA told us that Ken and Ryu practice Shotokan karate. That's not correct, and I've known little else they've said about their games or anything outside of them to be sensible or true on a reliable basis. Maybe they're telling the truth, and maybe they're laying the blame one someone the fans are less likely to send threatening letters to. I have no doubt they had torrents of complaints after the last collection.
     
  4. Da_Razorsaw

    Da_Razorsaw Highwire ownz j00

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    I disagree with that, because I think the MMX series was a lot better once he put it down. It actually feels like like an ensemble series than "The story of Zero masquerading as the story of X." Yes, we have the copy reploids driving the story now, but X8 gave more attention to the bigger cast than Inafune did in X4 through X5.

    As for saying it's far-fetched that he did that, I doubt that CoA and the most well known and respected Mega Man site conspired in a lie:

    http://megaman.retrofaction.com/index.php?main=articles/editorials/editorial019

    An editorial explaining the whole matter.
     
  5. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    You're forgetting that the important part of Mega Man is not the story. If you're more worried about the story than about the game mechanics and level design, put down the controller and stick with the manga.

    A fan site is a fan site is a fan site. The guy goes on and on about what he's been "told" but told by whom, how reliably, and for what reason? That's not journalism. Presumably it's some contact at Capcom USA? And that differs from when it was already info maybe from Capcom USA's website somehow?
     
  6. Da_Razorsaw

    Da_Razorsaw Highwire ownz j00

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    No.

    No. Especially, that since X3, this series has been pretty story-driven. The classic series? Yeah, you'd have a point there. But for the X series? Zero series? BN and Legends series?

    No.

    And yet, even in the Classic Series I'd be more than a bit miffed if they started going on like Bass or Protoman was THE star, like Inafune did for Zero.

    And I suppose the fact that they've proven time and time again to be incredibly reliable and trustworthy is completely meaningless?
     
  7. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    8+ selectable levels plus linear boss areas? Check. Play exactly the same if I skip or skim through all the cut scenes? Check. Just as fun without the plot? Check! ...except for X6. Without the plot, X6 blows goat. Funny about that. A crappy game with a decent story is... a crappy game.

    (EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, the story for X6 pretty much sucked too. What the hell was wrong with the team they put together for that one?)

    Dude, I lost my faith in Mega Man fans a long, long time ago. I used to work for what was then a popular and reliable fan site. When I lost my faith in Capcom USA or in the majority of Capcom of Japan is harder to say, but I can pinpoint for you exactly when I gave up on the fans. The owner and head of the aforementioned site decided she didn't like Mega Man 8. Why? Because she thought the story was dumb.

    I'm all for decent plots in my games, but when that's the main thing you're worried about, you're looking to the wrong medium. As video GAMES, the main point is always the GAMEPLAY. Everything else is icing. A delicious cake with plain icing is a delicious cake. Dog shit with fancy icing is dog shit. Have fun eating dog shit all you want, but I'm going to eat cake.
     
  8. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    What site would that be?

    Whether you like it or not, the Megaman Network has always been a reliable site, and has never been wrong. they have direct ties to capcom which has been proven time and time again.
     
  9. Da_Razorsaw

    Da_Razorsaw Highwire ownz j00

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    If they insist on doing a story, then I'm going to EXPECT a story to go along with the games. I'm sorry if that's not how you think video games fans are supposed to act.
     
  10. Scrapper6

    Scrapper6 Lord of Constructicons

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    Wasn't Capcom not even responsible for the first Mega Man Compilation set IE the Anniversary set?

    I thought it was a decent collection personally; I enjoyed playing all the classic era MM games, plus I finally beat them all, which is something I could never claim to have done before.


    Personally I'm not sure who to believe; I guess CoA could be wrong, but I highly doubt they'd make all that shit up just to slam Inafune.
    And just because I don't praise the guy for creating a videogame franchise doesn't mean I'm a robot master or something. Hell if you praise somebody just for creating something it's a bit much; and going so far as to say if he's not involved with the project then it sucks is a bit much.
    MM X8 is part of my collection and I find it to be a veritably challenging game, I'm still stuck trying to get all the rare metals in normal mode.

    MM X Command Mission is a cool game too; I don't own X7 yet, I'll probably get it to finish the series for my collecting purposes, but I don't know how I'll react to it.

    And as for X5 and X6; some of the tunes in X5 really rocked and true X6 was a tad simplistic when it came to challenge, but it was no less fun; X6's story was screwed up a little because of really poor translation efforts, back when Capcom released it I'd imagine they weren't up to snuff at the time.

    So in conclusion; I like the X series for what it is, and I like the story aspect, that doesn't make me any less of a friggen fan, without stories most of todays videogames would just be rehashes of rehashes.
     
  11. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    That's an incredibly sad statement to be able to make, especially since any story idea you can think of can also be boiled down to a rehash of a rehash. Maybe we should stop allowing and encouraging that kind of uninspired gameplay? X5 was playable, but it was an exercise in low production values and a sever downgrade in terms of the armor system. X6... I haven't seen 2D level design that awful since I tried out all the fan made levels for Jazz Jackrabbit 2, and some of those were actually better (and more "story driven" to boot). When the only ideas they can come up with for challenge involve enemies that can't die and not letting the player see what he's doing, that's a very, very big problem, especially when you've already got the most bland and repetitive levels of any game so far in the series. The story cannot and does not redeem that.

