Question for G1 Collectors

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by CountDrunkula, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. maz25

    maz25 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed - my original comment was in direct response to this "If you find a figure with perfect original labels, we’ll that’s because it’s a KO." and some more of their "opinions" stated as fact.

    That member is in imagineationland.
     
  2. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    Yea, to me the whole point is that it is missleading information.

    Look at the original post. He is giving missleading information. Information that says that collectors don't care about vintage. That the figures value is not effected by reprolabels.

    When in fact, it does have actual traceable monetary value. Because vintage has more monetary value than a reproduction. Otherwise, what would be the point of buying vintage?

    It has absolutely nothing to do with buying habits of individuals. But whether or not vintage has more value than reprolabels. More value being anything more than $.01.
     
  3. johnchow604

    johnchow604 Well-Known Member

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    True. Heck, I'd pay extra ($20 - 30 USD) for the vintage paperwork plastic baggie (not including paperwork) :) 
     
  4. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    And would you, if it was a reproduction, or reissue baggie thrown in?

    To me the big thing that would get me out of my way to buy a reprolabeled transform over one without, would be the upgrade sets. Or a third party upgrade set, or something.

    Heck, I probably wouldn't even buy opened/loose reissues over an original, unless it was something different. Like a repainted Astrotrain in Japanese colors, or those weird colors in the recent reissue. Or blue Omega Supreme.

    Because the whole point of reissues is that I want them nice and fresh. Without the labels put on. So, I can open them up and place them on myself. Which is something I love doing.

    There are some exceptions. Expensive rare reissues of figures. Electronic figures, like Trypticon, Omega Supreme, and Galvatron. Those I'd probably buy the opened/loose versions of just because finding these in working condition can be difficult. Plus, Trypticon already had the stickers applied, so, that is the whole point of me wanting to buy it sealed in the first place... so I'm better off saving 10-20 dollars and buying it used.

    But, usually, I'd prefer to own the original, with the original stickers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  5. JoeHavok

    JoeHavok Well-Known Member

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    No, it’s not misleading. I’ve bought and sold hundreds of figures. And, not one of the collectors cared if the figures had original labels or not. I don’t care. I would rather have perfect labels, rather than crappy original labels. Can you find mint original G1 labels today? Maybe...but your chances are low if the figure is open. If you do, well it’s probably a KO. None of that information I’ve said is misleading. I’m speaking from experience. Sure, some collectors are probably a lot more picky. I realize that. But, those collectors that are buying G1 today, that are buying figures with perfect labels today...if the figures were KO’d, are probably buying G1 knock offs, or originals with reprolabels. Now that’s not to say it can’t be true. But, I would say it’s probably mostly true.

    But, let’s see some pics from collectors of G1 figures that were bought in the last 5 years with perfect labels. And, let’s get some close ups on the labels and the figures, and the figures box. I want to see some mint, perfect, G1 labels. If the figure was bought sealed, and then opened. That doesn’t count. I’ll even allow, opened with unused stickers that were applied.
     
  6. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    You are absolutely misleading if you are telling people that reprolabels and vintage stickers on figures have the exact same value. Absolutely misleading.
     
  7. JoeHavok

    JoeHavok Well-Known Member

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    No, I’m not. Would you pay more for a mint G1 figure with no labels Complete with Box, or reprolabels on it. Or the same figure and accessories, box, etc. that is maybe a C8 in quality with original labels? My point is your misrepresenting how much a Figures value is based on labels. Because the C10 figure is ALWAYS worth more. Sorry.

    And, I want to correct my previous request. Only show me mint G1 figures and original labels from figures that were NOT reissued or KO’d.
     
  8. ljacone

    ljacone Decepticon Pretender

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    I would sticker him up. I am looking at similar questions with my Pretenders. The ones that do have stickers are not done particularly well, and the RL sticker sets for them are quite nice and not bad at all on pricing. If the figure is going to be a display piece for you, I say go for it.
     
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  9. DaveWire

    DaveWire Well-Known Member

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    I don't have Wreck-Gar but I do have Waverider. Okay, that's in no way the same thing. So I bought Waverider off eBay and I didn't even realize he had come sticker free. I just thought he was rather plain and for some reason lacked an Autobot logo. Then I saw pictures of him with stickers and realized just how sorely lacking the guy was.

