Opinion Piece - Transformers died after ROBOTS IN DISGUISE

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Kickback, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    Transformers dies and revives many times for me.

    It died for me in mid 2009 and only now is coming back as I look at the new info about new show and toys, it also died in 2007 until Animated started and died in 1999 when BM started, only to come back nearly 8 years later.
     
  2. Eric

    Eric Dreadnought of Floof

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    First and foremost, I've been collecting for about eight years now, and I've gained some experience from being a part of the fandom in general. So I think it’d be best that I share my opinion on this topic:

    Let's go back to 1993. I was only four when me and my brother watched reruns of the original cartoon (or maybe it was the Generation 2 version, not sure). Seeing giant robots turn into cars, trucks, jets, guns, and anything else really got our attention, and we were hooked. The toys were what got us into being fans. I can't remember much, but I think we owned a G2 Megatron, along with some G1 Micromasters (that I'm assuming were in a bargain bin or something, but they were the real deal, not KOs) and the G2 Minibots. The commercials featuring the Transformers in CGI will always be etched into my mind, as I saw Optimus Prime beating the crap out of Ramjet (who looked like something out of an 80's neon bar). We didn't mind how wacky the colors were for the toys, we just liked the Transformers for who they were: giant alien robots that can turn into anything. But Generation 2 wasn't the line that got us into Transformers completely...

    1996: A year my bro and I would never forget. For it was the year of Beast Wars. We got a line that was so mind-blowing and amazing, it's the only thing Transformers-related that my brother still likes. No longer were there Autobots or Decepticons, but rather their successors, Maximals and Predacons; Transformers that can turn into real animals (not robotic-looking ones). If the toys weren't good enough, then the show would get you hooked. Characters that we cared about, a great story, and writing that, IMO, would give Shakespeare a run for his money (okay, maybe it wasn't THAT good of writing, but pretty good effort by Larry DiTillo and Bob Forward, nonetheless). Even the humor was well-written, as I still crack up at the one episode where Rhinox let out a huge, earth-shattering fart. Me and my bro would watch every episode of the first season until the last episode of the first season, where Optimus Primal sacrificed himself to defeat the planet destroyer moon cannon thingy (can't remember what it was called). At that point, my bro lost interest, assuming that that was the end of the show, and moved on. But I knew somehow that the writers wouldn't stop there, so I kept watching, and wouldn't you know it, there were two more seasons, and new toys to go along with them. But when the show ended in 1999, I was a bit sad, but I did like the way they handled ending it, so the feeling was mutual. Beast Wars had come and gone, I outgrew action figures in general, and went on to bigger and better things (like playing Nintendo 64 and PlayStation games). Adios, Beast Wars. I'll never forget you. Enjoy your stay in my own little nostalgia heaven.

    For the next year, I never really bothered with Beast Machines (nor did I even know about it until a few years after it ended), and when 2001 came, I was an avid gamer. I was flipping through channels one day when I saw a commercial promoting the RID toys. This led me to some confusion as to what RID was about. Autobots battling Predacons? Transformers being an anime? What the heck is going on? Needless to say, I let my curiosity get the better of me and I decided to watch an episode on Fox Kids on a Saturday morning. What I saw was a half-hour of bad dialogue, voice acting that reminded me way too much of Digimon, and characters that were just all-around stupid (Sky-Byte being a prime example, IMO). I decided, “screw this,” and went back to playing Pokémon Stadium 2.

    Let’s skip ahead to 2002. It was a hot day in July, and I went to Target with my mom for something (I’m assuming I had to get new shoes, don’t really remember what I was there for). I figured I might as well stroll down the toy aisles for old time’s sake, and see what toys kids these days were playing with. After seeing the Power Rangers Wild Force toys (and snickering to myself at how ridiculous they looked), I saw something I thought I would never see again in a million years: Transformers. There were a few RID toys here and there, but what got my attention was the brand new line they had out, Transformers Armada. They were drastically different from the Transformers I played with when I was little. I then glanced at the smaller Transformers that, at that moment, instantly reminded me of the Micromasters me and my bro played with almost a decade ago. These “Mini-Cons” caught my eye. I grabbed one of the three-packs and bought it, and the nostalgia came rushing into me after so long. I haven’t had fun with these toys since the days of Beast Wars, and after a few more Mini-Cons, and some deluxe-class Transformers, I was back into playing with them. Granted, not everyone I knew took my newfound addiction to toys well, but I simply shrugged and ignored them. And then the TV show came around. After watching the first 13 or so episodes, I took back everything bad I said about RID; Armada was a lot worse. The animation was craptacular at least 95% of the time, the characters were stock, and the story for a good chunk of the show was basically Pokémon, only with human-sized robots whose only method of oral communication was through beeps instead of little critters that spoke their name. At that point, I knew something felt wrong; these aren’t the Transformers that I remember. What happened? I can understand Hasbro wanting to create a new continuity for Transformers, and I’d be fine with it if the show wasn’t set up all stupid. And the human sidekicks…oh dear lord; the Nostalgia Critic would have a field day with these characters. Carlos is a stereotype, Alexis is annoying, Rad is just stupid, Fred is a fat annoying blob voiced by the same guy who voiced Eddy from Ed, Edd, ‘n’ Eddy, and Billy…I just don’t trust someone whose face reminds me of a ******ed waffle (don’t ask why). The greatest irony to Armada to me is that although I now hate it so much, I have to give it a grudging respect for it, as it was the line that brought me back into Transformers.

    So when Armada ended and Energon began, I had a renewed sense of optimism. Everyone makes mistakes at times; maybe Armada was just a rare misstep by Hasbro, and I’m sure that its sequel will make up for it, right? Err…right? Nope. In some ways, Energon was worse than Armada. The Autobot toys that could Powerlink with each other were downright laughable. It looked like one robot was wearing another robot as a pair of pants. I guess the whole bit about Jetfire becoming a pair of super pants for Optimus Prime back in Armada must have made the guys over at Hasbro grin a lot. Some of the Decepticon toys were less than stellar, but there were others that turned out alright. Sure, we got a Shockwave homage out of it, but Scorponok looked like he belonged in a circus with those colors. The only Decepticon toy I really enjoyed was Megatron himself, and now I regret giving away his big bad leader-class version to charity. The five-robot combiners were actually fun, but the colors for the Destruction Team and Construction Team were a little off. As far as the show was for me, no amount of logic could make this show enjoyable. In a strange, cosmic sort of way, it made Beast Machines watchable. Even when watching the Japanese version, Transformers Superlink, it doesn’t make any sense at all. So many questions can be asked about this show, and we will never get answers for it, other than “the writers didn’t know what the hell was going on, either.”

    It is the year 2005. After Energon’s abysmal performance, I was starting to have second thoughts about being a Transformers fan. And when we heard news a year earlier about the Armadaverse having another sequel, I got worried. But you know what they say, “three’s a charm.” And “they” couldn’t be any more right. Transformers Cybertron was a godsend compared to its successors. It’s as if Hasbro got two strikes, but then got a homerun. The toys were all-around great, especially the Scout-class figures. Plenty of homages and throwbacks to previous Transformers series, and the Cyber Key gimmick was actually not half-bad. The cartoon was a bit more polished, but the voice-acting…eh, I got sick of it after a few episodes, so I watched its Japanese counterpart, Transformers Galaxy Force instead with English subtitles. The show would be the last anime for now in Transformers mythos, but who knows? Maybe Animated will get a Japanese-only sequel if it does well over there.

    Not much I have to say about the Classics toys, other than the fact that they were all great, and during the Unicron Trilogy, I enjoyed the Alternators, Binaltech, and Masterpiece figures that we got.

    And now we move on to 2007. This was the year that brought Transformers back into the mainstream of pop culture. Now, I still think that Michael Bay cannot direct, but at least he gave us a modest live-action movie. It did incredibly well, and its success will definitely make the Transformers franchise last for a long, long time. To me, I still think the first movie was terrible, but hey, it wasn’t as bad as ROTF was. And the designs are pretty cool, but many of the characters aren’t worth owning in toy form, IMO (except for Blackout).

    Ah yes, Transformers Animated. I admit, I was one of the people who initially hated it, but I was also one of the haters who eventually saw the light and loved the hell out of it. Not since Beast Wars have I ever felt like a kid enjoying a cartoon so brilliantly done. The style is a bit…different, but this show delivers in story and characterization. This is the show that has so many cameos, homages, throwbacks, and references to other Transformers series, I actually may have to start a list of which character or object is from what other Transformers show. The toys were outstanding as well. Not one toy from Animated has made me regret buying them (though I may regret getting Activators Lockdown sometime down the road). Too bad it got shitcanned in favor of ROTF. To me, this was a bad move for Hasbro, and look where we are now with this once great line: reduced to having new toys become store exclusives. What the hell, Hasbro… :banghead: 

    Finally, we reach 2009. You’d figure that we’d get something special for the 25th Anniversary. Wanna know what we got? A sequel to the first live-action movie that is universally bad, a few new Universe toys with the 25th Anniversary logo slapped on ‘em, and the cancelation of Transformers Animated. What a terrible year overall; we didn’t even get a special movie commemorating the Transformers’ 25 years like what Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles did. Oh sure, despite the sequel being so bad, it did so well in the box office, but now the movie series has pretty much become the new Transformers for this generation. To me, this is where the Transformers of old (before the movie series) didn’t “die,” per say, but rather start to die. The movie series is like a swarm of locusts, feeding from the slowly decaying carcass that is the Transformers of old. I’ve begun to lose interest in the Transformers in general, and to back up my claim, I’ve started to get rid of at least a third of my collection (the ones being sold I may have to use the Junkion Exchange for if eBay and Craigslist don’t work out).

    And here we are now, in 2010. We’re getting a brand new show, a new video game built from the ground up, and reports of the third movie about to be made. Right now, I’m nervous. One reason is because of the Movie series and its aesthetic slowly taking over, to become the main Transformers line. I don’t hate the aesthetic; I just rather prefer my Transformers toys to be a little more traditional is all (and no, I still have no plans on even purchasing ROTF Sea Spray; not even if someone paid me all the money in the effing world to get him). Another reason is the third movie coming out next year in 2011. Considering how awful and mean-spirited the second movie was, IMO, I’m worried that the third movie may cause the end of the Transformers franchise altogether. Okay, maybe not end all of it, but just give it a bad reputation. But I might end up eating crow, and the third movie might just make up for all the mistakes the first two movies made, and it could redeem Michael Bay’s laughable career as a director. But I’m setting my expectations too high. So let’s just get through 2010, and we might see a new golden age for Transformers.

    In closing, I think Transformers will never die, just only when Hasbro runs out of ideas for it.
     
  3. AniProwl

    AniProwl Banned

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    I started to like Transformers when Beast Wars came out. I watched it almost everyday before going off to school (You guys still remember Weekday morning cartoons, right?). My first ever TF was Optimal Optimus whose head I later lost. I collect a few more TF's mostly the Transmetal 2 line.

    Then came Beast machines, I liked the show, but I just didn't like the toys.

    RID came out and I enjoyed while collecting. Then, Fox Kids wh used to air all the TF shows disappeared and so did my interest in TFs.

    So for four years, I took a break by getting into a certain children's card game and the anime craze.

    Then at late 2005, my sister got tired of me playing said card game and told me to get into a real hobby. So, I decided to go back to TF collecting and my first TF in four years was Cybertron Sideways.

    So, I watched TF: Cybertron and collect a large amount of toys in that line.

    Then, Classics came out and I bought some.

    Movie 1 came and I enjoyed it the first few time, but by the fifth time I watched I didn't enjoy it at all. The toys were kind of bleh in my opinion. I only have Ratchet, Starscream, Ironhide, and Wreckage. I only liked Wreckage among the ones i bought.
    While the movie craze was going on, I decided to look at Ebay and get some great TF toys from the years I missed collecting like Voyager Energon Megatron and Universe 1.0 Optimus Primal.

    As Animated came by, I was skeptical at first. I kind of was underwhelmed by the first season and the toys due to to quality issues in a large chunk of them. The second season I enjoyed while the third season was kind of okay.

    RoTF came out and boy Iwas I on the hate wagon already with what I've heard. However for some reason, I like the toys in this line than I have fo r thwe first one's.

    What I've seen from Toy Fair, it kind of makes up for the lack luster 25th anniversary we had last year with only toys (mostly repaints) that said 25th anniversary.

    In conlyusion, I feel the TF craze is somewhat more divided than before and instead of dying, many fans have a very bipolar attitude to the TF craze.
     
  4. Mechafire

    Mechafire Veteran

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    For me, Transformers has died and been revived multiple times, but I've never really lost interest in the hobby. When Transformers had been "dead" to me (BM/RID/Unicron Trilogy), I just went back and tried to finish up my other, incomplete lines (G1, Beast Wars, Victory). I mean, sure, maybe I bought a few toys from those lines that I thought were cool, but since I loathed the media that came along with those shows, I wasn't that hardcore as I was with Beast Wars, or as I would be in the future with Animated. But that's bordering on a full on BM/RID/Unicron trilogy rant, and lord knows I've already done enough of those. When something was released in between that I liked, I would definitely buy them (Classics, Alternators, etc.). Then when something better popped up (Bayformers, Animated, Universe), and they really revived the franchise for me.

    I can definitely see where Kickback's coming from. It's all a matter of opinion and, to a certain degree, nostalgia.
     
  5. Chaos Muffin

    Chaos Muffin Misadventure Veteran

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    It's too overwhelming anymore , but I do dig all the varieties.

    RID was the simple days. It was'nt hard to stay caught up. Which made it more exciting to see what's next on the way. The fandom almost felt like family.
    Now it's a market thunderstorm, Hasbro aiming for every single person.

    But it's cool, because Im about to buy Classics Thrust for ten dollars
     
  6. Emperor Megatron

    Emperor Megatron Something goes here

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    I have to agree with Kickback. I've become much more of a lurker of the Transformers fansites, I used to be pretty active but with the last two movies the fandom has changed and the way Transformers are heading has changed too. I don't particularly care for the movie designs, I have a couple toys but not many. Of course, I've grown up more and spending money on Transformers has changed drastically for me. I like some of the new stuff from Toy Fair but other priorities have taken over in my life limiting my spending money. RID was the last toyline that pushed the limits of transformation. Today, there are so many varieties around it's amazing. It's great Transformers is extremely popular. I just don't care for Animated or the movie toys. The new stuff from toyfair has me intrigued and War for Cybertron looks interesting. I also feel that the movies are subpar. I used to really like the 2007 one but I just don't anymore. I think the G1 movie is better than these two we got from Bay.
     
  7. Kickback

    Kickback Proud father Administrator News Staff

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    That's why the title of the thread starts with the word "OPINION" ... because it's my opinion. That's something that's been lost on these forums over the last two years, the fact that people have opinions and whether or not you agree or disagree does not change the fact that an opinion is neither wrong nor right - just an opinion.

    Maybe when your inner child grows some more you'll realize this too.

    Someone shouldn't apply the logic of thinking a toy franchise died because it stopped being exciting and innovative to a relationship that's just not interesting anymore.

    Personally speaking, as a guy who has had probably too many relationships in his life, I wish I would have pronounced MORE relationships "dead" sooner than drawing them out in to something much more painful, irritating, and harder to get over by trying to "make it work" because "I can't give up". That's borderline obsessive, which is much more unhealthy to a relationship than walking away with your head held high.

    And for the record ... my life is quite satisfying, my heartbreaks are very, very few, and the only part of my "past" that haunts me is everytime I look at a shelf and see some awesome toys that today's toys just don't match in quality or standard.

    I see blue, you see red, and we should just leave it at that. Though I do appreciate the underlying trolling and flamebait with your posts towards me in this thread. Keeps the blood flowin' ;) 
     
  8. LadyK

    LadyK likes to lurk...

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    Gah. This thread grows a page or two for every one that I read, so I'm just gonna stop to post now.

    I didn't get into Transformers until Animated, and for me, it's not dead - in fact, my TF fandom is just starting to live, really.

    I think the TF franchise in general will continue to live as long as there are little kids being brought in early by the cartoons and becoming fans for life, growing up to be older "kids" that continue collecting the toys and/or writing the comics and cartoons, animating, et cetera - not to mention older "kids" such as myself getting hooked in with a new series and then catching up on the older ones (I actually picked up the G1 season one DVD around the holidays after downloading a couple episodes, and plan to pick up Beast Wars at some point as well, as that's what I'd have grown up with had I gotten into TF earlier).

    Sure, the series are pretty hit-and-miss with most fans as far as I've seen, but with so many incarnations, that's bound to happen. If it "dies" for you at some point, just be patient - something new will probably revive your fandom eventually.
     
  9. Coolhand

    Coolhand Spiff's Stunt Double

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    Not a bad idea that.

    For me, the franchise was at its best when Alternators were around. I know a lot of people had real problems with the line but, for me, they were finest damn transformers ever to come out of the factory. The aesthetic hit me in all the right places, I loved the scale, the detailed vehicles, the complexity, the nostalgia of seeing my old toys re-invented. They got me back into TF’s after my long gone G1 school days and, along with Masterpieces, comprise the majority of my collection. Sure I’ve got the odd the Classics and Movie figure, but I don’t cherish them the way I do Alts. So when that line ended I was gutted. And honestly nothing’s really grabbed me the same way since. (HA is very close and is probably the only recent line I actually intended to collect in its entirety)

    So for me, the death of that line was the end of the “Golden Age.” For other people, the death of Alternators was good riddance to something they loathed. So crumbles the cookie. It's so subjective at the end of the day. I honestly can’t see the appeal of anything RiD related, but I’m glad RiD is there for those who enjoy it. Same with Animated. Glad so many people loved it; not my cup of tea at all.

    It's interesting to read through Kickback's Opinion piece. His opinion is hugely different to mine as I love Alts and have no interest in RiD, but it's always cool to mull over someone else view of life, the universe and everything.
     
  10. Ruination04

    Ruination04 8 Years Old Since 1984!

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    To me, Transformers died after G1. Everything since has been trying to feed off, tie back to, etc. G1.


    G1 is so iconic and that's you always have the red & blue Prime, your 3-5 main characters with G1 names, based off of G1 personalities, and sooner or later, the G1 repaints.

    Regardless of how bad the art was or how bricklike the toys were, G1 is the measuring stick.
     
  11. ams

    ams Generation All Veteran

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    I've been here since the start of TFW, and prior to that, was on ATT before 1995... which means nothing, other than the fact I've seen a lot of things happen in that time.

    Over the years, I've noticed a trend - those who have a more moderate and casual take on TFs are less likely to burn out and find themselves alienated by whatever iteration the franchise is currently taking. The vast majority of the Admins, Mods, and Vets seem to fit that description. My take on KB's thoughts is that he's saying, "damn, it's been ten years since I really felt engaged in what's going on with TFs", a perspective I can appreciate, even if I don't share it. