Resolving an apparent discrepancy over Ironhide's CONFIRMED death

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by OG Transformers Fan, Apr 13, 2020.

  1. Longitudinalwave

    Longitudinalwave A Big Fan of (Sound/Shock)wave

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    Here's two more of my favorite errors:
    [​IMG]
    GIANT RUMBLE! (Breakdown's also too large, but Rumble is WAY more noticeable).
    [​IMG]
    This one was Toei, not AKOM, but it's still great. Swindle's just randomly in the hospital with some Protectobots. (He's not there in the next shot, so it wasn't a scripted appearance.) Also, Blades' face is nightmarish.
     
  2. LockdownTF

    LockdownTF Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I just wanted to mention it cos it shows just how tough he is but in hindsight if they did open his tomb then we'd probably have to see him with his head and maybe a portion of his upper body blown off which would've been kind of grissly even for a carton robot corpse.

    [​IMG]

    This is one of my new favourites. I wonder what the combaticons find more confusing the fact Bruticus has shrunk by around 80% or the fact he's there in first place.
     
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  3. Optimus141

    Optimus141 Well-Known Member

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    Ironhide is definitely dead,and his tomb is shown,but I didn't see his actual body in the episode,and technically,we don't see his DEAD body ever.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
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  4. Skull One 75

    Skull One 75 Stoic Soldier

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    Yes you see his name. I have every episode on DVD and my 3 year old watches them daily.

    there is an error tho. As Daniel is reading the tombs names he says huffer when it should be brawn. Those 4 were killed on their ship when the deceptions ambushed them on their way to earth in the beginning of the movie.

    you see huffer later with Kup when there closing the road hot rod tears through to watch the landing with Daniel
     
  5. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

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    I don't think we saw his actual grave (despite the name plaque). Because Megatron shot Ironhide from very close range (and in fiction Megatron was supposed to have a very powerful arm cannon) and Ironhide takes the shot in his head and his back (and his techspec describes him as being vulnerable in his back).

    That killed him, no doubt, but how much of his body was left after that? Plus what did the Decepticons do with the corpses? If they tossed them out then good luck finding that in space. If they remained on board the shuttle, then how much was left of them after the shuttle blew up and crashed?

    Is Ironhide dead? No doubt in my mind. But was there enough left to bury? That I question. No body means no grave. What we saw on the barge was possibly only a cenotaph.
     
  6. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    That’s not Necessarily an error

    Huffer May have been killed in the attack on the city
    Zombie Optimus was pretty gruesome with 1/2 a face
     
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  7. Skull One 75

    Skull One 75 Stoic Soldier

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    Why are we debating this? A marker and a grave serve the same purpose. To pay respects to the deceased. Whether his body’s there or not is irrelevant.


    Unlikely huffer as the guys Daniel was reading off were all the bots go died on the ship. Ironhide, Ratchet, prowl, huffer. That was exactly the sequence Daniel named them off. Logic would assume huffer is brawn. The show is full of errors.

    all the show and movie for the fact was for was to introduce and sell hasbro product. Period
     
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  8. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

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    (Note that the very first line of this topic states the question whether or nor we saw Ironhide's grave, plus there's a claim that we saw Ironhide's corpse or not.)
    No body = not a grave. The very definition of a grave is that it holds a corpse. No body, no grave.

    I question whether or not there was enough left of Ironhide (blown up by Megatron and the exploding ship) to warrant a grave or if there even was a body still on the exploding shuttle (tossed into space by the Decepticons). If there's no body and thus no grave, then we couldn't have seen Ironhide's corpse in Dark Awakening. All it was then was a cenotaph/marker.


    It also has an impact on the question if Ironhide died and if so, how he could be in Headmasters (and other post-movie G1 fiction). If it was an actual grave (thus a corpse) then he's dead. However, if the Decepticons tossed the Autobots into space then this could be used to explain the discrepancy between Dark Awakening (the Autobots believed Ironhide to be dead and erected a cenotaph in his memory) and his appearance in Headmasters (he was found floating in space and repaired).
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
  9. Skull One 75

    Skull One 75 Stoic Soldier

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    No one was saying they saw his corpse and if they did I wasn’t referring to that. I simply chimes in to confirm that his name was visible on the door of his tomb.

    lots of people are buried without bodies and are treated as their “graves”.

    again why are we disputing this. He was smoked. Plain and simple. His tomb was in the ship in the episode dark awakening.

    end of story.


    Ohhhh. I missed that part. Sorry. But I still disagree with you. Just because there’s no body doesn’t mean there’s no grave.


    Wait?! Which headmasters was he in? Not the North American one? I never saw the Japanese one. I’d like to tho
     
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  10. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

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    Sorry, not an opinion so you can't disagree.

    The definition of a grave is that it has a body. If it doesn't have body, then by definition it's not a grave. (If you don't believe me, look it up in a dictionary -- doesn't matter that people use the term incorrectly.)

