Reasons to respect Michael Bay

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Hotshotprime43, Sep 26, 2015.

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  1. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    Except for the fact that many have argued why they see these as respectable films and have found plenty of depth to be found the problem is most people here just dismiss it and say yeah right it's Bay or Kruger's an idiot no way he could think of that.

    Basically we state things and you ignore them stating that there's no way any meaningful depth or message in the film is anything but accidental because naturally it's Bay. This thread further proves this something that proves Bay has done good and it still turns into a Bay sucks thread.

    This is very annoying because while I will certainly admit Bay has his flaws in certain areas the as they are called haters (though I hate that term) refuse to acknowledge anything positive about him. It really is a one sided conversation because so many people here refuse to admit that Bay is capable of anything good.
     
  2. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan DEFIANTLILHORDE

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    Yes Lord Tron, lots of very good, thoughtful, interesting and well researched arguments have been put forward in defence of these movies, to show how they are good and respectable movies.

    And yet still, they aren't.
     
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  3. Hazekiah

    Hazekiah Banned

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    Except my point was clear and it does?

    Do you speak English?

    I believe I was fairly clear and succinct.

    Why don't YOU go ahead and ditch your failing attempts at pithy, bullshit, ridiculous replies and INSTEAD contribute something worthwhile for a change? Perhaps THEN you'll finally either stop needlessly derailing interesting conversations with your inability to understand well-constructed points or else POSSIBLY even ask a pertinent question and learn something. Who knows! Anything's possible.

    ;) 

    You DO realize that what "whiny complainers" want and what "biggest budget, highest profile media" require are generally two INHERENTLY INCOMPATIBLE concepts...right?!?

    o_O 

    Sooo...Dorothy's journey to The Wizard of Oz in The Wizard of Oz IS NOT comparable to Sam's journey to the Transformers in Transformers for WAT reason, exactly?!? With one movie you already know some girl is gonna meet a wizard and with another you already know some boy's gonna meet a robot. This isn't exactly apples and oranges here, ffs.

    And DID one movie actually mislead its audience relative to the other?!?


    Yeahhhh, they only say the equivalent of "Transformers" like A HUNDRED GODDAMNED TIMES, lolfail.

    Pretty sure the trailers focused on Dorothy's journey AT LEAST as much as Sam's.

    Oh, and WOW...a weak-ass (nonsense!) bullshit Strawman Argument supports YOUR point. Color me shocked!

    If someone's criticizing Transformers for not featuring the Transformers enough when they're the title characters then they need to STFU and go watch Alien.

    The fact that one's structured as a shadowy horror movie and the other features the "monsters" in full daylight for EASILY ten times as much screentime (at least!) really isn't supporting YOUR point, fwiw.

    END OF.

    G1 was 100% built around Transformers interaction with humans.

    I mean, firstly, there's the toys themselves. But I'll admit that's kinda meta.

    Then there's the fact that the Transformers were given alt. modes to disguise themselves amongst contemporary human culture.

    The comic books AND cartoon BOTH centered around Transformers interacting with the Witwickys.

    Spike and/or Buster BOTH essentially BECAME Transformers in the comic. They even made Buster the brains of Fortress Maximus! Don't even get me STARTED on Headmasters, Targetmasters, Powermasters, Pretenders, etc.

    Even Spike's son Daniel basically transformed in his exo-suit and had a questionable interspecies, quasi-statutory romantic subplot with Arcee, ffs. (pun intended)

    There are A MILLION other examples, but OKAY...it was ALL about "the freakin' robots," lol.

    THAT must be why the Autobots almost ALWAYS win by cooperating with humans. Why "More than Meets the Eye" was structured around Spike's journal writings. Why Buster saved the Matrix. Why Sparkplug saved the Autobots by sabotaging the fuel of the Decepticons.

    Go on, tell me more.

    :banghead: 

    OMFG THANK YOU.

    Just for the record, I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate my point that HOLY FUCK the Transformers movies feature their titular characters WAY MORE than equivalent films with FAR CHEAPER effects.

    Once again, people need to THINK ABOUT THAT and STFU.

    YUP.

    SITUATION = NORMAL.

    :banghead: 

    HEY, HERE'S A THOUGHT FOR EVERYONE:

    [​IMG]

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsbpyDlz25k

    NOLAN & CAMERON
    BOTH LOVE MICHAEL BAY
    OMFG STFU
    -____-

     
  4. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan DEFIANTLILHORDE

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    These blind Baylove conversations you and your inner circle have wouldn't be so easy to derail if they weren't based largely in such utter bull shit.

