Prime in the Bayformers

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Jalen Frisby, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. Jalen Frisby

    Jalen Frisby BumblebeeLover

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    When i look at Optimus Prime, I see a Warm, kind, father figure to his fellow Autobots, and his human allies. When i think of Prime, i think of say Captain America, Batman, or even Superman. An Icon, one where ya can't change because, there's need to change em unless you do em right like Cap in the MCU. what the Bayformers fail to do was show Prime as this father figure type like in G1, or hell even in prime or any other Transformers stories. No..what we got was a cold blooded murderer who screams I'LL KILL YOU! That is not prime, there is no justification for this at all!

    Optimus Prime shows no remorse for what he does, Prime doesn't kill humans. Even Peter Cullen was unhappy on what the films were doing to Prime, you know it's bad when the guy who voiced Prime from beginning is unhappy on what prime says and does, granted he wasn't like that in the first one(besides killing Bonecrusher but didn't scream bloody murder)

    That's all i gotta say.
     
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  2. TheSoundwave

    TheSoundwave Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm not really sure why Prime became a cold, detached militant. I guess Bay thought that would be cooler. I thought Bumblebee did a good job blending the "cool Prime" with more friendly aspects. Things like him putting his hand on Bumblebee's shoulder goes a long way.
     
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  3. Jalen Frisby

    Jalen Frisby BumblebeeLover

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    Oh yeah! What I love about Bee was Prime, was Prime! He was a father figure to the autobots!
     
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  4. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

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    Is it "cold blooded murder" when it's combat?
     
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  5. Jalen Frisby

    Jalen Frisby BumblebeeLover

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    You should know prime has other ways of combat beside that shit displayed in films.
     
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  6. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

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    Like what?
     
  7. Sir Spookii

    Sir Spookii Well-Known Member

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    Did Cullen give a quote saying he was unhappy with it, or did it come from sources? Jw
     
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  8. Jalen Frisby

    Jalen Frisby BumblebeeLover

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    A remember a long time ago, like when AOE came out, he was uncomfortable on how agressive Prime was in recent films, to the point when Prime said when i find out who's behind this, he's going to die. Made Peter uncomfortable because that's Out of character for Prime to say.
     
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  9. OmegaTaco Supreme

    OmegaTaco Supreme Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb

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    Yup because Prime was a pacifist in G1.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Prime is brutal when he needs to be.
     
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  10. Beastwarsfan95

    Beastwarsfan95 What to type here?

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    Defeating your opponent in combat does not mean you have to annihilate them.
     
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  11. ObakaChanTachi

    ObakaChanTachi Well-Known Member

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    Beastwarsfan95 summed up what I would’ve said quite well. There’s nothing wrong with Prime killing Decepticons. After all that’s just war, you kill or be killed. What bothers me though is how he takes his opponents down.

    I’ve seen a fair share of movies that end with the hero killing their villain. Not taking into account antihero leads such as Se7en and the Godfather films, in nowhere but the Transformers do they decapitate heads (Bonecrusher, Grindor, DOTM Megatron, Lockdown, Infernocus) or scream “you die!” (Shockwave) and “give me your face!” (The Fallen). Those are things you’d expect to see from Megatron, The Fallen, and SG Optimus, not someone informed to be an all-loving benevolent father figure.

    The problem isn’t that Optimus is too brutal. It’s the disconnect between what the film says on the cover and what it’s actual contents are. If Bay was trying to direct Prime as a blood-knight struggling to overcome his brutal ways, I wouldn’t be complaining. But with the movies’s generally poor writing, all I can see is a warped interpretation of what Bay thinks represents the ideal hero.
     
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  12. Beastwarsfan95

    Beastwarsfan95 What to type here?

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    Well said! And it really is a product of this mindset far too many people have that you have to be as bad as your enemy to win. This really could have been fixed if they had Optimus realize he was becoming the very thing he hated... I hate to say it but: Beast Machines handled the “character realizes their extremism put everyone at risk and is bad” plot better. Heck we can’t even put the blame on Optimus alone at this point, AoE had a cast chock-full of either abrasive dicks (Cade), or abnormally violent Autobots.
     
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  13. DarkRed401

    DarkRed401 Well-Known Member

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    I think bay prime's issue is that he just lacks any interesting character, he's generic solider #3 with a "leader" sticker above his shirt pocket
     
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  14. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    Bayformers Optimus Prime is Gary Cooper in HIGH NOON.
     
