Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by SilverOptimus, Nov 16, 2018.
Not villains, can just be shown as another side of war.
Exactly. Fans don't generate much revenue, general audience does. If I take our local showing of Avengers: Infinity War, about 75% of the people haven't even read a single Marvel comic. They know the characters because of the movies. It's not to say fans aren't important, but the fans are just a leg up for them.
The way business people see a franchise and the way we fans see it are two totally different points of view. I regularly attend Hasbro and Viacom Investor Events. The way they talk, the way they see the franchise is like night and day. They don't care (or know) who Sideswipe is.... if he's not making money, you are not gonna see him. Simple as that.
However, Hasbro admits that TF fans make a sizable chunk of their revenue. That's why we see so much direct intervention. Would that be enough to make a sequel to TLK? We don't know, we just don't know. Only time can tell. At the moment, they are not committed to the finale (you can thank TLK for that). Warner Bros. and Paramount are reshaping their movie franchises. Bumblebee is a key turning point. That's why I do not wish ill for any part of our franchise. Even if I dislike something, I won't complain. Remember, G.I. Joe was a successful franchise before everything went downhill and Hasbro pulled the plug for all things and not just the movie toys. A devastating domino effect may even pull Transformers movie toys out along with Generations and Kids line. There's only a slim chance of that happening but a chance is there no matter how small it is at this point.
I hope that another director take the lead...
This is exactly why I wish the negativity would stop before the movie is being released. For anyone upset over the last few theatrical releases, you’re finally getting what you want. Why all the griping?
And the movies are tied into the entire brand as a whole. You like Generations? Maybe 12 bucks and two hours of your time is worth ensuring a healthy brand. And who knows, you might actually like it!
I’m a GI Joe fan as well. I’ve seen what it’s like when a brand suffers and dies. Transformers has a long way to go to get there but being upset over TLK and not going to at least see Bumblebee is going to put us on the right track.
Why can’t we be positive and support what’s to come? New director, new tone, different style of movie. In 4 weeks, let’s all go to the theater, have a great time and keep Transformers on an upwards trajectory.
I'm already planning on seeing Bumblebee on opening night, even if the last two movies were letdowns*.
Travis Knight and the new team looks to be doing a phenomenal job so far, and a new vision is exactly what the movie franchise needed. In all honesty, if it was another Bay outing I wouldn't spend the money.
*To clarify, because sometimes it seems necessary around here, they were letdowns for me not because of reviewers and "movie snobs", but because the writing was less than cohesive and the characters weren't fun anymore. They felt more like random scenes glued together to form a pseudo-story than actual plot fueled tales of fighting robots.
I enjoy a good sci/fi action romp as much as the next guy, but these two felt empty.
Well it’s nice to have a dream. Tlk tanked hard enough that it almost killed a movie studio and the franchise. I don’t see them touching that with any length of pole. If there is a movie after bumblebee, I don’t see it having much connection to the bayverse if any. They’ll probably keep trying to make bumblebee a badass.
I love this idea! And without some crappy ending where they realize that everything they've done was wrong and go to the Autobots or something like that. Maybe they could do a fake out where Motormaster tells the Stunticons that he's going to respect them more, but then he knocks them all down. Hasbro had better be listening.
I’ll probaby go see it for the g1 introduction and if there is a g1 end scene I’ll stay for it, but the rest of the movie looks forgettable.
I disagree. I think the Prime movie is a given. But TF6 is a given because the Studio Series line is doing great. Just dont expect the huge budget. No Marky Mark. No John Cena. No home of Winston Churchill. Just plenty of awesome CGI graphics produced by Joe Schmoe for half the price but look just as real. Thats what they should have done from the beginning.
You can't be serious.
First reactiins to a small test audience indicated that its not a reboot. All G1 aspects were an afterthought.
The reactions to "Starscream" (Blitzwing) made the aspects happen. Thats why the designs on Cybertron are so different from the lead characters in the movie who look very Bayish.
My personal opinion is that I hope that the next installment has a combination where its not slavish G1 but as far as possible from Bayverse. And that the characters look, act and transform in a newer version on what that character is based on.
There are no "givens" in Hollywood. I also don't think that a single toy line has anything to do with whether a movie studio will pony up for a followup to a universally panned fifth movie. If anything it shows there's still interest in the movies and they'll continue moving forward from the tone the Bumblebee movie sets (if it does well) and not revert back to what is seen by execs as a failure.
Paramount currently cannot afford to pay its stars for the next Star Trek film, neither Hemsworth nor Pine, both Chrises are out because Paramount's in such dire financial straits after a string of underperforming releases. Hopefully that vulnerability gives Hasbro more leverage to create superior films from here on out.
The studio series line is warming the shelves. Can’t get rid of that junk.
