Rise of the Beasts Box Office Discussion

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by RazorX3000, Jun 3, 2023.

  1. Zoo

    Zoo Yuh Mein

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    I mean I think the box office numbers kinda spelt it out for us. Sure the fatigue and mediocrity didn't help but it's obvious that consumers were limited to their options on what to watch. There was like 5-6 franchises bigger than transformers that dropped movies too, it was going to be tough competition regardless of how it did critically

    Most of those are franchises that have seen a lotr more recently popularity than transformers. And even those movies would have performed a lot better if it wasn't for the circumstances. People had to pick and choose, and obv since transformers is not the huge powerhouse of a franchise it used to be, less people chose that
     
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  2. rendsora

    rendsora Well-Known Member

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    Just wondering did Pakistan ever broadcast the 80's G1 cartoon on national tv?

    In South East Asia (Singapore, Malaysia, Philippines) it aired around the same time as it was shown in the 80's as in the states.
     
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  3. Shin-Gouki

    Shin-Gouki Retired Admln Veteran

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    "Wheeljack" and "Mirage", a majority of time spent on 2 unlikable Humans for another
     
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  4. Philip164

    Philip164 Board Member

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    Domestic numbers look good, but International numbers dropped.
     
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  5. KodyCrimson

    KodyCrimson Resident Titans Return fan

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    ROTB did break even, counting advertising. So it did make profit, just not a lot. And the lack of good word of mouth can be contributed by most people not seeing that and going to watch movies like Spider-Man instead.
     
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  6. John Titor

    John Titor Well-Known Member

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    How did ROTB break even? Please show me how you calculate it knowing the following facts:

    It cost 190 Million before Marketing.
    Paramount get back 50% of the box office numbers from the US, while it gets between 40% and 25% from international numbers. Chinese theatres, for instance, only give back 25% of their box office to Paramount. So, out of the 90 million it made in china, only 22.5 million went to Paramount to help pay off the film*
    Marketing/advertising costs between 80 million (impossible to be less than that with what we've seen) and 120 million (what was spent on similarly sized Paramount films in the past)

    So given all these facts, how did the movie break even counting advertising? What calculation are you using?
    ...

    * For those not in the know: Under a trade agreement established in 2012, the U.S. studios are entitled to only 25 percent of box office sales revenue for their films in China, compared to 40 percent to 50 percent in other major markets.
    Do Hollywood Films Need to Rethink China Box Office Strategy? – The Hollywood Reporter

    It seems people here are ignoring this rule, it makes this particular film not break even, and at a loss for everything spent on advertising, when comparing to box office revenue. The 2.5 rule of thumb being thrown around is to accommodate for this discrepancy, not for advertising.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2023
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  7. Steevy Maximus

    Steevy Maximus Old School Snarkster

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    Even this year, Dungeons and Dragons got rave reviews and anyone who saw it (that I talked to) loved it. Just…not enough people saw it in theatres.
    But again, pure numbers, domestic or worldwide, don’t paint the entire picture here. Domestically, Transformers out performed Fast X, Flash and D&D by not insignificant margins. For a Pixar film, Elemental struggled to come close to Transformers’ numbers, and while Mission Impossible and Indy 5 “made more money”, they only did so with by about 10 and 15 million respectively. The catch there is that pretty much ALL of those films I just talked about cost as much or MORE than Transformers. Indy 5 and MI are particularly egregious given those two had budgets $100 million greater. While MI (along with Fast X) recovered a bit with International support, Indy 5 didn’t.
    As I said before, the week to week holdover was VERY strong. My observation was that it wasn’t lack of performance that caused Transformers to be cycled down, it was newer films “pushing” it out of showings.

    Given that kind of competition (not to mention surprise hit “Sound of Freedom”), I feel it is disingenuous to paint Transformers in AS negative a view as some are doing. No, it wasn’t a mega hit, but it wasn’t a flop or, arguably, a major disappointment. It did fine, it showed the franchise still has viability, and unlike many other films this summer, I feel Transformers has a longer “back end” that will make up for its weaker international box office.

    I think you can’t discount the broader “discourse” around films this summer when you talk about “word of mouth”. Much of the discourse around June seemed to be about the assorted issues around The Flash and Indiana Jones. Or the underperformance of films like Elemental and many of the prior spring’s releases (D&D, Fast X, etc).
    Transformers was “okay”. And okay doesn’t bring the clicks.
     
