The Last Knight isn't even my favorite (Age of Extinction is), but I also think it is hated way too much. It's not a good sequel to the other four movies or adaptation of "Dark Awakening," but if you view at as a live action adaptation "Madman's Paradise" or as an ogre-the-top apocalyptic action-comedy, it can be viewed in a more positive light. It's a heavily flawed film that still has =its share of good things in it.

 

Can’t go wrong with AOE. It’s version of Lockdown is my favorite portrayal of that character and the TF designs in the film are PEAK. I also love the lore ideas being explored in that film. Plus Dinobots as knights? Genius honestly.

Beast Wars is my thing (which is why I’m excited for ROTB), so I’m not the hugest fan of the films, but I do love how wild the ideas got in 4 and 5. Real cool shit.

 

That's Shrektastic!

 

Man it’s crazy how subjective movies are. I personally hated the action in TLK and it severely disappointed me in every other aspect. Cinematography was indeed great, though. I’m glad you were able to enjoy it though, I wish I could’ve too.

 

Sounds like your threshold for entertainment is on the level of 'Space Thunder Kids', a movie that literally has no plot because it's just a bunch of sci-fi anime all mashed together.

 

Lol. Movies are subjective man, my initial reaction to reading that he enjoyed it was to reply like “what the fuck how” but people like what they like. It’s baffling to me how anyone can enjoy TLK but there are tons who do. To each their own.

 

We are all entertained by stupid, ridiculous stuff on some level. There are stupid jokes and memes I laugh at as well as make. Everything Transformers has some things in it that are stupid or ridiculous. The Last Knight is quite similar to the original cartoon in many ways. Whether one thinks that's a good thing or not or whether that should be the case are other arguments entirely.

 

Not in the one way that mattered: being successful.

 

Why should fans enjoy things based on success? I like the Bay movies, but it has nothing to do with success. I would still enjoy them even if none of them had been financially successful. If people enjoy the comics or cartoons, it should not be based on how well known or little known they are. People should not be validated in their opinions based on "success" or popularity, nor the opposite. Fandoms should be a place for individuals to talk about the things they care about, not collectivist bandwagons. If someone thinks The Last Knight is awful, then let them, and if someone thinks it's great, then let them. And if someone thinks it's somewhere in between, then that's fine, too.

 

Because that would encourage the companies making stuff to make more of it?

After all, GI JOE hasn't been successful in the films and...yeah, I wouldn't exactly say that franchise is in a good place right now. But go ahead, tell any GI JOE fan that the state of their franchise being reduced to maybe little more than Crowdfunding projects shouldn't stop them from "enjoying" films that put the franchise in such a low point in the first place.

Likewise, with Transformers, after the disaster that was TLK, it doesn't matter who actually liked that film, the poor performance in both box office and toy sales in the ways that mattered - a.k.a. "being successful" - left the franchise in a rut where all we got was constant G1 rehashes ad nauseum. Because at that point, the only thing Hasbro saw as being 'successful' was simply doing G1 over and over. It was the only thing making money.

And I think it's been made very clear that a lot of people didn't "enjoy" that at all.

 

FML, here we go again.

 

wheres the popcorn ?

 

Geez... The level of impulse from this response.

How does that work for you with AOE then? Ask someone in China about that first, what did they see over there?

 

Sometimes things are just so bad that they’re fun? Idk. My threshold is different for different films. These films don’t have to be good to be enjoyable. Is it so hard to believe people can be entertained by the Bay films?

 

Enjoyment is subjective and can be derived from a variety of factors that aren't at all related to an individual film's objective quality, however a movie doesn't suddenly become good or bad simply because of your personal feelings on it. A film's (or any piece of constructed media) quality exists separately from whether you like it or not, meaning its totally valid to enjoy a badly constructed movie and equally so to not enjoy something that's really well made.

Personally my own feelings on the Bay films are rarely relevant yet if I feel they'll add something I'll include them: I'm simply critiquing a low quality, exploitative and shallow product that kind of makes a mockery of a franchise I'm quite invested in. Just like any other fan taking shots at a shitty movie adaption of the thing they're a fan of.

No matter how hard some will fight the tide on these kinds of discussions, the idea that films cannot be objectively critiqued is an outdated and closeminded way of thinking that seems to be slowly but surely falling out of fashion as frankly better (and often self taught) critics of media become more recognized and prominent in these spaces. But naturally like with any important change in regards to public discourse there will be hostility and pushback from those who are rigid in their thinking, something I think we can see fairly frequently in these sorts of discussions.

Personally: I don't feel the need to argue with people if they criticize a thing I like or enjoy, because I'm fully cognizant of the fact that enjoyment is subjective and there's not a 'wrong' way to enjoy something, in-fact I may learn something from them if their criticisms are accurate. If this was purely about enjoyment and nothing more I doubt you'd waste time responding to critics when you could just be enjoying it and talking to those who share in those feelings, especially when no one is forcing you to respond to them.

If seeing their comments annoys you, there's a solution for that in the sites UI to freely use at your discretion.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

One thing that would help keep these threads civil is when fans are talking about what they did enjoy from the Bay films, other fans who didn’t enjoy them don’t jump in and start questioning folks’ tastes in media. It’s only going to trigger more heated debates and get nice threads like this locked yet again.

 

Here, I got ya some!  

 

To make a comparison of the state the Transformers movies are in:
It would be like if the only live-action Batman films we ever got were all based on the Adam West show, for 10 years straight, and so it got burned into the public consciousness as "Those corny movies where the man in the bat costume fights clowns, the source material is dumb comic books for children, no one would ever take this seriously".

I think the only things preventing Transformers from being on the level of MCU (pre-Phase 4) and Star Wars (pre-The Last Jedi) are the people making the movies, and the expense of having the robots on screen for extended periods.
It's not like Avengers 2012 or A New Hope are super-deep, complex movies either. They're just handled a lot better. If they wanted, I could see a talented director and writer delving into some themes with Transformers, morality around war, the tension of interacting with alien species, the degree to which Autobots are responsible for bringing the Decepticons to Earth, clashing opinions among the Autobots. It doesn't have to be at the exclusion of fun robot-smashing action either.

 

I’d argue that ‘The Last Jedi’ is the most intelligent and thematically rich Star Wars has ever been (obviously excluding Andor here since were speaking on films). Sure it’s decisive, but let’s not downplay it’s quality for that reason. Let’s say pre- ‘Rise of Skywalker’ for your argument’s sake, and I’d agree somewhat.