    Now about the point of the Aliens screentime in the Alien movie, a movie about space travellers finding a stalky alien, and Transformers screentime, in a movie about Transformers landing on earth, I know you don't really believe that it's comparable, because only a fucking idiot would, and I'm sure you're not.
     
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  5. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Taking a break

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    Ahem, moving this discussion back to the video, I have to agree with most of those points. I do believe that, if nothing else, Bay is a master of action scenes. DOTM is the only time I've been completely let down by the action in one of his films. However, #2 is exactly why my respect for him is limited and begrudgingly given. He refuses to evolve. There is absolutely no reason why an action film for teens can't have a good story. Also, it was almost as soon as I became a teen that I started seeing the flaws in his films, funnily enough.

    As a side note, I didn't know that he launched the careers of many of those actors or that both stars of Bad Boys being black was a big deal at the time. If that's true, I guess it kinda debunks the idea that he's purposefully racist, which I've always had my doubts about, anyway.
     
  6. electronic456

    electronic456 Well-Known Member

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    There's no denying the hate for Bay but the guy is still amazing as I look into his career. I mean so many film directors such as David Gordon Green, Neil Blomkamp, Todd Phillips, Marc Webb, Barry Sonenfeld, Joss Whedon, Nicolas Winding Refn, Guillermo Del Toro, JJ Abrams and Jon Favreau respect him or are influenced by his work.

    Here's what Nicholas Winding Refn had to say (director of Drive (which is an intriguing film by the way)
    "Only God Forgives" Director Nicolas Winding Refn On The Creative Freedom That Comes With Making Divisive Art | Co.Create | creativity + culture + commerce
    "I’m a huge Michael Bay fan," Refn declares, perhaps in jest, perhaps not. "I think The Rock is a really well-conceived film. I think technically, it’s incredibly inspiring. Those Transformers movies are just incredible. I have a lot of respect for Michael Bay."


    Here's Neil Blomkamp:
    Blomkamp has a more measured take: “It’s not just blowing stuff up,” he says. “I like the way he composes scenes and action. He’s inspiring.” (Turns out Blomkamp is a longtime Bay fanboy; when he was 19, he made a failed pilgrimage to LA to meet the man.)
    Elysium's Director Thinks His Hellish Paradise Is Our Future. Let's Hope He's Wrong | WIRED


    Marc Webb (it's not just the ASM series)
    He's a brilliant visualist who does something very few people in the world can do. In this film, there is a spectacle to things I want to embrace. If that's used in service of creating drama for that character, and exploring a physical or emotional dilemma, then it feels great.
    Marc Webb Talks With Rolling Stone On THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 2: 'I Want The Audience To Be *Thwipping* Thrilled'

    ‘Chef’s’ Jon Favreau: ‘I Shoot Food the Way Michael Bay Shoots Women in Bikinis’Chef’s’ Jon Favreau: ‘I Shoot Food the Way Michael Bay Shoots Women in Bikinis’
    He can help directors shoot appealing shots.

    And a final article sample:
    David Gordon Green (who has directed Joe, which brought Nicholas Cage's career back to life)
    David Gordon Green Defends Michael Bay

    So overall, personally I'm glad I'm hesistant in hating Bay because I must admit the first Transformers introduced to me into the world of film. So thanks for that. Hell Jeremy Jahns and Nostalgia Critic would not have existed on Youtube or Blip(for that matter) if it weren't for him, so I guess he's a necessary 'sin' to our entertainment system?

    Maybe someone could ask Jeannine Basinger how was Bay at film school. So yeah there's my input to this thread....

    Also I have to say I don't go around hating any specific director cause they all have their potential somewhere. Yeah that even applies to the really bad ones like Uwe Boll too. Hell look at how people have responded to M Night Shymalan's The Visit and how it compares to the other recent films he made.
     
  7. Weezie

    Weezie Well-Known Member

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    I don't care for Michael Bay's films as a whole but I do appreciate what he has done for the franchise. His films aren't the end all and be all of TF, luckily, there is lots of other stuff out there. If it wasn't for Bayformers, we wouldn't have TF Prime, which was my favourite TF cartoon ever. Every cloud has a silver lining :D 

    I do agree with him when he called out Hugo Weaving on his whining, however.
     
  8. B13

    B13 Well-Known Member

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    Just watched the video.
    yeeeah....
    kinda....
    Some qualities, but no great movies! hehehe
    Just my opinion.
     
