All six live action movies are true to the roots of the franchise. The Bay movies are closer in their timeline and core stories to the original cartoons than any other fiction since G1.

LoL. You can disagree with me and like different things from me, but please don't accuse me of forgetting that Hasbro is a toy company when I specifically mentioned toys in my last post, and you yourself appeared to act as if the movies themselves need to have certain names for trademark reasons.

 

Oh I get that, but I think quite a few Transformers (a lot of them, actually) were killed off prematurely without realising their true potential as characters. And I want them to get another chance.

They did start to focus more on personality in the later movies, which was a plus, except when they were just name slapping or creating caricatures.

There is indeed a lot to Transformers, But the execution in the Bayverse movies was terrible.

I can't argue with an open mind. But there were still those pissed off people, and by the last Bayverse movie, even more pissed off people.

Gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't really know anyone who really liked the Bayverse 'weirdness' or found it 'pleasant'. They just thought it was weird. Besides, when you throw in the incoherent storylines and continuity, I'd prefer a little less 'insanity'.

I guess that's one of the reason I liked Bumblebee.

I probably wouldn't mind seeing a clip showing that. But just a clip.

For me, the Bayverse represents wasted potential, a creation of individuals who neither truly cared about or truly understood Transformers. Still, after each Transformers movie, I kept trying to figure out what they could do to improve the next one, and hoping they would.

And then Bumblebee came out, which was an example of what I'd wanted all along. I have to ask myself, why accept something that I never really wanted in the first place, when there is now something that is?

That's why at the end of the day, I have to stand by my opinion that Bumblebee should be the first movie in a new live action Transformers universe.

 

Sadly, That could never happen because we live in a dark world where studios are no longer appreciated for the good movies they do put out because mcu fanboys and disneygoers would rather they just fail than give them a chance.

Sony's a good example because ever since the Jumanjii reboot, they've been trying to pick themselves back up and earn their audiences approval again, guess who's giving them trouble...

 

You know, it's fair enough if you have different preferences, and I'm also glad we can come to some agreements.

But you also have to understand my preferences within the source material itself. I am not too fond of, say, the Season 1/Season 2 episodes that featured the original Autobots and Decepticons meeting in some canyon and battling out, only for Megatron to call, "Retreat." To me, those episodes are too mundane and repetitive. I enjoy things more along the lines of, say, Webworld, Madman's Paradise, or A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court. I prefer things more bizarre, more science fiction, more dystopian, because that's when I find Transformers to be most enjoyable. When Galvatron is completely insane and beating up anyone on a whim, that is Transformers perfection. I don't like Transformers because it was ever anything "normal." I got into it because it was weird and over-the-top. It stimulated the imagination.

I also don't think the Bay films are perfect...but most of them are also better than given credit for what they're trying to be IMHO, a couple of them considerably better than given credit. Even The Last Knight, which I'd pick as the weakest of the five, still has plenty of redeeming qualities, and the last time I watched it, I couldn't help but be enamored of its over-the-top insanity. Should it have been more coherent? Absolutely. I think with several less human and robot characters and a few less threads going on, and if it acted more as a sequel and less like a cinematic universe springboard, I think it would have been better and more enjoyable. I don't know why they made some of the decisions they made...I would have never brought in Unicron in such a manner...but it is what it is.

So rather than either Bumblebee or The Last Knight, I'd love something with the best aspects of both. Something less mundane, more sci fi, and more insane than Bumblebee, but something with fewer characters and threads than The Last Knight, with many aspects in between the two films.

 

I don't recall talking about making everyone happy in pass discussions, but I might must be forgetting...
And "being a little extra" what, exactly?
I could say the same to anyone here. "We get it, you love G1" Or "We get it, you love Bumblebee." Those opinions get expressed around here a lot more than mine, yet your statement makes it seem like I'm posting more than anyone else here.

I disagree with your assessment that one has to like every single aspect of something to be a fan. I'd say being a fan means enjoying watching the movies, even if they're not perfect.

 

I'm trash enough to wish for at least one more movie in bayverse, but I don't want it enough to risk the entire franchise. They need to stick with their guns and keep going with this rebootish-reboot-that-isn't-but-also-totally-is.

 

I think James Cameron is just naturally that intense and cranky. Besides, his vice is rooting out of school, not coke.

At least, I don’t think he’s ever done coke.

 

To be honest, the source material I was most familiar with as a child were the Transformers UK comics, rather than the cartoon, so I came to expect a certain standard when it came to the quality of writing for Transformers. And when we had well-written TV series like Beast Wars and Animated, I found it incomprehensible that the live action movies which cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make were so inferior in comparison. Of course, now we know why.

I suppose I liked Transformers because the characters came across as people with actual personalities, and overall they had a positive message (one of my sons even accused me of actually having Optimus Prime as my role model - I suppose there's some truth to that.). I guess after Bayverse, I'm kind of done with the 'dystopian', 'bizarre' stuff. (unless it happens to be in a Marvel movie. They're a lot more watchable (imo)) I want something that's more hopeful, so to speak. For now - at least. (And it makes a change from some of the stuff I have to deal with in real life).

The way I see it, Bumblebee, and it's immediate successors should be be just small fun movies that focus on the Cybertronians and their adventures on Earth. Don't go intergalactic until the audience have gotten to really know (and care) about the characters. Later, we can go into epic, more sci-fi, end-of-the-world type territory (I want to see a living live-action Cybertron, though).

I had actually hoped to see Bayverse Galvatron going all mental onscreen (like he did in the old comics). I also wanted a time travelling Galvatron vs Megatron battle as well, with one seeing his past self as a failure, and in return being seen as a nutcase by his younger self (with Starscream in complete agreement)).

Well, there's still a chance for something like that in the Knightverse. But no rush.

 

You're not trash. You just wanted them to finish the story. So did I.

Then Bumblebee came out, and now I'd prefer not to risk the possibilities it now offers - a fresh start, a new storytelling universe and and a chance to do everything right this time.

Perhaps, someday we could have a crossover showing what happened after the Last Knight (and let's face it, it wasn't looking good). But only after the Knightverse is properly established. I don't think a lot of people are ready to return to the Bayverse any time soon. I know I'm not.

 

You know, I think it's fine to have different preferences in Transformers, but that's what we're all stating here: preferences. And I think the diversity of preferences in a Transformers fandom is not a bad thing, but a good thing.

Keep in mind, even if I like a movie a tonne, I always want things to improve in the future, whether that's the writing, the acting, the action, or whatever. So even though I enjoyed most of the Bay movies a lot, I still always wanted improvements, which I felt I did get in many, although certainly not all, instances.

Although this last part I quoted from your post reminded how I would have done The Last Knight. I would have focused more on the Creators/Galvatron/Nemesis Prime story than Cybertron coming to Earth and Unicron. I would have had the Creators use the captured Knights as controlled zombies to infiltrate their respective factions and destroy them from within. Prime would become Nemesis that way after encountering the Creators and be sent back to Earth to infiltrate the Earth-bound Autobots. And since Lockdown was capturing living Knights, but Megatron was thought dead, the Creators, thinking Megatron was dead and unaware of Galvatron's existence, built a new "Nemesis Megatron" to infiltrate and lead the Decepticons to their destruction. Most Decepticons think "Nemesis Megs" is the real deal and not the cubeforming Galvatron. The two battle it out, with Galvatron destroying the imposter, and then Galvatron goes on to beat the crap out of the Decepticons who didn't believe him in true Season 3 fashion. Then he goes on to fight Nemesis Prime and actually help the Autobots.

 

I would have made the 'Creators' an absolute bunch of liars deceiving the Cybertronians about their true origins. That might have helped explain certain continuity discrepancies.

 

Doesnt explain the Transformium laser unfortunately.

 

Gotta start somewhere.  I'd rather have a Knightverse, anyway. I'd prefer to start decorating a new house to my own taste to begin with, than try the same thing with a pile of rubble.

 

Personally, I think there's an even easier explanation: the Autobots didn't remember being built because they weren't sentient, sapient beings yet in their earliest stages of existence! Since the Transformers were built to be robot slaves by the Creators, and the Allspark is what gave them life, and they didn't know where the Allspark came from. And since they were given life by the Allspark, they wouldn't have remembered anything before they were given life, and they consequently thought they were "born" of the Allspark, when they really built by a an alien race.

Would the Allspark mutations remember their earlier existence as phones or appliances? No! If Galvatron's troops were theoretically given life by the Allspark, would they remember their existence as mindless KSI prototypes? No! From what we see and what the characters say, all of the Transformers....Autobots, Decepticons, Allspark Mutations on Earth, and others....started their existence not as living beings, but as lifeless machines programmed to do as they were told, regardless of whether their masters were alien beings far behind human technological achievement, or humans playing with their cell phones or building their own robots.

So I never had any issues with the Creator stuff introduced later on in the films. On the contrary, I prefer it to Transformers merely being created from the Allspark, and it actually is based on the original cartoon. The cartoon introduced the Vector Sigma origins before the Quintesson origins. And just like in the cartoon, the Transformers did not realize they were originally robotic slaves until later on in the series. Rodimus didn't know the Quintessons were the Transformers' Creators until he ventures into the Matrix, and Optimus Prime is unaware of being created until Lockdown captures him. So not only does it not negate the earlier films I feel, I think it actually complements them, I also think it's honoring the original cartoon as well.

I just wish The Last Knight had focused more on that as opposed to trying to springboard a cinematic universe that didn't come to fruition.

 

I never really liked the Quintesson/Creator type origin, even if it was more faithful to the G1 cartoon. I've always preferred the 'descendants of Primus' type origin for the Transformers (which the comics went for). It made the beginnings of the Cybertronians more 'cosmic' and 'mystical' for me, and therefore a lot 'cooler', imo.

I basically went with the idea that Primus created the Cybertronians, and at some point they were enslaved by the Quintessons (maybe after the defeat of Unicron, the Transformers had settled down to a peaceful existence - and then the Quints turned up), who, after millennia, and generations of slavery eventually convinced their slaves that they were the original creators (maybe they'd have taken credit for the Allspark and Matrix as well).

And yet legends of Primus and and Unicron still persisted amongst the Cybertronians, and some of them probably still remembered the truth, though these 'myths' were still dismissed by many. That's the approach to the origins of the Transformers I'd go for.

Hm, seem to be going a bit OT here.

 

But is it ethical to give known failures EVEN MORE creative control so they can fail more at the expense of other people involved who genuinely care about Transformers and whose livelihoods will be affected?

 

And you know what? That's perfectly fine. It's okay to prefer different origins for the Transformers. You have stated your preferences rationally and respectfully, so kudos!

 

After Bee we all looked forward, ready to buy the next time tickets....now, thanks to Lorenzo, who knows.

If they continue the Bayverse I will personally make sure friends and family stay away, it won't take much...

 

Me, I want them to stay as far away from the Transformers movies as possible. (I keep repeating myself.........)

 

Reactions to the news.

(of course they throw a cm jab. And yes they are called out in the comments over it)