Reasons to respect Michael Bay

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Hotshotprime43, Sep 26, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Driskull98

    Driskull98 Love that Driskullhausen

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Posts:
    3,794
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Niagara County, NY
    Likes:
    +1,883
    Ebay:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    Tumblr:
    Because, though the titular characters are absent for most of those films, the main characters (Dorothy and her friends/The Nostromo crew) have enough development and chemistry to keep our interest instead of complaining about the lack of Wizard/Alien. This cannot be said for the Transformers movies where the characters are nothing but exposition and joke spouting set pieces.

    Each Transformers film has three character archetypes:

    - Serious
    - Humor
    - Eye-Candy

    Annnnnd, that's it. Most of the performances are shallow and lack emotion. It's simply maddening to say they're on par with the cast of Wizard or Alien.
     
  2. Hazekiah

    Hazekiah Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Posts:
    3,522
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +468
    So Bay's unworthy of recognition as a great artist because "all his works are just fart jokes?"

    Y'know, Michelangelo is an interesting choice for comparison, btw.

    Even he had critics in his time, and he responded to one in particular by painting a portrait of him with the ears of an ass and a serpent biting the head of his penis on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, ffs.

    He was hardly above a bit of "toilet humor" himself.

    Haha, thanks...and of course I could, but we're talking about a thread built on the premise of respect for Bay yet filled with page-after-page of the exact opposite of that. So I'm okay with coming across as a little rude or aggressive in my rebuttals here. There's a time and place for everything!

    :) 

    I like the part where you fail to validate even one single thing you said yet still call it a win, lol.

    I was looking for something more along the lines of a response based in fact which might actually disprove the validity of the comparison rather than a subjectively dismissive appraisal of the quality of Bay's human characters and their ability to hold your interest, but thanks anyway.

    Which isn't what I was saying at all.

    And is once more wholly subjective, btw.
     
  3. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Posts:
    731
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Likes:
    +298
    Yeah Driskull98 I don't agree that the cast of alien are better than transformers at all I didn't care for any of the characters in alien specifically because none of them really had a personality I can't really describe any of them but I'll try my best.

    The captain and the leader he has no personality beyond this we know literally nothing else about him.

    The frail and more timid and scared girl this is really her entire role the moment the alien shows up she does really nothing else.

    The jerk basically the only role that character even serves we know his job on the ship he's friends with the black guy and he's a jerk that's all we know.

    The black guy sorry not trying to be racist but I don't know his name. He is the typical black guy at least how they were portrayed back then anyway makes jokes swears a lot gets angry pretty easily but we know nothing about him nothing about his life back home why he joined the crew nothing.

    The chest burster guy is remembered for one reason he is the chest burster guy his personality is well unknown I can't remember anything about that guy at all.

    Ripley and the android were the only characters who had any kind of personality that wasn't generic so I don't agree with you on that one.
     
  4. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Posts:
    4,137
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +2,508
    I think the only reason you even remember Ripley is because of the sequels. There is not much to her in Alien.
     
  5. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Posts:
    731
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Likes:
    +298
    I think you're right Alien is a good movie because it's a good hell great horror movie but the characters aren't the reason the movie is beloved it's beloved for the great horror and suspense so the character comparison doesn't really work.

    Though I could name plenty of things that give the human characters in transformers some depth. For me the movies are improving and I can't wait for what comes next rather it's because of Bay or not I do not know i wouldn't give the credit to one individual very rarely is a single person responsible for either a good or bad film so I don't give Bay all the credit or blame.
     
  6. *Deathblade

    *Deathblade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2003
    Posts:
    1,143
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +489
    So what you are saying is you don't want discussion you want an argument, correct? Becuase that's what you just described..

    There is a way of asserting ones opinion without disrespecting or attempting to invalidate someone else's. You don't have be "wishy washy" to acknowledge a point.

    Amongst the people that dislike the movies, there is an omni present smug undertone that people that like them are stupid. It comes out with the little back handed comments like "catering the lowest demographic" and the oh so great passive aggressive mousetrap of trying to get people that like the movies to prove a negative. I can almost see that shit eating smirk through the keyboard.

