Real Health of the Game?

Discussion in 'Transformers Trading Card Game (TCG) Discussion' started by Darkprime, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. Darkprime

    Darkprime Antigrav Singular Destron

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    I've been wondering, just how healthy is this game today? It's been out for over a year and has had a few expansion sets and a bunch of other promo related things (like the oversized cards). Admittedly I haven't been playing the game, but I have collected all the cards and hope to play (I will probably need to play via webcams or something like that online). But that's not my point. In the first wave, it was really easy to trade and sell cards to other people who were interested in the game or wanted to collect the cards. Wave 2 (combiners) wasn't bad either as it introduced a big new feature and had lots of characters we hadn't had yet. Wave 3 came and at least from what I've seen on a few sites that help players BST, much fewer people are buying and trading cards. With Wave 4 it seems to have decreased more, not grown. Not just that, but the values for cards has been dropping a lot, with most rare characters selling at the $5 or so mark.

    I'm sure there are lots of fans like myself that are buying boxes to create complete sets, I get that. But it seems like there are way more sellers than buyers now, and even trading seems tough (because it seems like more people want to sell their stuff and buy what they need). Even looking here, the number of people posting to BST has come way down, even factoring in the pruning of the BST thread by the mods. So what do people think, is the game getting hotter around you or has the interest peaked? Or has Hasbro/WOTC pushed out too much product too fast and the market needs to readjust?
     
  2. CybertronianFan

    CybertronianFan Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the area. Coutry-wide the game is doing excellently. However, that greatly varies city to city. I know in New Jersey the game is doing well. Here in Florida, it's doing very well in Miami and Orlando (can't say the same for my immediate area of West Palm Beach). But there areas that the game isn't thriving at all due to lack of interest, lack of people wanting to invest into yet another card game (taking into account the amount of $$ they've already invested in their current card game of preference), or people just not being aware.

    Concerning card values dropping. A lot has to to do with 2ndary market and perceived value. Majority of it is what I call "Hyped Value" were a card increases in price due to what people imagine will do well and rarity (ex: Octone). This also happens when certain cards also get noticed at major tournaments (recent price hike in Cliffjumper), and (of course) supply & demand especially concerning out of print cards (recent price decline in 2018 SDCC cards). Usually when the hype drops down or people notice the card isn't appearing as much at major tournies, value tends to drop (ex: Nemesis & OPBL).

    There are a lot of sellers because, like MtG, people want to make $$ off cards. Imagine pulling a SRT that you're not interested in, already have, or simply you're aware you can get $60-$90 for just that single card. Tempting prospect to sell it vs trading or holding onto it, no?

    The game has a lot more recognition now than it did a year ago. Despite this, it still has a lot of room to grow in popularity. Magic will still topple this game due to its decades of presence. Pokomon/Vanguard/Dragon Ball also due to their length of time on the field compared to this one. But make no mistake: this game is continuously growing.
     
  3. DrTraveler

    DrTraveler Wheeljack, Wheeljack, Wheeljack

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    The cheap prices on CCG singles for the game isn’t a great sign. And as said above, it sounds like it’s hit or miss if your community has a group playing. I suspect this would have done better as an LCG.

    My biggest concern for the long term health of the game is the mechanics itself. This is a game that measures costs during play using card plays. That’s not a great system. Star Trek TNG CCG tried that and it left that approach with the second edition. It’s just too hard to balance that kind of cost mechanism.

    It’s also weirdly non interactive in that other than secret actions you can’t interact with an opponent during their turn. Highlander and I think the WWE CCG had that kind of structure and it lends itself to cheese very very quickly. Worse it handles cheese badly.

    You can see that already with the Daring Escape complaints. The game should be able to handle the card. It’s not an over the top win condition. But the non-interactive nature of the turns means once it starts you can not stop it. Well, unless you played one of the rare covert actions during your turn which meant you blew a card play wondering if your opponent might play an abusive card next turn. Not great.

    Long run I just don’t see a future for the game because of the mechanics. The card design and art is great. The creative team is incredibly inventive. But long run? The mechanics of the game are just too troublesome.
     
  4. Carnage73

    Carnage73 Well-Known Member

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    Which WWE CCG are you referring to? I played WWE Raw Deal produced by Comic Images and that game had plenty of reversals that you could play on an opponent's turn.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  5. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

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    I can't speak for anyone else but myself because I haven't had too much interaction with other people interested in the card game to tell.

