Q for people who only buy official products

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by batfan007, Sep 1, 2016.

  1. BenjaminXavier

    BenjaminXavier Well-Known Member

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    Whether or not Hasbro cares or enforces anything doesn't change what IP theft actually is.
     
  2. rlmiddleton

    rlmiddleton Don’t call me a member thank you very much.

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    As for IP theft, it seems to me *in my opinion* that it is, however from a legal perspective I don't know whether there is any any precedent or a ruling has ever been reached in a court of law.
     
  3. unclemarsellus

    unclemarsellus Imaginaut

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    I go to quality and engineering first. A lot of third party items are not engineered or manufactured as good as an official product. I've come to appreciate how well thought out the Hasbro/Takara designs are. There's more attention to detail and an eye towards making the transformation more fun and intuitive.

    I do think the third parties have inspired Has/Tak to deliver on toys we didn't think were going to happen (enormous G1 faithful Devastator, a number of recent MPs, etc.) and it's easy to see the difference when they put their resources behind a toy vs a third party. More reason for me to wait than get suckered into something that I know will ultimately not be as good as an official release.

    I also find the race to create certain segments of bots--like the Dinobots, or Megatron's, Constructicons, and so on, where we saw multiple companies make their versions--to be tiresome. Again, more reason to wait.
     
  4. Rodimus Mike

    Rodimus Mike MP & TF Collector

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    What I am saying Yaujta is can you swear on a stack of bibles your decision to buy MP29 Shockwave had 0 decision to do with 3P making him?. No matter whether you hate 3P Products or not you ended up getting MP29 Shockwave because of it.

    But the truth remains no matter how big or small that some part of Figure Releases from Has/Tak are because of 3P's,I'm just sayin'.
     
  5. JokerFC

    JokerFC Gaelic Hardcase

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    I have bought a few 3P items over the years.....and I ALWAYS end up trading them when official versions become available.

    They are also mostly out of my price range unfortunately.
     
  6. Chrisola

    Chrisola Solid crotch ratchet

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    I picked up MP01 and then MP03 when they were released, and quickly gave up buying Transformers for a couple of years...why you ask?

    Because of the same reasons people dislike 3P so much:

    Price - MP01 was £80, MP03 about the same. Expensive in 2003-2006.
    Quality - MP01 had a loose shoulder joint, so his arm drooped after posing him. He was also lose in the chest when transforming. MP03 had stress marks and the canopy nearly snapped off.
    Transformation - MP03 still one of the most tab-tastic and complicated transformations I've endured.

    I kept MP01 and sold MP03.

    I came back over to looking at Transformers after the TP Sixshot was released and i'd seen him online...but I just couldn't go with TP...they were 'fakes' or 'knock offs' or 'Chinese rubbish'.

    In Jan this year I picked up CW Ultra Magnus (looks ok, hollow light slightly floppy) and leader Jetfire (same) and a few CW figures (all pretty good!) on a whim and have gotten hooked again.

    Then...i took the TP plunge.

    And I'm so glad I did. I still buy official and the price vs quality is nothing like some people in here make it out to be.

    Here are my last 5 official and then TP purchases:

    MP Star Sabre - Looks good, feels ok, not much paint, some sprue marks and loose shoulder joints - £125
    MP Wheeljack - no complaints, best version of the character so i'll never get a different one - £50
    MP Hot Rod - paint chip in chest out of box, light, not the best looking, too small, horrible back kibble - £50
    Hasbro G1 Soundwave re-issue (2nd hand but MISB) - no complaints - £40
    Art Storm Alpha Trion -flimsy, paint chip on face, looks good enough - £65

    Fans Toys Dinobot Sludge \ Stomp - Best transforming toy I own, good transformation, solidly built, ultimate version of the character for me (echoed for other FT dinobots, except Scoria!) - £135
    DX9 Blitzwing \ Gewalt - A couple of sprue marks, good transformation, very solid, not the best design in places - £99
    FansProject Weirdwolf \ Quadruple U - not worth the money, feels a bit cheap vs price and transformation not good, poorly designed in places - £55
    Unique Toys Blur \ Buzzing - solid, good design and transformation, no complaints - £70
    KFC Crash Hog \ Wreck Gar - amazing. slight issue with a small arm piece that the retailer is fixing. Ultimate version of the character for me - £60

    It's all give and take - for every MP Ramjet which is £145 of missambled out of date mold mess, there is a fragile look but don't touch £120 XTB Apollyon.

    For every Legends Springer there is an MMC Spartan.

    Hasbro have had 13 years since beginning the MP line, and we still don't have a Jazz, or a Trailbreaker, or an in scale Megatron, or a Galvatron or countless others that aren't even on the horizon.

    I'm 34, i'll probably be 40 by the time my Fans Toys pre-orders all come in (Skyfire, cough :p  ), and I don't know if i'll still be collecting or even alive...so waiting around will happen to some degree (the TP game doesn't exactly move quickly), but if you keep waiting you'll just spend all your life waiting...and I'm not doing that while there are perfectly good options around.