    I that don't even like the movies that much and I can see that bullshit a mile away
     
  7. *Deathblade

    *Deathblade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2003
    Posts:
    1,143
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +489
    Exactly, the negative threads about the bayverse FAR outnumber the positives ones. Also there is the fact that people that are happy with something usually don't get on message boards to talk about it.
     
  8. Hot Shot.

    Hot Shot. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2007
    Posts:
    9,530
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +1,944
    Michael Bay will be a forgotten footnote in history 50 years from now, because his movies lack any substance, his SFX will become outdated, and more people will notice how the explosions are actual 4th of July fireworks.

    Michelangelo's work is timeless. Bay's work is throwaway. People will laugh at you if you suggest Bay's movies belong in a museum.

    Driskull is right. But please, shitpost some more. Tell us how Bumblebee peeing on Simmons was a form of expressive art, or something equally absurd as the things you keep insisting on.


    2+2=4 is subjective to some people, too.

    The only reason you think Bayformers are more memorable than the Alien cast is because they're different colors and turned into different cars. If they were all grey and turned into the same pickup, you'd struggle to remember their names too.
     
  9. MnemonicSyntax

    MnemonicSyntax You know what happens to Messiahs, don't you?

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Posts:
    8,981
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +8,203
    Wow, way to completely miss all of the entire point.

    No one said Bay's work was museum worthy.

    No one said Bee peeing on Simmons is expressive art, the point was that even timeless artists tend to go below the belt at times (even literally)

    And the subjective comment? Really? Is that somehow a thinly veiled insult at our intelligence compared to basic arithmetic skills?

    But please "shitpost" some more shit that doesn't even make sense. If you can't follow along, then don't even try.
     
  10. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Posts:
    4,137
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +2,508
    And those people are objectively wrong.
     
  11. NeverDoubt

    NeverDoubt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Posts:
    948
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Likes:
    +8
    At no point did I advocate fighting or disrespecting, so I don't know where that's coming from.

    The point of a debate is to challenge someone else's opinion. I don't mind if someone tells me I'm wrong. I'll simply respond with my own argument. Not complain because they dared to say I'm wrong.
     
  12. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Posts:
    731
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Likes:
    +298
    Actually Hotshot I don't remember any of them because they had no character the human characters in transformers do rather good or bad.

    I would rather have a character I don't like or even multiple over a bunch of characters who I don't care if they live or die that is alien's cast in a nutshell. I don't care if they live or die they are bland they are not unlikable they are all around bland empty nothing.

    Simply put I'll take the worst of characters before I take ones like that at least I will feel something.
     
  13. Hazekiah

    Hazekiah Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Posts:
    3,522
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +468
    LOL, MATHEMATICS ARE LITERALLY THE POLAR OPPOSITE OF SUBJECTIVITY.

    But anyway!

    EXTREMELY popular artists are rarely forgotten by history. Quite the opposite! They've struck a chord with a MASSIVE audience and had their work published and re-published the world over, translated into countless languages and debated for centuries. Michael Bay doesn't NEED a museum, there are literally BILLIONS of copies of his movies floating around on DVD/BD/VHS/etc.

    THE ENTIRE WORLD IS BAY'S MUSEUM.

    Not to mention the inarguable impact he's had upon his craft, as illustrated by the video in the OP. He has influenced his entire field and his sphere of influence extends FAR beyond his own movies...and that's just within his own lifetime.

    Like it or not, MICHAEL BAY WILL LIVE ON.

    That said, I actually AM glad that you somehow picked up on the glaring subtlety of the 4th of July fireworks element, at least. I mean, these are American films MEANT to pack American theaters on the 4th of July and which themselves generally take place on or around that date, lol. Why would they NOT be fireworks displays themselves?

    And how was Bumblebee pissing on Simmons NOT "expressive art," btw?


    CHALLENGE = ACCEPTED


    He had an opinion of Simmons and he very clearly expressed it, lol.

    Likewise, Bay was canny enough to know that his audience would hold that same opinion and skilled enough at his craft to therefore use the ONE character most frequently utilized as an "entry-level" storytelling device and audience-cipher to connect with that audience by expressing that selfsame sentiment.

    Annnnnd there you go.