    Since when is it too much to give someone a little respect for creating something great? Don't you like being able to play Mega Man games? There wouldn't be any at all without Inafking, and it's unlikely that there'd be so frigging many of them if most of them weren't such damn good games and so well designed. I think someone who can create Rockman and Onimusha deserves some credit for his work. I didn't exactly mean to say that every Rockman game he hasn't been in charge of was crap. The point is that without him, the quality of the games is less consistent, and HAS at times in the past turned to crap, and more often to solidly mediocre.

    I used to work for The Man in Blue. We were a popular fan site the better part of a decade ago, but it hasn't existed for years. That's really not relevant though.

    As for reliability, reporting on the details of an upcoming game via an unnamed contact within the US division of Capcom is one thing. Reporting on internal company politics via an unnamed contact is entirely another, and not very responsible. That's somethig important to keep in mind. Large companies of any kind, including game companies can have extremely vicious internal politics, especially between different divisions. I've read some really nasty shit that's suposedly gone on between departments at Sega, but somehow the jerks are never in the department of the person telling the story. It's always the other guy's fault. Funny about that.

    But as I said before, I don't even really care if it is true. It smacks of politics and blame games to me, what with Inafune not working in marketing and both sides of Capcom rarely doing what he wants in the past, not to mention Capcom USA screwing up SO many things in the past... but if it's true I'm not going to cry over some remixed music and redubbed dialogue I didn't get in a couple of old games and crucify the man who created the series and makes new games that are good on a reliable basis.

    Oh yeah, about that classic anniversary collection. There's a difference between not programming it and not being responsible. They paid another company to handle the conversions, but it's their job to pay attention to the quality and to step on the developers when it isn't up to snuff. It's also their responsibility not to sell us a steaming pile of dookie when it's "done". They picked the wrong guys for the job, they didn't do any quality control, and they acted like nothing was wrong with the collection. They screwed up.
     
  12. Da_Razorsaw

    Da_Razorsaw Highwire ownz j00

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    We're not TALKING about the classic anniversary collection. The X Collection was handled differently anyway.

    I will accept that Inafune has made some great games. But the fact of the matter is, the situations he's been involved in have been somewhat petty. This isn't just about him being able to do anything he wants as creator of Rockman. That'd be like saying Stan Lee is the only one who has anything to say about what goes down with Spider-Man.

    Even if you don't care about the anniversary collection, that's bad form. He compromised something people were anticipating, thus decreasing people's options and encouraging them to buy individual remakes for a whole new system rather than buying a single compilation for a system most people have. And why? So his remakes would be "more special" - which is balderdash because the fixing of the older US releases would have most likely taken NOTHING away from his games. The fact of the matter is, he did something he didn't HAVE to do.

    And for the merits of his "vision", it sounds like he's been unresponsive to something just because he didn't come up with. Something ALL franchise creators have had to deal with. And this so-called "vision of the X-series"? He's not been above revising it, as shown by his changes to it in the Zero series, so I don't see why he's so adverse to the idea of other people playing with his toys.

    X6? I will not deny that it's a trainwreck. X7? Flawed, bad voice acting, but largely likeable characters and plot elements, with some good gameplay under the surface. X8 and Command Mission, great games, stuff I'd like to play, and storytelling that works for everybody instead of "All Zero all the time."

    Inafune has done a lot for this franchise, but that does not give him a "get out of jail free card" when it comes to being a jerk. Even if his comments about his "vision being compromised" have been exaggerated and he's not really that angry at the X7-X8 people, he's still unfairly divided the fandom on this side of things.

    And for the record, YES Inafune would be in a position to make the decision he made for the X Collection. He's pretty high up in the Capcom ranks.
     
  13. GigatronSama

    GigatronSama Mr. Insomnia Veteran

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    Do we even have any proof of these accusations? I've seen no links to any news sites just rumors circulating on message boards, and the only proof offered are links to other message boards circulating the same rumor.

    I think capcom USA screwed up and just doesn't care. Someone comes along and makes a conspiracy theory and eveyrone is hating on Inafune, whom if you ask me is a fairly good sport about letting others work within his universe (as evidenced by Zero series expanding to allow the later X games into canon)

    Such a petty thing I'd expect from Koji Igarashi (current director but not creator of castlevania who decanonized everything not developed under him) but not Inafune.

    MMXC probably got pushed back once and, CoA afraid of it becoming another GB collection rushed the release date allowing it to be released in incomplete form.
     
  14. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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  15. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    But the Capcom contact(s) appear to be annonymous. That's better than no inside contacts at all, but it means we don't know what the contact(s) can accurately comment on or what biases or ulterior motives they might have due to internal company politics. Remember that even Aaron Archer has given us bad information in the past. GS is quite right that this kind of thing is out of character for Inafune. Not just his amiable concessions within the franchise, but also his apparent personality from interviews really make this "news" hard to swallow.