    F7A4531C-6DBC-4134-BC2C-56E0150F6B02.jpeg

    IMG_0773.jpg

    I recently got around to buying the reprolabel set for Waverider and I am ever so glad I did. He shines now. If your Wreck-Gar had a box and was being displayed in said box, I'd advise against, but being displayed on a shelf, do it. He'll look way better for it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
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  10. lazerface

    lazerface Well-Known Member

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    Nice collection! Where'd you get that shelf? It looks wider than an Ikea Detolf.
     
  11. ServO

    ServO Seeker (I look for stuff) Super Mod TFW2005 Supporter

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    Thanks!
    The case used to be a watch display at a department store. A guy I used to work for used it at his business to display model aircraft. He moved his business to a new location, and didn't want to bring it with, so I asked him if I could have it. I also used it for models before I re-started my G1 collection.
    20180708_132912.jpg
     
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  12. lazerface

    lazerface Well-Known Member

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    Very nice! I've seen a few similar ones on Craigslist, and probably should have bought one. When they do show up, it seems like they are always overpriced or it's just bad timing for me to go pick it up before it sells.
     
  13. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    No, my point is it only needs to be worth a penny more to not be equal. The reason why vintage things are valued is because they are rare. The rarer they are the more valuable they will become. My buying habits, and whether or not I would buy one or the other really doesn't matter. Because we are not talking about subjective value. But objective value. As in something having a traceable value over the other.

    If you are pricing a mint C10 figure with reprolabels at the same price as a C10 figure with C10 stickers, then you are way overpricing that figure.

    As for your request: The Diaclone Appreciation Thread

    Ask these people if they are willing to pay a premium for a minty fresh Diaclone with original stickers over a Diaclone with G1 stickers.

    If you think people are not willing to pay a premium for vintage things, then why are people selling Action Comics number 1 on Ebay for 615 grand? It's not even in mint condition.

    Action Comics #1 (Jun 1938, DC) | eBay

    Here's an Action Comics 23 for $15,000.

    Action Comics #23 CGC 4.5 ONLY Slight Restoration - READ!! 1st Lex Luthor | eBay

    Not even mint.

    Why would they be placing these items on Ebay for these prices if people are not willing to pay them?

    When there are reprints of Action Comics 1 for $11 on ebay.

    Action Comics #1 (Jun 1938, DC) | eBay

    Which is effectively what reprolabels are. They are an unofficial reprint of the labels.

    It is because they are old, because they are rare. Because not many people have them. Because people want them. That is why they have value at all.

    But to answer your original question better:

    Yes, Yes I would. I would totally spend more money for a C8 G1 figure with G1 stickers over one with reprolabels. If there are one of each available, and the vintage is 20 dollars more. I am totally buying the C8. Hell, I'd totally buy the C5. If all we are talking about are the stickers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  14. Liokaiser1989

    Liokaiser1989 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting topic!
     
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  15. JoeHavok

    JoeHavok Well-Known Member

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    You are WAY overstating the importance of original labels.
    Here’s what I look at when valuing a figure for purchasing, and selling.
    1. Quality of the figure
    2. Quality of the box
    3. Presence of original paperwork
    4. Presence and condition of Bubble and card back
    5. Presence of repro card back or bubble
    6. Lastly stickers. If they are mint and unused, then I will pay $10 more. For ALL other labels even original I hold No extra value to them. Why? Because they are probably not on correctly, fading, or peeling. If they are perfect labels. I consider them reprolabels, and I would not pay a penny more for them unless they are mint and unused stickers.

    And, to prove my point. I recently sold some original G1’s I owned. A few had mint and unused ORIGINAL stickers. When I sold them I did mention them. But, I did not even factor the presence of them in to my listing price. I valued those figures on the first five I listed.

    So again. Your over valuing the importance of original labels. Even mint, original labels. Because, it’s just plain silly to assume any original labels you see now are original. You should treat them all as reprolabels, UNLESS they are mint and unapplied. And even then...if the figure has been reissued or KO’d, they are probably not original.

    Now, we are taking about G1. If we are discussing Diaclone with no reprolabels available. Then, yes the quality of the labels will absolutely affect the figure more. But, that is a different story.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  16. maz25

    maz25 Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree, I think there was a misunderstanding b/t yourself and I. Value is in the eye of the collector.
    My preference is for vintage unapplied, but have come to accept a few figures in the collection with reprolabels, sheet intact. I will not apply the labels - personal preference. Also because I may move those figures and would prefer the new owner have the option to apply if they choose, and of course I would be transparent that the labels are repro.
     