  9. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    It would be nice if Bay was the only problem because replace one guy and things would get better.

    But Bay only seems like one cog in the machinery of bad. Paramount doesn't have a very good track record with taking something people liked somewhere else and turning it into films that almost everyone can love. GI Joe is a live action mess. Trekkies weren't happy with the pale rip off of Wraith of Khan that into Darkness was. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie didn't win over everyone. The new Terminator movie turned off lots of Terminator fans. About the only bright spot is Mission Impossible fans can say MI5 was pretty damn good.

    The producers haven't been old fan friendly either so even if Bay said "screw you guys I'm going home" we'd still be stuck with producers with a hostile attitude towards old fans.

    It would take more than just a shift in directors to be able to build up any sort of hope.

    To find a production team looking out for old fans you have to go to some other studio because Paramount is not an old fan friendly studio. They want the pop culture names but it seems like they would love to get those names without any old fans attached to it. Even when other studios take in large domestic hauls aiming films at old and new fans Paramount seems dead set on new fans only.
     
  10. evilgrin

    evilgrin Active Member

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    If you feel like you have to defend Michael Bay, then on some level you must realize something is wrong. You can give him a pass for the first couple movies, and I think that is pretty fair. You can give people all the eye candy they want, and still create a great story with good dialogue. He is just doing Fast and Furious with Robots, and he is gonna keep doing it til the money flow slows down. The business side of things always wins.
     
  11. Bass X0

    Bass X0 Captain Commando

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    Did we really need all the drug and sexual references in Transformers movies? All of them should have been cut and never shown.

    That was okay. That was the only one that should have been kept.
     
  12. astrakhan

    astrakhan Well-Known Member

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    I refuse to have any respect for a director who says he can put out whatever he wants because the "haters" will see it anyway.
     
  13. *Deathblade

    *Deathblade Well-Known Member

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    Key point that's lost here. You hold your personal opinion as some type of empirical irrefutable fact.

    :rolleyes2  Same as all the movie hate threads, plenty of buckets of bullshit as fact and smarmy elitist "I know better than you" in those too.


    The only thing I got out of that was the "fandoms" for each movie didn't like the movies. That's pretty common and expected, if nothing else, the "fandoms" are consistent. No studio should EVER have pleasing a "fandom" as any sort of goal because it isn't attainable. As far as the movies, you mentioned...I loved both the star trek movies, EVERY one of the terminator movies, disliked the joe and turtle movies.


    I find it's the people that hate the movies that should realize something's wrong if they feel the need to "debunk" any one's optimism about the movie-verse, and yet here it is. There cannot even be ONE SINGLE THREAD saying positive things about the movies/bay without the SAME people expressing SAME opinions ad nauseam.
     
  14. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    While you can't please every last fan I'm going to disagree that a studio can't please the fandom.

    Go around a convention that covers lots of fandoms and ask people how they feel about different films. GI Joe fans like to joke "what movie" while Batman fans will talk your ear off about how much they loved The Dark Knight. Go around long enough and you can find a Batman fan that hates the film but for the most part Batman fans loved the Dark Knight.

    I don't find fandoms to be consistent at all. Some of them are overwhelming happy with how studios strike the balance between them and the new people. Some fandoms are split pretty much down the middle where half the fans are happy with what the studio is doing while half are upset where the studio is going with it. Then you have fandoms where almost all the fans feel like they got the bad end of things.

    It think pleasing fans can be a good goal for studios. Jurassic World hauled in $650 million domestically by going hey let's try to please that Jurassic Park fan base. Star Wars is looking at a huge haul and part of building that excitement has been going hey old fans look Han and Chewie. Deadpool generated lots of positive buzz by playing up fan boy hopes with something that looks more comic book than Wolverine Origins.
     
  15. NeverDoubt

    NeverDoubt Well-Known Member

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    The ones who deserve respect are the creative teams behind the comics, various animated series, and heck even the toy manufacturers, who will never get the recognition they deserve.
     
  16. *Deathblade

    *Deathblade Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don't see anything JP new world did to "cater to the fandom" If anything the movie was more of the same. If you liked JP you probably liked it. If you hate JP you probably left feeling the same.

    Star wars fandom is just as un-pleasable as the transformers fandom. Inter- strife about old trilogy vs new trilogy, expanded universe, clone wars, rebels, etc. The same exact BS here is there, and the only thing that is for certain, is that these same BS circular arguments that have been around here since 07 will start anew in Dec.