    For future reference, "you're wrong" is not a very good argument.
     
  16. Chaos Muffin

    Chaos Muffin Misadventure Veteran

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    Picked up the X collection the other day (Own the MM Collection and a few original copies as well)
    Loving it. Feels just like the originals.

    Never played any of them for the story. Even though it's always a nice bonus if it's good. If not, blah *press A (would be like hating Mario for finding out Peach is a lesbian)
    Always liked them for they're spot on control platforming and formulaic boss battles.
    Finding the boss's weakness is way more interresting than what Mega Man likes to do with his spare time. Especially if it's portrayed in sprites.
     
  17. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    Well, Inafune is just doing what he felt was best for the series. he wasnt out to screw the fans like some people are thinking.

    Gotta remember, Inafune hasnt had executive control over the series since X4 came out. capcom did X5, X6, X7, and X8 mostly without him. He has full control over the series once again, and he's trying to get the series back to how he thinks it should be, and thats awesome, its his series.

    Inticreates, the company responsible for the Zero series (which inafune was in full control of) wanted to do Megaman 9, and Megaman Legends 3, but he was able to block that, his reason being that he wanted to do them himself. More power to him, those games just wouldnt be the same without him. there was a very noticable change in the X series without inafune: the games sucked (except for X8). I dont want the same to happen to the classic series and legends.

    So yes, he did make yet another big decision that kept new content from being added to the classic collection games. not that big of a deal after I thought about it a bit. he wants this collection to be as close to how the gamers here remember it being, which it is. This isnt a "how the games were supposed to be", because thats what the MHX series is going to be, and yes, removing new voice acting and remixed music from the collection IS going to make each MHX game more special.

    Inafune wasnt being an ass when he removed stuff. while not everyone agrees with his decision, he's just doing what he knows is best for the series. he's never made a bad decision with a megaman game before, so I trust him.
     
  18. Scrapper6

    Scrapper6 Lord of Constructicons

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    Best for the series???? Man; if I wanted to play the games in their original format I'd go out of my way to buy the original games; or in the least pop my copies of X4, X5 or X6 into my PS2.
    Whenever Nintendo re-released a mario game they always redid some of the content to make it special; I would assume that I would be able to see the same kind of quality and consistanty in that regards from Capcom. And yet they failed to go ahead with what was originaly planned for this collection because Inafune asked them not to so that more sales would happen with MHX. At least that's what I'm getting from all the data presented over at MegaMan Network.

    Perhaps I've come to an erroneous conclusion due to ploitical infighting within the company; who can say, the point is despite my enjoyment of the new MMX Collection it is sorely lacking in the new content department and I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO BUY A STUPID PSP JUST FOR REMAKES OF THE X SERIES WITH NEW CONTENT.
    Totally new content wasn't what they wanted and it wasn't what I wanted either; remakes after all still need something special and apparently in MHX they made Vile a playable character and have done who knows what else, but when it comes to simple things like tweaking in game dialogue or remixing the soundtrack to give us better sound quality or something I don't see why they have to cut it out? How would that detract from Inafune's work? It could only enhance it.

    Suffice it to say this ridiculous ploy to get more fans to go out and buy MHX just because it has all the new stuff that was going to be included in the MMXC + whatever else counts as NEW content is truly pathetic. I'm not wasting good money on a piece of junk portable system for only one game with the POSSIBILITY of future releases in that series. At least with PS2 I have other games besides Mega Man I can enjoy; nothing on the PSP screams buy me, and I'm not paying the same price for a PS2 for a PSP.

    In the long run I'm just going to enjoy what I have and stick with it, but I highly doubt I'll be picking up any new titles released done by Inafune and his team unless it's a PS3 or PS3 title, which isn't a remake. (Meaning if he ACTUALLY does make a Mega Man 9... But I doubt anyone would want a game like that, because quite frankly in order to bridge the X series with the Classic I'd imagine that the bad guys would actually have to win in the process of being stopped by Mega Man... Or in other words; hero dies saving the world or something, because I don't see why Mega Man would still be around during the X series and not bother showing up in a cameo or something... But then again who can say?)


    Still despite the lack of good content MMXC seems to have sold well; there weren't any copies left at Superstore the other day and I got the last one at TRU, so in spite of what Inafune may or may not have done and all the political stuff that may or may not be going on in the background the Mega Man gamer still likes what we got.
     
  19. GigatronSama

    GigatronSama Mr. Insomnia Veteran

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    Indeed I do like MMXC so far and what extras are there are good (except the hints those are lame but I love the concept art)

    My big complaint is really toward things that are clearly the result of a rush job such as the typos in mmX5 and the non looping music in X3.. No one can blame Inafune for things like that, it's just the result of a rush job. And as much as I get the shakes from megaman withdrawal I'd have waited another month to get it right.

    Capcom's fault but nont Infaune's

    As for Inafune's vision of the series. I really do hope he blocks a possible MMZ5 unless he makes it himself. I'd hate to see the beuatiful ending of MMZ4 ruined by a poorly made sequel.

    Though MHX or no I will NEVER buy a PSP. Thankfully Inafune is hooking we DS owners up with new games.