Optimus Prime in AOE

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Jalen Frisby, May 9, 2020.

  1. Jalen Frisby

    Jalen Frisby BumblebeeLover

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    What would you guys do to make Optimus Prime in AOE, betrayal from the humans feel more natural, have his anger be more justified, and more real to the point, you be on the edge of your seat, seeing Prime, who believes good of all humans, turn on them. then how they did in Prime. Personally, I like for them to have Prime added with a bit of Caesar from the planet of the apes reboot. and not have him kill humans. or the urge not too, but realizes he's gone too far, and needs to redeem himself. What do you guys think??
     
  2. Rumblestorm

    Rumblestorm Well-Known Member

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    If you're asking us what we would change for it to feel more justified, I think it was all justified as it is.

    That said, if you want to take it a step further, include Sam dying in the whole Mexico City ambush. Sam was killed by Cemetary Wind and thats what made Optimus crack. If TLK is gonna fuck over Sam the way it hinted at then we may as well see what happened to him.
     
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  3. Jalen Frisby

    Jalen Frisby BumblebeeLover

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    Sorry if i was being confused, I'm a bit tired. Late where I'm at lol. But ya know, i remember watching a youtube video, where Optimus awaken, someone said, that if you hear Optimus it sounds like he's saying: Sam, run..!
     
  4. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    I definitely would like to see an Optimus with shades of Caesar from the Planet of the Apes reboot series.

    The problem is that the Bay movies in general are such damaged goods, even if you improved one element it wouldn't fix how broken the entire thing is. The only sane solution is to scrap it all and start fresh. It's difficult to talk about improving one scene or one element because it then just gets me thinking about everything else that's wrong, until I forget about what the original topic was about. :lolol 
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
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  5. ObakaChanTachi

    ObakaChanTachi why do we have to fight all the time?

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    I would include a short flashback to Mexico City. Show Optimus meeting with human representatives of Cemetery Wind expecting a simple talk, only to be ambushed with guns and Lockdown.

    Show, don't tell
    . We can't just tell the audience Prime's mad at humans because of this and that. Show them the event that caused Prime to snap and how it affects him.

    I would have it be the introduction to the film and get rid of the dinosaurs. They could wait another day.
     
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  6. Rumblestorm

    Rumblestorm Well-Known Member

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    I think Ratchet's murder was enough to convey what you're looking for.
     
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  7. Terrellatron

    Terrellatron REPAIR REPAIR REPAIR

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    Um so when Optimus transforms and I have asked multiple people it sounds like he is saying Sam Run
     
  8. Arkimus Prime

    Arkimus Prime Hasta La Vista, Bay Bee

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    I do say those random guttural sounds he starts to make at around the :19 mark kinda maybe sorta sound like "SrrhaAHgAm RguhUUAn." I can hear it. Ish.
     
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  9. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dreklord of Ogremarr Veteran

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    Prime in AoE was fine as is, so nothing.

    If anything, I'd say AoE is the movie that needs the least changing in terms of Optimus Prime and the Transformers side of things. The Transformers aspect of that movie was Shrektastic: the role the Transformers play in the story, voice acting, designs, etc.
     
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  10. GeoSociety

    GeoSociety Well-Known Member

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    I think if they started the movie with us actually seeing the Mexico city battle instead of another "blah blah from the past" trope opening, Prime's emotions would be believable to us better. Like possibly seeing Sam die and several other autobots die.



    But regardless, I think AoE is Peter Cullen's best emotional performance of Optimus.
     
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  11. electronic456

    electronic456 Well-Known Member

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    I really hope we can get another performance of a broken-down Optimus from Peter Cullen or another actor in the near future.
     
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  12. JohnStartop

    JohnStartop There can only be one.

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    If you read the synopsis of AoE, nothing about Optimus is wrong from a character standpoint. It's just a poorly paced film that should've devoted more focus to his arc. There's a lot of subplots that could've easily been simplified, but then I suppose they just needed an excuse to inject it full of action.
    I don't take the dialogue too seriously. You can give a speech about ideals and break your vows a minute later. I'm used to their low standars in writing.
    I appreciate the thought you put into this. Certainly, more than they or I ever did. It is pretty dumb, but there's no saving it if they just keep rushing them out to make money and get from Point A to point B with the story. The quickest fix is switching out the director to add some self-awareness to how dumb it is.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  13. Rumblestorm

    Rumblestorm Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, the Mexico City ambush and what led to it could easily be its own 1.5 hour film.
     
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  14. Hoptimus

    Hoptimus How I roll.

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    Everybody do yourself a favor and watch this video!
     
  15. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP #VernoWasRight

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    I'd make the movie less about Optimus having to 'forgive' humanity and have it be about him realizing what a massive, disgusting hypocrite he is.

    He cries about being hunted and slaughtered, yet spent years doing exactly that to the Decepticons. He made himself judge, jury and executioner, beholden to no laws or due process, and continually operated under his own devices on Earth without consent from its people. He was the one who brought Sentinel to Earth, causing the whole Chicago disaster just because he wanted to. He constantly acts without consideration for or with permission from the United States Government, or any Government, because of his own impulses and feelings, then he has the ball-bearings to claim humanity "betrayed" him?

    Optimus taught humanity how to betray the Autobots. He not only gave them the literal capabilities to combat Transformers, but he sowed the intolerance and lack of due process into them. He showed humans that Transformers are murderous warriors on both sides who possess no mercy, no empathy, and no restraint, and who kill not as a last option, but as the only option. Are they going to attempt diplomacy with the being who executes helpless enemies and swears bloody revenge on any who cross him? The same individual who brings alien threats onto their soil without so much as a screening process?