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  8. John Titor

    John Titor Well-Known Member

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    If people want actual numbers, here is what Paramount got back from the box office performance worldwide in millions of dollars, according to current trade law:

    78.5 (from US/CAN) + 76.4 (Max possible from non China International theatres) + 22.5 (from China) = 177.4 Million dollars in revenue

    It cost 190 Million to make (so lost around 10 Million already)

    The film cost an additional 80 - 120 for marketing (lost the entirety of that)

    The film dropped a whopping 67% on its second week-end, this is not a strong holdover. And that was a huge drop from an underwhelming opening. Any legs it may have after that it pointless.
    Spider-verse had a bunch of films pushing it out of showings (ROTB being the main one) and it still did well. But I do agree with your final point, which is the same as mine, it just didn't bring in the clicks.
     
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  9. Steevy Maximus

    Steevy Maximus Old School Snarkster

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    That’s why I always point out the “back end”.
    According to the web site the-numbers.com, the last two Transformers films pulled around $35-40 million in physical media sales. Obviously, streaming sales numbers are unavailable, but we could “guesstimate” at least in the same area. (Dark of the Moon pulled ~$113 million, while Revenge of the Fallen hit a whopping $276 million).

    That doesn’t even count licensing for streaming or cable tv services (I know the franchise is a favorite to air on the FX networks, among others), or that Paramount gets a slice of those sweet toy sales (and have since Studio Series started).

    Again, I’m sure Paramount and Hasbro WANTED the film to be bigger. But what they got (near Bumblebee performance in a market not anywhere NEAR as healthy as when BB was release against strong competition) is still a much better result than what Warner is seeing with Flash or Disney with Indy 5.
     
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  10. PrimeBot

    PrimeBot Well-Known Member

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    Our theaters had it until Barbenheimer released. So that's a month and a half. The Flash was gone by the time July 1st rolled in.
     
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  11. RazorX3000

    RazorX3000 Cybertronian Monkey

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    I disagree. Still nothing like Bay. When I think Bay I think long drawn out unnecessary human scenes, pee pee poo poo humor, sexual implications, shots lingering on women, and bots being an after thought.
     
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  12. PrimeBot

    PrimeBot Well-Known Member

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    The cybertron movie is animated, they aren't using Avatar animation for it.

    Fast 10 barely broke even and Mission Impossible 7 was a massive flop (like losing Paramount atleast 100-150 milion flop).
     
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  13. Terradives

    Terradives Well-Known Member

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    It seems like the 10 minutes of g1 boosted bumblebee quite a bit and temporarily at least saved the movie franchise. I’d go with what actually worked. Go ahead and translate the original opening to cgi and the cartoon intro song and put that as your first movie teaser. Gangbusters.
     
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  14. John Titor

    John Titor Well-Known Member

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    Paramount is currently losing around 100 million on ROTB, as per the calculations above done with current trade laws in mind. Rise of the Beasts Box Office Discussion

    And the comment you quoted was not about profitability, it was about the consumer's willingness to pay to see it in the theatre, so I was just comparing gross then.

    More people paid to see Mission Impossible and Fast 10 in the theatres than ROTB. That is all I said on that particular matter.

    So even when including your estimate for home video sales, the film still wouldn't recoup its full investment, that's rough. Not Flash rough, but still rough. The backend is usually the gravy, all the free money you make from the product you own, once its paid off. Very curious to see where they will go from here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2023
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  15. Michael Kenney

    Michael Kenney Well-Known Member

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    Now I am officially angry with the Transformers fandom. This was our first Transformers movie in five painstaken years, and this is how the fandom repays Hasbro? Now I know I should have went to see it a third time!
     
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  16. KodyCrimson

    KodyCrimson Resident Titans Return fan

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    You're angry with the fandom having differing opinions and tastes and not just consuming the product because "we should be thankful they gave us something"? It's not a free product, we have to pay to go watch it.
    I enjoy the movie and think it's good, but there's plenty of valid reasons to feel just the opposite too.
     
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  17. Terradives

    Terradives Well-Known Member

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    Yeah the flip side is they had 5 years to figure it out and this was the best they could do.
     
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  18. KodyCrimson

    KodyCrimson Resident Titans Return fan

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    Blame upper management for that one and wanting to cram two films into one. I think Caple did pretty well with what he was given though.
     
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  19. JD The Last Autobot

    JD The Last Autobot More Than Meet The Eyes

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    correct, but marketing recovers outside theaters in digital sales, streaming, payments of transmission rights, physical sales, etc. on average ROTB will earn money, the question is when

    he fell in his second weekend, because Elemental and The Flash came out and cut his legs, after the second one did not like it, ROTB recovered in the following weeks, but it was too late
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2023
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  20. Peaceful Soldier

    Peaceful Soldier All Hail Megatron

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    Guys... I think we need Michael Bay back.
    upload_2023-9-3_11-18-35.png

    Yeah lmao, you can even take a look at the fans on this website who are thrashing their own movie.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2023
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