    BUMBLEBEE PISSING ON SIMMONS = EXPRESSIVE ART...100% SERIOUS!!!

    ;) 
     
  14. NeverDoubt

    NeverDoubt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Posts:
    948
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Likes:
    +8
    Pretty sure that's what artists say when the museum turns them down, hehe.
     
  15. MnemonicSyntax

    MnemonicSyntax You know what happens to Messiahs, don't you?

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Posts:
    8,981
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +8,203
    I did laugh at this, good one.
     
  16. NeverDoubt

    NeverDoubt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Posts:
    948
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Likes:
    +8
    Thank you, I try. :eek: 
     
  17. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    Posts:
    15,966
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +3,205
    At this phase between films we don't have that many people who claim that Bay rode in on a white horse and single handily saved a dead franchise. But I'm sure as we get closer to a release date some of them will return.

    What rather bugs me is the fans who seem to take some weird delight in other fans not getting what they want. I enjoyed Transformers Prime but some of the things that other fans were calling for seemed like they would have been an improvement to the show. So I'm not sure how more interesting humans, tougher Decepticons not easily killed in the last act, changing the tone from lets go darker to lets go more fun, or other improvements would ruin the films forever. Would it really kill people's enjoyment if we got a Transformers film that could get a 90% or better on Rotten Tomatoes?
     
  18. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Posts:
    4,137
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +2,508
    Rotten Tomatoes means nothing to me.
     
  19. MnemonicSyntax

    MnemonicSyntax You know what happens to Messiahs, don't you?

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Posts:
    8,981
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +8,203
    It's not that I don't want you to have what you want, is that when I don't get what I want, I don't make a big fucking stink about it over and over again on an internet forum. I go and, you know, find something else to occupy my time within the very same fandom.

    But again, look who I'm talking to, the guy who isn't ever happy with anything Paramount makes lately and insists that's there is no "rogue's gallery" over and over again, essentially saying that there's nothing left for the Autobots to do and yet is told time again there's plenty of villains and even new opportunities for villains we haven't seen yet, all the while stating that the movies aren't going to get any better and there's no hope for the future even though we've had a thinktank of 12 different writers come together and you're not even giving it a remote chance.
     
  20. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Posts:
    731
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Likes:
    +298
    Well Ash from Carolina that depends what if movies that have a 90% on rotten tomato fans of the movies don't like it's why whenever someone says the movies should go to marvel I speak up immediately specifically because ninety percent or not I don't like them as much. A ninety on Rotten tomato simply doesn't mean anything. Critics and I rarely agree they seem to prefer more simplistic and straightforward plots I prefer a story that is very busy with a lot going on like Age of Extinction critics prefer something like Avengers. I don't want that I leave a transformer movie feeling great feeling excited and emotional and just everything. I leave a marvel movie feeling excited but it fades fast I feel empty because for me there was nothing there beneath all the action.

    The movie that makes me feel empty is the movie critics and fans want it to be sorry but no I don't want that. Better human characters I feel it's already happening, tougher Decepticons I can agree on this but only named ones I don't care if the drones die easily.

    More fun less dark. No no NO I love this franchise and I take it very seriously the dark transformer shows are the ones I like the light hearted ones are the ones I dislike so yes that would ruin the films for me.

    I love Optimus in these movies no more of that, I love the slightly political side with the government plots no more of that, I like stories like the space conspiracy and Laserbeaks assassination or the autobots being brutally hunted and murdered or Sentinels betrayal or the Chicago massacre and the fall out from it. no more of that.

    I like that for once the Decepticons actually feel like they can destroy the earth they feel like a threat to the entire human race this is because finally the decepticons can kill they can kill autobots and they can slaughtered humans it's horrible and sad but it makes them an actual threat. more light no more of that either.

    Basically if the movies became more light less dark they won't be the movies I like. I'm sorry you would prefer them more light really I truly am you deserve to enjoy the movies as much as anyone but the movie you want removes almost everything I like about them. I don't want you to not get what you want or any fan for that matter but what you want counteracts what I like I mean what am i supposed to do there.

    It would get higher scores and be critically respected but I don't care it lost nearly everything I love about them it's finally well regarded the price, I lost my favorite movie franchise because of it.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.