    For me personally my interest did indeed peek with Rise of the Combiners. I see the Siege Cards at Wal Mart and I bought a couple packs just to see what it was about. I did the same thing with Wave 1 before Rise of the Combiners...

    I've mostly been buying the Starter kits. And I think I'll continue to pick those up because I feel like they're more worth the money to me. The booster packs... a big reason I haven't gotten into them as much is because there's only ONE character card in each pack. That kinda changed with Siege as each pack now has TWO character cards, one larger character and one Battlemaster or other smaller character. But I would be more into those booster packs if they offered more.

    I use to collect Pok'emon cards when I was younger and I seem to recall each booster pack having a random assortment of both Pok'emon and Trainer cards not just one single Pok'emon and a small assortment of trainer cards. I think those booster packs are about the same price too but they come with less cards. They just don't feel worth it to me.

    Not to mention the fact that you don't know what you're getting until you open the pack so you're always risking spending money just to get a card you already own. It's much less of a risk of getting duplicates when there's more than a single card per pack.

    That said... I was buying a lot more booster packs when I was trying to complete Combiner sets and I still find myself buying Rise of the Combiner cards whenever I see them and totally ignoring Siege. Like I saw a single pack of Combiner cards at Wal Mart in Stockton among multiple Siege booster packs. I bought that singe Combiner booster and didn't touch any of the Siege cards they had there. I've also been finding these boxes that contain 1 Rise of the Combiners booster pack and 2 Siege booster packs... That's actually where most of my Siege cards have come from is because I've been buying those boxes for that one pack of Combiners cards. I'm still trying to complete my combiner sets and I just don't really care about the other cards.

    I also still need to find that Soundwave vs. Blaster starter pack. I haven't seen that yet but I am getting it whenever I can find one.

    I think they could bring interest up if they made cards for other characters besides just G1. Like seriously if they did Beast Era sets I'd be all over those trying to collect every single card in that wave. But they're not really doing anything interesting like that to attract more players who might want something different like that. It's only been four waves and considering the last two were both Siege it already feels like they're running out of ideas... how can you be running out of ideas when you have more than 30 years of ideas of ideas to pull from? Oh because you're only doing G1 stuff.

    I like playing the game more than I do collecting the cards. And the starter sets give you everything you need to play. Booster packs aren't really necessary unless you're hunting down specific cards that can only be obtained in those packs. Just not many cards really seem that interesting to me.

    Also I think they could of done more with the combiners... like SEACONS. Why did they only have one wave of combiners?
     
  6. CybertronianFan

    CybertronianFan Well-Known Member

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    Except we didn't. Wave 4 (Siege II) introduced two more combiners: Sky Tread and Captain Omega Supreme. Mind you, they're not the combiners we are used to seeing, but they are "combiners". Unless they do another Combiner focused set (say like Rise of the Combiners II), we won't see a set that has an abundance of combiners in them, but make no mistake we will see more combiners come future sets.
     
  7. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

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    Those aren't combiners. Sky Tread is a Duocon with two vehicle modes that transform into a single robot. Omega Supreme is also a character with multiple vehicle mode parts but they are all Omega Supreme.

    A combiner is two or more individual characters who form together into a larger robot... or in the case of Dreadwing a larger vehicle but that's still two entirely different characters combining.

    Both the tank and the Jet are still Sky Tread. He's more of a... for lack of a better term... splitter rather than a combiner because the individual parts are still the same character. It's not two characters combining into one, it's just one character from the start.

    And a Rise of the Combiners 2 is exactly what I meant when I said why didn't get we get more than one wave of them. There are four waves of cards out right now. Wave 1 I don't think really had any sort of theme to it, it's just wave 1. Wave 2 was Rise of the Combers. Waves 3 and 4 are both Siege. I would of much rather had two waves of Combiners than a second wave of Siege.

    There's still more Combiners they could make cards for. Just look at this wiki page for a list of Combiners. There's also a section on this page that explains why Sky Tread and Omega Supreme are not combiners a lot better than I just did.

    Combiner - Transformers Wiki
     
  8. CybertronianFan

    CybertronianFan Well-Known Member

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    ^^

    As stated, they are combiners, but not the kind we're used to seeing. People forget that despite this game being based on a franchise, this is first and foremost a card game. A lot of that does not, or cannot, get translated directly into the game. It's the reason we see headmasters without their "heads" and characters that are combiners when in the lore they're not.
     