    Deapool is the new "hip" pop culure icon. People are going to flock to it off that alone, but yeah being closer to the comic does seem like a goal so far.

    Fandoms are consistent in this, There are ALWAYS groups of persons that feel the need to feel superior from their contemporaries in the same fandom. Transformers has

    G1 vs movie-verse/beast wars/armada trilogy/etc
    MISB vs openers
    Takara vs Hasbro
    MP vs everything else
    Third Party vs everything else
    IDW vs everything else

    Notice a theme here? In each one of those, a group of persons that likes whatever thing feels the need to lord it over other persons, and treat them as their tastes are inferior.

    Every other fandom has that same crap, like 60s Joes vs 80s Joes vs ME, o-ring vs ME sculpts.

    Turtles has comic verse vs 90s turtles vs all the different iterations since then.

    Power Rangers has Super Sentai vs 90s vs speed/turbo/ninja etc...

    Batman is no different, animated series vs newer ones, debate on the movies/ disagreements over the new gotham series, etc...And I have heard many a person complain about the new movies being "too dark" so yeah...thats not as cut and dry as you tried to make it either.

    Fandoms are consistent in the ubiquitous mentality of certain persons in whatever fandom "knowing better than others" and dismissal of persons that don't agree. I have yet to see this overly happy shangra la fandom that agrees on anything that you speak of, and that's between marvel universe, DC universe, terminator, heman, gi joe, turtles, star wars, robotech/macross, gi joe...thats just off the top of my head.

    Oh yeah, then there's terminators and aliens, both of which, the vocal majority of their "fandoms" tend to think reached their height at part II and everything else after sucked. What does that have in common with EVERY OTHER fandom I mentioned? Why person's holding 20+ yeah old versions close to their bosoms of course.
     
  17. Driskull98

    Driskull98 Love that Driskullhausen

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    This is quite possibly one of the stupidest fucking comparisons I've ever seen regarding the Transformers films.

    And I like the films. Hell, ROTF is my favorite in the franchise.

    Also, pro tip: Large, bold font doesn't make your point any more valid.
     
  18. eagc7

    eagc7 TF Movieverse fan

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    well in a way its sort of true, the films keep getting hated, yet people still go to see it (as seen by the fact DOTM and AOE both made billions, despite mixed to negative receptions, while other films that are hated, flops, like Fantastic Four)
     
  19. MnemonicSyntax

    MnemonicSyntax You know what happens to Messiahs, don't you?

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    Still killin' it! :thumb 
     
  20. Dark Skull

    Dark Skull Well-Known Enabler Veteran

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    Hmmm for you, I'll come back and reply.

    Oh that's right, anything is possible. Including you making such bullshit, stupid-ass wild eyed nonsensical comparisons and analogies on a consistent basis. You realize your reputation on here is just that. And ONLY that. Now you resort to insults. Great addition to your accolades there.

    Of course not! It is NOT comparable because that is NOT what Transformers is supposed to be in the first place! What do YOU not get about other people's gripes here? And let me throw your own question back in your face with a follow up: DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH? CAN YOU EVEN READ? You only want people to understand your opinions but you continually ignore and blatantly dismiss other people's opinions just to shove yours down their throats with oversized fonts. Yeah no. It's not gonna work, it will never work, and if you can't tell, it sure as shit it ain't working here.

    And what the in holy fuck is that supposed to mean? Did one movie mislead it's audience? To answer that, I'm gonna use your oversized font gimmick because that's the only thing you seem to be able to comprehend: NO IT DID NOT BECAUSE THE MOVIE WAS BASED OFF OF A BOOK THAT WAS WRITTEN WELL BEFORE THE MOVIE WAS EVER PRODUCED! THE STORY IN AND OF ITSELF WAS WELL UNDERSTOOD AND ALREADY KNOWN SO THERE WAS NO MISLEADING!

    For Fucks sake dude! At least do some gawddamned research on the shit you're trying to put down before you make yourself look nothing but an ignoramus. Seriously. Your arguments, threads, wild eyed crazy ass blind fanboy ass posts are totally flawed and make no gawddamn sense. The only fail here is YOU. Consistently YOU and your inner circle of willfully blind fanboys who actively refuses see the forest from the trees.

    And before anyone wants to get offended by that, I'm only referring to a few, coz for holy flying fucksticks! Only a few can actually turn a thread into such a debacle. Of all the threads I've read in the movie forum, most actually get their points across with a level head and make very good, well written and thought out posts. Then there's the incessant trolls. Then you got guys like Hazekiah.

