Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman working on Transformers: Prime

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by Vince, Feb 6, 2010.

  1. airfox

    airfox TF: Cybertronian Wars!

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    It's pretty loyal to the original. Not perfect, but very, VERY close.

    Still, not the best Trek movie though.

    -airfox
     
  2. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Personally, I think an obsession with the main character being "awesome and cool" according to a very limited template, is the height of lame, and usually speaks to a desperate need for fantasy empowerment.

    Bumblebee didn't need to become an all-around awesome warrior and super-hot muscle car to charm audiences. Even G1 cartoon Bumblebee was mostly depicted as competent and effective despite his small stature. Let go of the testosterone-driven american car/truck fetish already... compacts are the way of the future. Join the world! ;) 

    Well, I think this falls into a bit of a trap. There is crap Anime and there are crap "western" cartoons. Each medium has certain strengths and weaknesses that tend to distinguish them... much as both broad genres have borrowed from each other a great deal over the years.

    However, I will say that even generic Anime generally tends to make use of a more sophisticated and cinematic visual storytelling language. Often the plotlines are more challenging and dodge some of the simplistic self-contained platitudes common in Western mainstream cartoons.

    Of course, Anime still has it's own tired old cliches to deal with, and often the serial pacing of anime is much less satisfying in the short term.

    Also, many of the areas where Anime is superior, could be credited simply to the fact that much, much more Anime is produced on a regular basis, on a variety of subjects, and for a much broader range of audiences... so as a natural result, it has some much stronger examples. Anime feeds a much different niche in Japan, as opposed to in the West. Mainstream cartoons in the west are only now beginning to break out of the ghetto of limitations on their content and social perception that has hobbled the industry since the postwar years. In a sense, just as Anime was having its genesis as a medium in Japan, Western Cartoons were going into a stagnant cycle that has lasted up until the last generation. Give it time.

    Speaking of mainstream examples of both forms, I do think Anime is in general more "evolved", simply due to the history and industry that has produced it... but Western animation is making a comeback.

    As for strict technical qualities... that's entirely a function of relative budgets. That's neither here nor there....

    zmog
     
  3. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    Sorry not getting to me. I still hate small cars and still have a passion for muscle cars. Compacts are lame. :p 
     
  4. hupla

    hupla Well-Known Member

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    SMOG confirmed for amazing human being
     
  5. ams

    ams Generation All Veteran

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    Sorry man, I mean it only in lighthearted jest, but it does sound an awful lot like something he'd say. :lol 
     
  6. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    No offense taken, but actually, I kind of thought it sounded like something that would be aimed at him (comic book guy).

    I mean, honestly... if your heroes can't be flawed... if they have to match some misguided and juvenile concept of machismo and empowerment in order for you to accept them as protagonists, then I think that reflects rather poorly on you.

    Deciding that in order for Bumblebee to take the spotlight, he has to transform into a testosterone-fueled douchebag-mobile (either that, or a midlife crisis on wheels), and to be a cocky firebrand rugged-individualist warrior, indicates that someone probably holds themself to this same outmoded, highschool fantasy standard, and cannot let a character simply exist on its own merits.

    Turning Bumblebee into an alpha male fantasy is basically ignoring the character's core concept and appeal. If you want that kind of character as the hero, you've got guys like Hot Rod and Cliffjumper and Sideswipe to choose from.

    I like cool cars too... big trucks and muscle cars and street racers, etc... as cultural objects and pieces of sexy machine aesthetic, they have undeniable power. But I don't need to drive one to validate myself, y'know? I just don't buy into the fratboy/redneck psychosis that Michael Bay seems to enjoy pandering to so much.

    Sorry, I just jumped back into the thread on a whim... what does this have to do with Orci and Kurtzman again? I admit, I'm guilty of helping steer us off course a bit... :p 

    zmog
     
  7. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    I like both Bumblebee personalities (fat courageous friendly guy like G1 and sleek action-boy like TFA and Movie) so I really don't have a problem with the characterization, in fact, I'm glad they went with Bumblebee influence on the movie guy because I absolutely love yellow with black on cars.
     