    He appeared in a wide shot in an episode of the Japanese series Headmaster, the episodes about the Targetmasters. Not a speaking part, just him being one of the Autobots walking around. But he also appeared post-movie in the Unite Warriors (=Combiner Wars) fiction, and of course G2, plus there's a BW Ironhide who's supposedly the G1 character reformatted as a Maximal after the end of the war.

    As I said, I think he's dead and it was definitely the intent of the creators of the movie that Ironhide died. But, it there's no body (either tossed into space or obliterated by Megatron and/or the exploding shuttle), then what we saw in Dark Awakening cannot have been his grave (again, definition of a grave is that it contains a corpse) but his cenotaph (a marker to honour a dead but without a body). And that could be used as an explanation for his later appearances. And there are a lot of appearances by a living Ironhide after his death in the movie...

    I still think he's dead, but there's a continuity problem that can be solved this way.


    (And if you want to see Headmasters, there are quite a few episodes on YouTube.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
  11. Skull One 75

    Skull One 75 Stoic Soldier

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    gotcha.

    but if were gonna nitpick this to death who’s to say the Autobots didn’t find the wreckage later and throw a bunch of parts in a tomb belonging to those fallen.

    we don’t know. To debate is silly.

    on a side note. The guy who came crashing out of the tomb when Daniel mistakenly opened it looked an awful lot like ironhide except for the wrong colour scheme and the fact he was in one piece. I don’t think there would have been much left above his chest after megatron shot him at close range.
     
  12. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I don’t feel anyone is trying to debate it just pointing out that we never saw a body
    what do you consider unlikely?.....that Huffer died in the city or that Danny just happened to mention him along with those others?

    as you pointed out the film and show Existed to sell new toys, as part of the 84 lineup Huffer was almost certainly slated to die anyway

    There’s no logic in assuming anything, including thats it had to be an error when it’s highly likely the writers of dark awakening had no clue who was in the shuttle , fact is the writers of the film and season 3 had almost no communication, it’s highly doubtful that the writers of dark awakening knew who died in the shuttle and not at some other point in the film so I wound out much faith in the fact that 3 of the names Daniel mentioned just happened to be on the ship


    Someone did make that claim
    That also was not a point of contention as it’s been acknowledged by several participants
    what?
    If there’s no body then the person wasn’t “buried” lol
    Again no one was debating whether or not he was dead

    after it crashed into a bit sun?
    you feel he looked like Ironhide?

    wrong chest, wrong head, wrong arms ,wrong mid sections

    Sorry buddy I’m just not seeing it
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
  13. FAKER II

    FAKER II Cheap Repaint

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    Logic doesn't assume anything. That's not how logic works.
     
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  14. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking The world has moved on...we've always said.

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    I'm rolling with Ironhide was actually saved with the damage actually hitting him in the back rather than the head. When the bodies were recovered, both he and Prowl were repaired to the best of First Aid's abilities in secret - Prowl's systems were mostly repaired but were still deteriorating while Ironhide was reconstructed from the waist down into a wheeled mobile unit. Because of his condition, Rodimus sends Prowl, Ironhide and Staxx to Hydrus Four to find a healing energy called Nucleon. Because the mission had to be done in ultra-secrecy to avoid Decepticon detection, both Prowl and Ironhide were deemed "dead" and tombs were set up in their honor. Prowl's team makes the discovery and sends for Convoy after learning about the Hate-Plague incident. But Ironhide and Staxx leave before Convoy can arrive, believing Nucleon held no miracle for them - it was bad enough they lost their legs, they didn't want to also lose the ability to transform.

    I just made that up but I like it...
     
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  15. RKillian

    RKillian http://www.rktoyandhobby.com

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    Somtimes I wonder if people that crap all over Hanna Barbera have ever seen an AKOM episode.
     
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  16. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking The world has moved on...we've always said.

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    Depends on how hard HB was trying at the time. There are some really good looking Gobots episodes - and there are some really awful looking ones too.

    You have some decent shading at least going on here with TOEI-esque backgrounds:
    [​IMG]

    But then you have:
    [​IMG]
     
  17. ABrown

    ABrown Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I acknowledged that earlier in the thread.

    Resolving an apparent discrepancy over Ironhide's CONFIRMED death

    This one I can go either way on. I've always thought that maybe they were supposed to be listing off the characters that were on boards the shuttle. However, I do think that Huffer very likely could have died in the battle as well. So really it works either way.
     
  18. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    AKOM animation is like a headache. 1980s Hanna Barbara animation is like a gushing head wound. Neither one is a fun time, but they are worlds apart in how bad they are.
     
  19. popcorn

    popcorn Well-Known Member

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    I don't think they were concerned with showing grissly things in Dark Awakening LOL. 1     1 zop.jpg hqdefault.jpg
     
  20. JLvatron

    JLvatron Transformer

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    Really dude? No need to be abrasive to other board members.

    [edit: I don't know the context, so take the posters at face value]
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
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