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  15. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Bayformers Optimus Prime is Leonidas and his 300 Autobot Spartans fighting off the 150,000-300,000 Deceptican Persians.

    Momentum is key to survival, and making sure that you don't hurt the feelings of the enemy you are killing isn't an option.
     
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  16. Honorbound

    Honorbound Bayverse Optimus was in the right.

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    If you want to go home with fewer casualties and your mission doesn't involve taking prisoners, then yes, it does. Given the enemy he's fighting - whom I've said numerous times started Armageddon on their world and kept going, turning it into a six-step procedure and importing it to other worlds, and who are so fanatical that they follow a psycho like Megatron - anything less is going to get people killed. Look at what happened in the Forest Fight when he looked for Sam instead of maintaining situational awareness and making sure that Megatron was dead: Optimus got a deathlock pincer to the back and a stay at the Dead Guy Hotel.

    Given how fickle his human allies are, it's an apt comparison.

    Exactly. Speed and aggression, intelligently applied, are the keys to winning fights - you don't screw around when somebody's trying to kill you, no matter what some armchair quarterbacks might say.

    Bonecrusher: maximum speed and aggression, Bonecrusher's dead in a few minutes, with no further loss of life (beyond the bus Bonecrusher plowed through and the cars he flipped out of the way)
    Demolishor: again, taken down with quickness, halting the loss of life. The only bit I would question is not taking Demolishor prisoner for interrogation (then executing him after they've wrung him dry), but that could have been solved with Ratchet examining the fallen Decepticon and determining that Demolishor doesn't have long to live.

    Chicago Invaders: This is what happens when the Autobots can't get there in time: mass civilian casualties as Megatron's happy band of psychos runs around killing people for shits and giggles. Sentinel and Megatron's deaths are particularly appropriate, as they die immediately after this atrocity, their false and undeserved pleas for mercy thrown back in their faces - how many innocent people do you think begged the Decepticon invaders for mercy? Karma's a bitch, sometimes.

    Lockdown: Sneak attack? No, good tactics. The "Honor to the end" bit was just bad scripting. Regardless of Lockdown's affiliations, he killed a lot of innocent people, and that's before factoring in Hong Kong.

    Attinger: The man was holding a gun on the man who helped Optimus when no one else would. Who cares if he's human? That kind of attitude, oh, we can't have the Transformers kill evil humans, that would be wrong, strikes me as extremely patronizing on the part of other Optimi. Attinger's not some child who doesn't know better - he's a fully grown adult who made his choices and reaped what he sowed.

    Grimlock: Questionable, it could have been written better by having Optimus reach a fever pitch "innocent people are about to die at the hands of a madman, and I don't have time for your bullshit right now."

    TLK: I don't think he killed anybody of his own volition in this movie - sure, Nemesis Prime killed a Guardian Knight or two and almost killed Cade and Bumblebee, but that can be laid at Quintessa's feet (tentacles?)
     
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  17. Jalen Frisby

    Jalen Frisby BumblebeeLover

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    Should have link this from when i started this thread, he says it better

     
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  18. drbeakman

    drbeakman Well-Known Member

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    this is the key to everything, failing to address this is the real clue that the people behind these films were just wanking around
     
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  19. CyberstormSM

    CyberstormSM Turbo-Revvin' Young Punk

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    "[Optimus Prime] would be a more effective military commander if he were more ruthless, but then he wouldn't be Optimus Prime."

    That line perfectly summarizes my biggest problem with Optimus Prime's portrayal in the Michael Bay films. If you turn Optimus Prime into a violent killer, then you've really just stripped the character of his identity. There's nothing recognizably Optimus Prime about him about him aside from the design and voice performance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
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  20. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

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    Yeah, but what did he SAY in those scenes? :) 
    Good posting.
    Also, people have to take into account it's a lot easier to demobilize a human that a Transformer. If you wound a human the right way they can't fight. With Transformers, they can often lose entire limbs and still pose a threat. They pretty much have to be killed to make sure they won't fight back.
    I don't know if it's possible to take one prisoner without constantly having a gun to their head like the Decepticons in DotM. And unlike humans who all have pretty much the same basic bodily abilities, Transformers are all different and could pose threats in ways nobody else knows, like hidden weapons.
    I think Prime was just driven too far after seeing how the humans were mutilating his friends...
     
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