But the bumblebee movie is not a reboot, its an intro to the whole saga. Yes I admit its a bit of an experiment, but its still Bayverse directed by a handpicked Michael Bay Jr. I see them jumping out of order with prequels, sequels, and gap fillers simalar to what the star wars saga became. Thats my opinion. I think sometimes they just do movies to do them and dont care about the "numbers". Starship Troopers is the perfect example of a film the movie snobs snubbed but still got several sequels for the fans who were a small group.
Shelfwarming happens due to poor distribution. Here in Miami they sell like hotcakes. And no they arent crap just because you dont like the aesthetic. Cyberverse is the crap.
Exactly this. This has been the truth about the rest of the bayverse and people have been talking about it from the beginning. There is a fuckton of costs that are not included in the budgets and projections released to the public. One would have hopped that this fandom would have learned this, after hasbro stated a few months ago that they actually made pennies out of the supposed billions.
In your microcosm, maybe they are selling great. It isn't the case for everyone though, so don't assume that just because in Miami they sell that they aren't peg warming everywhere else.
Locally, they don't sell well at all unless they're discounted or there's a sale. Brawl, Ironhide, Megatron, Grimlock, Blackout, Lockdown, Jazz and Shadow Raider were VERY easy to find around here for weeks. Only when sales hit and Walmart lowered the prices of the Deluxes to $16 did any of them move.
That's in my region, so it isn't indicative of the entire US and I would never claim it is. It's just how I see it at retail locally.
As for opinions of them being crap, of all the ones I've bought only TWO were kept (VW BB, Lockdown) while the rest were returned/sold due to either shoddy quality (Camaro Bumblebee, Grimlock, Megatron, the first Dread) or total lack of interest/enthusiasm (Starscream, Optimus). Saying something is crap isn't always about whether someone likes the aesthetics, because I do like the movie looks, but in my experience the SS line is not worth the investment. Having all these characters in perfectly acceptable molds from the previous movie lines helps me to not gloss over these figures' shortcomings (pun intended) and want to collect what I feel are sub-par offerings.
After Forces of Destiny bombed, Hasbro's response was to do the same exact line except with Marvel.
We're not really seeing much of the line here. That first wave with Berserker sat forever. I picked up Jazz because the 2007 release had so many issues and it is ridiculously tiny. Studio Series sits alongside leftover AOE and TLK product and the positively chintzy Bumblebee toys to create a blurry sea of do not want. Can you imagine if Bayformer MPs were on shelves too?
It's exactly as you say: it's a problem of PLOT and STORY, not "movie snobs" or bastard fandoms.
I'm personally sickened at anyone who would turn venomous against his own brother over these stupid movies. DON'T BLAME FANS. They want a better story, more G1, whatever. But when TLK and AoE fail badly, it's not because everyone is a "snob". Or because the fans hate it. The real reason is because Bay keeps making the same damn movie OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER. And this isn't something a non-fan figured out - it's something I read on TFW2005! As written by a fan! I wouldn't have noticed how bad it was (because as a non-fan, I don't pay as close attention to the details), but once pointed out... it's there. The 5 movies are virtually identical in "plot".
And I'd like to add that they're cut like absolute $H*T. The action scenes look like the camera operator had a seizure. And as the guys at South Park can tell you: if your movie is 3+ hours long, you need to learn how to edit!
Except that Hasbro BLOWS at creating good media content! I mean, I'd love to be corrected: point out their last successful cartoon! They're not exactly good at it.
Worse yet? They spent how much on that Writer's Room project? And it made how much difference to the incomprehensible plot of TLK?
I don't know. There are reasons. In business, you often do commit a lot of time/money to a project, even if the numbers don't agree with your move. You invest the time/resources and wait patiently for a profit. That profit may take YEARS to arrive. It's quite common.
So Hasbro could be hemorrhaging badly with the 1-steps and Cyberverse and movie toys. Don't get me wrong: they will make SOME money... but the question is, "Are they recouping their costs and making a tidy profit?" Or, "Are these the best products to promote/sell, as compared to their other products?"
And the answer is, "No. They're not." Because in every recent Investor Call by Hasbro, they have admitted to declining sales in the Boys category, as led by TFs, Marvel, SW, etc. Broadly speaking, we can agree that the TF brand is in decline (as compared to 2007 or 2009) - in terms of sales numbers. If Hasbro could reveal some sales numbers, we would know. But it's a blobby mess, and there's no telling how much the SS line is helping (or hurting) matters.
However, I also notice the SS line sitting on shelves for a longer time than other lines... and I notice they get shipped more often (not necessarily replenishing shelves). A Generations peg can be empty for weeks/months; the SS line gets stocked. And the Generations pegs stay empty while the SS toys stay unsold (generally). Without a big movie, I'm not sure how stocking more movie toys will help Hasbro out. There are just more G1 fans than movie fans. If you want to talk success, you guys should remember that we just exited a G1 trilogy and entered a new G1 trilogy! No other TF line can boast getting THREE entire toy lines devoted to it from go.
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