  8. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    Uh..aparently I´m a fratboy for not liking the G1 Bumbleebe. So yeah, "blabla machismo, blabah juvenile blahlah, testorrene, alpha-male" and all that jazz. Aren´t steroytipes and silly judgements fun?

    If it helps, even as a kid I thought Bumbleebee sucked and thought what the fuck he was doing in the middle of bigger bots.

    Still.. who cares? (fratboy) PARTTTTTTTYYYYYYYY!!!!!(fratboy)
     
  9. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    I hear you there... even before Bayformers, yellow on sports cars was the new red. :) 

    Were you a bully too? "Hey... get that little fat kid!!" :D 

    It's not about liking or disliking G1 Bumblebee... it's about the knee-jerk worship of certain status symbols and the associations that go with them... and about recognizing that pulling a "Poochy" on Bumblebee for the movies is lame when there are already other characters available to fill that role.

    And no... I didn't call you a fratboy, but I did imply that you were a fratboy wannabe... ;) 

    zmog
     
  10. Covenant

    Covenant Mr. Roboto in Disguise

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  11. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    Meh, I´ve been callled worse. Guess this is the segment that apeals more to me.
     
  12. Ace Convoy

    Ace Convoy Well-Known Member

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    ..I'm gonna miss the Anime style but I enjoyed Cybertron to it's extent...

    wait that was anime..Nevermind
     
  13. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    Look on the bright side.

    If the movie main robot wasn't Bee, we wouldn't be looking at the revival of the character! Even if somebody dislikes the movie version they gotta admit that he brought back the name and character back to the spotlight, it took him to remember Hasbro that Starscream and Soundwave ain't the only non-leaders people liked.
     
  14. Hiraga

    Hiraga BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL

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    Wait, it's gonna be CG?
    Well...crap...
     
  15. Garimu

    Garimu -Custom User Title-

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    Wait, WHAT?! Ok, I stand corrected then:

    Fix'd.

    More on topic: I think most people here are forgetting the fact that, so far as we'd been informed, Orci and Kurtzman aren't going to be the writers, but the executive producers of this new upcoming show, and thus, regardless if they can do a good or bad job writing, that's nothing to worry about too much this time IMO, since they're not the writers nor going to directly influence the writing on it.

    As for this show being CGI, I admit that at first I felt somewhat disappointed, since I was expecting more 2D animation, but meh. Heck, if they can pull out something as decent looking as BM's CGI, I'm sold.
     
  16. airfox

    airfox TF: Cybertronian Wars!

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    This is true. But I guess what SMOG's getting at is that Movie Bumblebee doesn't fill the same archetype that G1 Bumblebee does, and then it's not actually the "real" Bumblebee (which it isn't of course).

    I think we all know that Movie Bumblebee is closer to UT Hot Shot than to G1 Bumblebee. That's no secret. Where I think the argument (if we can call it that) comes from is from the fact that the Movie Franchise is said to be based on G1 (which it is). "Based on" is not the same as "Exactly as," which is why I think New Bumblebee can be a UT Hot Shot wannabe, just like TFA Bumblebee was a Cheetor wannabe.

    Is there a place for G1 Bumblebee's archetype in the movie franchise? I guess. Will we ever see it? Who knows. What I'm sure of is: he/she won't be Bumblebee. That's fine to me, but evidently not to others.

    -airfox
     
  17. AntiSperglord

    AntiSperglord Member

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    You focus on small, meaningless details and forget the whole. Sperg harder there, bud.

    You are the reason why it is difficult for us to have nice things.
     
  18. youlikey2005

    youlikey2005 Member

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  19. Anguirus

    Anguirus Well-Known Member

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    Plotholes? Yes. But Orci is the Trek fanboy of that writing team. Kurtzmann had seen some of the movies, and Writer #3 (can't remember his name) had NEVER seen Star Trek.

    Credit and blame where they are properly due.