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  17. maz25

    maz25 Well-Known Member

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    I wont argue with your personal experience, but I have a few figures, vintage labels applied that are in near perfect condition. Maybe a bit crooked, but not wearing. 2 are UM and Apeface. I purchased UM 7-8 years ago and Apeface about 5 years ago. Both found by parents of the original owner - not knowing what they really had.
    Neither are KOs.

    "those collectors that are buying G1 today, that are buying figures with perfect labels today". - Disagree as I do not fall into this generalization.

    Ebay can be a treasure chest for vintage if you know how to search and what Qs to ask sellers that don't know the hobby.
     
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  18. maz25

    maz25 Well-Known Member

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    It is not difficult to remove vintage labels from a figure and the end result being the figure looks the part of C10. A few transformations, proper removal w/o affecting paint/plastic/chrome. Bang, you have a C10 figure, appearing as labels never applied. I have done this with a few figures I have purchased, as I want those figures to look the part of just being opened, and have added at a premium $ vintage unused label sheets to complete the figure.
    I know in my collection that labels were applied, but I was the one to remove them and add an unused vintage sheet. This makes it acceptable in my personal collection.
    To each their own.
     
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  19. DaveWire

    DaveWire Well-Known Member

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    For anyone interested, I added a picture I had of Waverider prior to reprolabels for comparison.
     
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  20. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    I pointed to the Diaclone figures because if I can figures that are older with that quality of labels, then I can find figures that are newer, right?

    I think you are taking what you value in labels and taking that as a majority. Again, using your own personal subjective reasons for value, instead of looking at it at a much bigger picture. At an objective value. You might not have factored in the unused stickers but I assure you, others do. Because otherwise why would this guy be charging $100 for a Megatron sticker sheet if it didn't have/add value?

    Here is an example of a G1 Thundercracker at $75.00, rating the figure at C9. And here is an example of a G1 Thundercracker with an unused sticker sheet + Instructions for $125. Here is an example on Ebay of Thundercracker complete with the instructions and tec specs. For $120. And here is an example of Thundercracker with all the paper work with an unopen baggie. For a $175. And look, you can buy an unused sticker sheet for $60. Which is almost as much as buying a complete figure.

    I think you are under valuing the importance of the stickers.

    My personal preference is to buy the figure, mostly as complete as possible. Complete enough to have everything attached to robot mode, and vehicle mode. Usually shop between C5 and C8. I usually don't buy any figure above C9. Mostly because I am operating on a low budget. The stickers are most definitely a factor for me. I'd prefer them to be original. I'd prefer original, mislabeled/applied, peeling, and faded, over none or reprolabels.

    As long as the figure is mostly fully functional, as in it has all the parts it needs, like mentioned above. Like G1 Tracks. Don't really need those two extra missiles. So, if I can save a few bucks here and there, I will. In some cases, like the sparking bots and cons, I wouldn't exactly be mad if I bought a dead Frizzle that can still transform for $6. Simply because it looks nice enough.

    I have a G1 Metroplex, which I bought missile 2 missiles, but otherwise was complete. At the time Metroplex was a much more valuable figure. Hovered $100, if I recall correctly. I bought mine for $55. And on the topic of Wreckgar, I probably wouldn't be opposed to buying one that is roughed up, and sticker wear, considering it fits the character.

    So, my personal preference is budgetly minded. Originals over everything else, but I don't exactly need all the parts and all the stickers to be super neat. Personally, I am probably far more likely to assume that any G1 figure at my budget that is super mint and with all the labels mint too, that it's most likely a knockoff. That part I do agree with. But, there are certainly high end stuff. I'm on the low end. So, I am more likely to gravity to a G1 Optimus Prime with a worn chrome grill and stacks, and sticker wear. Like this one. Mainly because I know G1's wear blue. While reissues are chip. Again, don't exactly care that it is incomplete. It is missing that hose. But, I have 1 reissue, and 2 G2 primes already. And, their hoses just sit in a box. Which is exactly where this hose would sit. So, not exactly a priority when I finally get around to buying a G1 Optimus.

    However, having the original labels, and NOT reprolabels, sure are.