    The only person in this entire thread guilty of bullshit Strawman Arguments is YOU. And so far, ONLY YOU. "My point" is actually a fact of what the character actually is, AS DEPICTED by the movies in the franchise. In fact, if you bothered to actually do any kind of research instead of spouting off nonsensical bullshit (like all the damned time) and making yourself look like you have not a fucking clue as to what the fuck you're talking about, you'd actually know the movie and franchise of Alien is about Sigourney Weaver's character! And even THAT was well understood and known by anyone who watched the fucking movies whether they enjoyed it or not. So there is NO strawman argument on my end.

    However, on YOUR end, there is much informational fallacy because you neglect to actually take into account WHY people are complaining about the human involvement in the Bay movies, and the movies you're desperately and pathetically trying to reach into to "make a point." The major driving reason of why they are complaining is the AMOUNT of human involvement and screentime in the movies. Hell, I don't really care about that complaint, but EVEN I FUCKING CAN TELL! So I must throw that same question and follow up back to you: HOW CAN YOU NOT? AGAIN, ARE YOU SPEAKING ENGLISH? CAN YOU EVEN READ?

    And...I have watched all of the Alien movies. So umm....yeah I at least know what I'm referring to here. But it's painfully clear you either didn't watch either movie you're trying to put down or you didn't pay any attention to what the fuck was going on in the movies. AT ALL. At the very least, you're reading into the movies only what you want to and only taking tid bits WAAAAAY out of context to formulate your arguments.

    PATHETIC!

    First off, you should stop banging your head. I think that explains why you're not able to fully comprehend anything you're watching, nor can you make a sound argument that's actually reasonable, logical, or intelligent. Again, you've failed to understand any of why people are complaining about Bay movies and the amount of human interaction. You're desperately grabbing at ANYTHING to make for an argument and again, that's quite pathetic.

    Secondly, I'm going to go explain WHY and WHAT people are actually complaining about since YOU FAILED to comprehend anything other than your own bullshit. If you actually paid any attention of how much overall screentime the humans had in any iteration, you'd automatically know that the TFs had the majority of it because....oh gee....Transformers was supposed to be about.........*drumroll*.....TRANSFORMERS!!!! :eek:  *gasp*! What a concept! And you know what else? It's always been understood that that was what the show was supposed to be about from the very get go! The humans actually played a secondary roll next to the main characters. They were more or less equivalent to SIDEKICKS! That's what long time fans remember. That's what long time fans were seeing whether they were watching G1, Beast Wars, etc etc etc. It wasn't until Bay movies and TF Prime that humans had more screentime on them. And it always has been like that up to the Bay movies and TF Prime!

    Again, if you actually paid any attention to what you were looking/watching objectively instead of with your Bay blinders on, you'd actually be able to see a variety of other points that render your arguments rather moot. But I'm getting the feeling that with as many times as you've banged your head against the wall because others have actually successfully refuted your arguments, that the bone structure in your skull has become so dense from calcification, it is incapable of soaking in any other information that the illogical diarrhea that your brain constantly comes up with.


    You should seriously take your own advice. The only reason why some people on here even entertain your posts/threads is because you make them laugh. And not in the good way. But even in proving my point, you continue to do so because YOU THINK they're actually supporting your highly flawed arguments. Again, take your own advice and think again. But do take off those Bay blinders before you do. It'll help you in your quest to actually make a fair and valid point for once.

    Unlike you, I'm going to be fair here. I get it. You LOVE the Michael Bay Transformers. As I've said multiple times, even I've enjoyed the movies myself too. But unlike you, I don't have blinders on and I can actually see the movies for what they were. And again, unlike you, I'm not gonna criticize others for liking the Bay movies or disliking them. But what I am critizing YOU for here (so that's clear) is the fact that you consistently ignore everything else that would render your arguments incorrect or anything VALID as to why people don't like what Michael Bay as done. And that seems like it's something you absolutely cannot have, criticism. You can be as insulting as you want. You can make up as much wild eyed crazy ass logical fallacies as you want. But it doesn't take away from the fact that you just can't accept anyones opinion as just that. Their opinion.

    I'll end with this: No matter how you put it, until you can actually formulate an intelligent, researched based, non-biased opinion for your arguments, (you can post an even greater wall of text) it's all going to boil down to one word. Bullshit.

    Have a nice day!

    P.S.

    No, I will not STFU.

    I don't think he'll understand any of that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
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