  9. DrTraveler

    DrTraveler Wheeljack, Wheeljack, Wheeljack

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    Whoops, I am probably remembering that wrong. I thought you played actions, moves, and then handed back the turn control so they could reverse and take their turn. That wasn't it was it? Did the turn order change when you successfully reversed?
     
  10. Carnage73

    Carnage73 Well-Known Member

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    If you reversed a maneuver or action from hand, the turn order changed. The turn order could also change if you flipped (in the game, it was referred to as overturning) a reversal while taking damage. For example, a Chair Shot was a strike that dealt 10 damage. If I flipped a card that reversed strikes &/or any maneuvers while resolving the damage before taking the full 10, I now gained priority in turn order.
     
  11. DrTraveler

    DrTraveler Wheeljack, Wheeljack, Wheeljack

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    Right. I’d forgotten. I used to play the Rock with Brahma Bull as my deck of choice in that one.
     
  12. agp

    agp Well-Known Member

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    The game, like most games that aren't pokemon or magic has interest varying on region. We have a very large and popular lgs but it's still struggling here. We have dedicated play group but no growth. We've tried demo days and tournaments. I was surprised that for as big of store as we have we had no travelers for the energon qualifier.

    I'm a firm believer that if you want a strong national presence you need a strong tournament system. The energon qualifier/invitational is a good start. They need to introduce tournament prize support. Alternate arts or foils for winning/top 4 helps drive interest. It gives serious players a reason to show up besides wining packs containing cards they already own.

    I don't think the game is in any danger of dying. The turnout for the energon invitational at pax was really good from all that I've heard. There is still a lot of room for growth though.
     
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  13. Vasili

    Vasili Well-Known Member

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    I’m surprised more of the core Transformers fans haven’t gotten into the game. I got into the TCG later on (just before wave 3) and I remember being surprised more people weren’t talking about the game, specifically on this sub-forum and via the traditional TF podcasts. It’s tough to gauge the interest level. Certainly the game needs time to grow and have new players come on board (like I did)...but when you go to the store and only see other TCG product, hard to say the game is a “success” from that perspective.
     
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  14. agp

    agp Well-Known Member

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    The subreddit for the game is pretty slow too. 2020 will be the make or break year for the game. If it doesn’t pickup I think you’ll start to see the player base erode. I really don’t know what it would take to kill the game, but I’m not worried for the near future.
     
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  15. butchrecon72

    butchrecon72 Well-Known Member

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    Personally I don't play the game. Just dont have the time. However I do collect the character cards. I am 99% sure I have them all from all 4 waves, including promos, starter boxes and such. I will continue buy with each wave.
     
  16. Aaron

    Aaron Master of Crystalocution Moderator Content Contributor

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    The Facebook group appears to be what got all the traction. For as much as I tried to direct people here early on.
     
  17. CybertronianFan

    CybertronianFan Well-Known Member

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    Same, alas can't beat the ease of Facebook and how many people it can quickly reach out towards.
     
  18. PlanckEpoch

    PlanckEpoch Crossdresser Toy Collector

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    TCGs are expensive. Given the toy hobby is getting more expensive every two years, it's hard for me to get into a new TCG. I used to play Magic for a long, long time. You spend a metric ass ton of money there and I'm not willing to repeat that for the TF TCG.

    Time is another big thing. I can't spend hours at a FLGS to play TCGs anymore, even on the weekends. Usually got other commitments and things I wanna do for fin, like shooting or what not.
     
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  19. Dolf

    Dolf New England Transformers Collectors Group member

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    I'm with you. I jumped in head first with Wave 1 and 2. Saw the money I was spending to essentially "collect" all the cards and how it correlated to the amount of time I had to actually play (plus the lack of interest in my immediate area), I quickly stopped.

    Trust me, I still follow the new releases and hope, as a core Transformers fan I enjoy the artwork and all that, but not enough to justify continuing to support the game via purchasing cards.

    I'd sell everything I have if I could, but I am pretty sure based on the drop in card prices and the over-saturation of the market with cards now for those that do play that I'd rather eat the money I spent upfront and keep the cards then to sell at a discount, not recoup all $$ and then have nothing to show for the $ I did spend, lol.
     
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  20. Big Dawg

    Big Dawg Well-Known Member

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    same boat here- had FOMO with wave 1, saw the drop in rarity in characters and noticed how much I spent vs played and had to stop. Also in the same boat in terms of not selling what I have to recoup half what I put in
     
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