    I'd like a movie where Optimus realizes what an actual freaking headcase he's become. A violent, bitter, self-righteous tool who creates all of his own problems, and realizing that the life of hatred and killing he's so willingly lead up until now has come back to bite him. Have the movie be about him realizing what he's done wrong, and desperately trying to atone for it and appeal to a humanity that sees him as nothing more than a mindless killing machine. Optimus starts the movie much like he did, but around about the point Lucas dies he realizes that humanity is not to be trusted. Cade or whoever than rebukes him with the cold reality that Optimus has given them no reason to trust him, and that from the vast majority of people's perspective Autobots only kill and bring destruction to their world. Optimus slowly comes to grip with reality, remembering what he has done, and has an actual crisis as he's left this broken shell of a man who's abandoned his ideals for total victory, and seeing what the price of leading those like-minded.

    See, you can't just change Optimus and not the others around him. I say that we also change the Autobots. Instead of Hound, Drift and Crosshairs being just as deplorable and violent as Prime, have them be Autobots who are near-pacifists, only surviving because they chose to stay hidden rather than ever fall under Prime's leadership, maybe even be dissidents. Then Optimus not only must regain humanity's trust, but his own people's trust as well. Throw in Lockdown too, but instead of being this weird inconsistent tool who's worldly and reserved one moment and a spitting jackoff the next, have him be constantly goading Optimus and mocking his hypocrisy, challenging him and his change of heart. Actually make a God-damned movie and not just a bunch of CGI nonsense with stupid voices blowing things up. I'm not asking for MacBeth just basic shit like character arcs and actual meaning of things.

    Except, you know, him swearing bloody vengeance on a human. "I swore to never harm humans" but yeah go ahead and break that oath because you're mad.

    Because as we all know, it's okay to break oaths and compromise on ideals if you just really really want to.
     
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  16. TheSoundwave

    TheSoundwave The Fox

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    I get what they were going for. Optimus Prime had to kill Attenger to save Cade. I get it, and I don't really think there was anything wrong with him doing that. My problem isn't necessarily with Optimus' actions, but the position he was put in by the filmmakers. I'm not really sure the Optimus Prime character is the proper place to explore moral questions like that. It would be like Superman destroying one planet to save ten other planets. It's an interesting dilemma, but probably not one that should be tackled with the Superman character. I kind of wish they just had Optimus stick to his no killing humans rule. They could have written the story so he finds some other way to save Cade. They could have had Optimus put his hand in front Attenger's bullet or something. I feel like something like that would have been more in-character.
     
  17. John TheDestroyer

    John TheDestroyer Yoinkus

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    I agree with the rest of your comment, but not this part here. Yes Optimus did break his oath but the reason was a little bit more than "mad" or "really want to." He swore not to harm a human, but then a human decided to ambush, murder, and melt down all of his colleagues and friends just because it pays well. Imagine yourself in those shoes. That kinda thing is almost guaranteed to drive even the strongest will over the edge
     
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  18. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP #VernoWasRight

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    Except I’m not Optimus Prime. I would never swear to something I can’t trust myself to uphold.

    Ideals are not ideals because they’re easy to live by and convenient. If you swear to something, make it your lifestyle and tenets of your character, you don’t compromise on them because of your emotions. If you’re that self-righteous as to declare something so grand, you best fucking abide by that, or it makes you look like a hypocrite and a weakling. He wasn’t swearing to kill the man responsible to put a stop to him, or because he thought it was the only way, he did it because he wanted selfish, spiteful revenge.

    If this wasn’t the guy who’s so far up on his high horse he has to mail his speeches to the peons beneath him, I’d agree, but this is Mr. “Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, but I’ll still double-tap this old man.”

    “Any and all evildoers deserve to die.” That’s Optimus’ philosophy in these movies. If you have committed a villainous act, you are not only deserving of death, but he will carry out that punishment himself, and it must be swift and brutal. He really does care about freedom I guess, ‘cuz I’ve never seen him take any fucking prisoners.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
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  19. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP #VernoWasRight

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    If the dialogue is not to be taken seriously then what is it there for?

    Also, let’s ignore the dialogue then and focus purely on the acts: Optimus always, without fail, uses deadly force as the only option. He does not defeat his enemies, he destroys them. Capture or disabling them is never even an option to the point where we as the audience just sort of accept it as an impossibility, despite the fact that holding cells for Transformers exist in TLK and we can see Transformers rendered incapable of fighting without being killed. Yet Optimus only ever goes for the kill, even if the enemy is completely helpless and no longer a threat.

    Yet he cries and throws a tantrum when the exact same thing is done to them. The Autobots get hunted just like the Decepticons were, with the same amount of mercy. One could argue “yeah well but the Decepticons were bad guys!” And what about the Autobots? They were allies, yes, but look at them. Virtually every Autobot exists purely to fight and kill. They show no interests, no personality, beyond fighting and killing. War is all they’re good for, they serve no other purpose or have any other ambition in life but to fight and kill, gleefully and with deadly efficiency. Is it any wonder humanity turned on these violent, unpredictable killing machines that talk more about killing than they mention each other by name.

    Maybe if Optimus and his Autobots actually, like, displayed personality outside of fighting I’d believe you on the dialogue thing, but ignoring the dialogue only makes things worse, not better.
     
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  20. peteynorth

    peteynorth TFW2005 Supporter

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    "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, except for you ancient heroes of Cybertron who have been imprisoned for centuries and only now been freed. No, you will be conscripted into the service for the protection of these three humans I've known for a dozen hours and whom I now love like family, or I will fucking kill you!!!"

    Yeah, spot on Optimus Fucking Prime.
     
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