    So...TP or official, whoever releases the characters i love, at the price I can afford, will get my business. I love these characters and want versions of them on my shelf which capture the spirit of the character for me, and I don't really care about much else..and I'm certainly not disregarding one over the other. I'm not 'settling for an inferior product' as I only buy what appeals to me... it's why i'll never get another MP G1 Prime, MP10 (and MPP10) is Prime in plastic form to me, just like my Toyworld Constructor IS Devastator to me.

    PS I don't care about scale, hence having CHUG \ MP \ CW etc altogether, I care about the characters.
     
  7. treatment

    treatment Well-Known Member

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    Uhmm, I think Yaujta and others like me got MP-29 purely because it is Shockwave. I reckon most of us will even get the original G1 toy if it was newly re-released in the Encore line or re-badged as an MP.

    3Ps has _NOTHING_ whatsoever to do with getting MP-29.

    Not really sure how you managed to convinced yourself that MP-29 only got bought because of 3Ps.

    That's just a classic face-palming lunacy.
     
  8. Goaliebot

    Goaliebot All Makes and Models

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    Most 3P figures, in my opinion as someone who lives and breathes IP all day as a career, do almost certainly violate copyright on the distinctive physical characteristics of characters that belong to HasTak.

    However, unlike Trademarks, there is no burden on a copyright holder to pursue violations. Therefore Hasbro can (and I believe does) make business decisions that not putting pressure on online retailers like BBTS is better for their overall business than what they'd gain from such a crackdown.
     
  9. Ramberk Magnus

    Ramberk Magnus Well-Known Member

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    That's a questionable assertion. Some things clearly seem to be influenced by 3P. Some things maybe not.

    Combiner Wars and United Warriors clearly seem to be influenced by the popularity of 3P combiners. Having said that, we never got a surge of "armor type" figures (trailer plus robot). Titan Devastator likely was influenced by the 100 3p Devs out there. The return of the headmaster gimmick was not influenced by anything 3P was doing. We have lots of 3P Dinobots, but yet that hasn't made a come back with HasTak.

    I think Takara MP Shockwave was unexpected but not a complete surprise. And I personally don't think 3P is really influencing Takara MP decisions. Regardless, no one can definitively say one way or the other without actually mind reading Takara staff.
     
  10. Dachande

    Dachande MULTI-QUOTE- USE IT. Super Mod

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    It had NOTHING to do with the 3P version. NOTHING.
    Sheesh. Why does one have to rely on the other?

    I have been a Shockwave fanboy since I was a child, and an official G1 figure is what I wanted. I had many opportunities to buy QW, but it wasn't good enough.
    If an official figure would have never been made, then I would have no MP representation. Simple as that.
     
  11. treatment

    treatment Well-Known Member

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    I don't buy 3Ps simply because usually:



    • Aesthetics don't really look that good at all.

    • Engineering and quality have been proven crappy by multiple reviews.
    • Just way too expensive to even contemplate.
    • Not that desperate to get a TF-character that has or has not been officially made.

    Afaik, most 3P-makers are creative and can legally skirt around IP. Just that their products just doesn't interest me coz of the listed reasons above.

    edit:

    I have to add that those reasons I listed above applies equally to official HasTak offerings.

    I'm more than happy to NOT buy any of the official TF-figures that meets one or more of those reasons on that list.

    Crap is crap, whether officials or 3Ps...
     
  12. shadowfall1976

    shadowfall1976 The Alpha and the Optimus

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    All my reasons are said by above posters.

    I will add or echo if said...I hate all the excess added for no reason details on many previous figures, the Quakes are huge offenders of this. Plus not even getting the silhouette accurate to the character. It only seems Bad Cube, FT and MMC even get close to what a character should look like, but I'm almost always sure to prefer the Takara design, for one, it's their character, they usually nail how it's supposed to look without changing something or adding tons of excess crap.

    That said, I do own a few, will buy some more, but I prefer officials. One main reason is in all honesty impatience. But, I will never buy a figure just to buy it, I hated Invisible, but loved Sphinx. I do not need more than one unless it's a 3Pfirst, them an official comes...I can be happy with one of each character as an ultimate version, not made of money, nor do I have a whole bedroom or basement to dedicate to toys

    I'm finding it hard to believe you're actually serious here. MP existed long before 3P were making them, and the first ones were KOs of officials maybe with some limited changes. Takara rebooted MP, 3P followed, but not immediately. 3P had little to nothing to do with Laserwave being made...when he was released was long after either of te Quakes anyway. So, what about the officials 3P haven't touched? Prowl, Sideswipe, Tracks? I suppose 3P competition made those come out too..nope, there was no competition for those characters, Takara made them.

    Does any 3P company own the Transformers brand, or character models or liknesses? No...
    Do they use the character likenesses without legal permission? Yes...

    Theft.

    HasTak not doing anything about it that we know of is not permission, if it was there would be no need for licensing the brand out, no company would bother to obtain a legal license
     
  13. Goldimus Prime

    Goldimus Prime Veteran

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    Its been touched on somewhat already, but I'll chime in....

    For me, buying toys is a already a nebulous area when it comes to ethics: the cost of manufacturing an (eventually) disposable, non-biodegradeable, hardgood are numerous: who makes said goods, under what circumstances, how toxic are the materials, were they compensated fairly? Etc.

    Ultimately, neither Hasbro/Takara or 3P are transparent when it comes to these questions.

    My personal ethic is to buy vintage toys primarily, and only indulge in newer toys when I feel reasonably confident I won't be replacing them with an upgraded version any time soon. For this reason, the pace of the MP line suits me, and to date, the core releases have satisfied my desires for lasting representations of the characters I grew up loving.

    When MP-10 was first announced I was flummoxed. MP-1 and MP-5 were supposed to be my final form purchases of Optimus Prime and Megatron. At that time I was entering a new phase of life, I'd moved to a new city, ended a relationship, and decided to sell all but 3 of my toys (MP-8 Grimlock, G1 Bumblebee, and BW Grimlock).
    After the release of (TRU) Soundwave I began to come around to the "Hasui Vision" of a unified scale and focus for the rebooted MP line.

    I admire some of the 3P designs, especially those that fit with this 2nd phase MP asthetic. I don't purchase them because I assume I could be replacing them with official product this half decade. In another 10 years, if I still love toy robots, and Takara hasn't made robot X (say... Reflector), I might consider buying a 3P (then) vintage alternative... But then again, I am happy with the speed with which the mainline releases are dropping now.
     
  14. Hollywood Hoist

    Hollywood Hoist Well-Known Member

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    The reasons I don't purchase 3P

    - IP theft
    - The figures aren't designed for a kid to play with them and I like my son being able to play with my figures without worrying about it breaking.
    -cost, a deluxe sized figure for leader class price, just isn't a good value to me.


    There is a very bizarre idea that pops up from time to time suggesting that Has/Tak refuses to release X character, therefor 3P is needed to fill that void. Unless Has/Tak says they're not releasing any more MP figures, then any character has the possibility of being made eventually. Sure these figures aren't coming out the moment we want them, but unless you want Has/Tak to release every character all at once, we'll have to exercise a little bit of patience.
     
  15. Hollywood Hoist

    Hollywood Hoist Well-Known Member

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    3P had zero affect on me buying MP-29. Has/Tak does not need 3P in any way. Just because a 3P figure came out before the official doesn't mean the official came out as a result of the 3P figure.
     
  16. Turnip

    Turnip Well-Known Member

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    I used to buy a good bit of Fansproject stuff just as the the whole third-party thing started taking off and becoming separate from the low production run "garage-kit" scene. Generally I picked up toys like City Commander, Protector, Defender, Munitioner, and Explorer because they provided toys of characters with functionality (triple-changer, Magnus armor, combiners) that Has-Tak was't at the time.

    However, as time went on and prices / sheer volume of releases increase in addition to Has-Tak themselves hitting a lot of the areas, play-patterns, and charaters not previously thought possible for main lines, I have moved away to just buying official product.

    tldr; Has-Tak wasn't producing everything that I wanted so I bought third-party. Has-Tak starting producing everything I wanted so I stopped buying third-party.
     
  17. ssjkazer

    ssjkazer mr dyslexia

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    To me its the price and some designs get blowen out of the water even with hasbro cheapskateing.

    Most upgrade kits even just stickers cost as much as a figure
     
  18. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    Doesn't mean it didn't, either.

    Hasbro/Takara have made it clear they follow what goes on in the 3P scene, and they see what the fandom spends money on. It's ridiculous to suggest that never affects their thinking about future release plans.
     
  19. Goldimus Prime

    Goldimus Prime Veteran

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    I don't think this is the result of 3P influencing Hasbro/Takara so much as seperate entrepenuers recognizing and acting on obvious wells of nostalgia. The generations brand as it exists caters to ageing fans and (maybe) kids. The unified playpattern (combiners/headmasters) helps sell the Generations brand to kids (novices), while the retro character choices appeal to (usually adult) fans.

    Titan Devastator may have been HasTak compromising between its own in-house brands, catering to the MP scale, while selling at a general retail pricepoint. But both the scale, and those pricepoints/systems of distribution had already been established by the company.

    Ditto.

    3P are redoing a previously crafted HasTak product with virtually every release.

    If HasTak produced a Glacial Lord combiner, or some other release of a completely original 3P effort, I'd take note.
     
  20. Fallout

    Fallout Banned

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    he bought mp-29 because he's a die hard shockwave fan lol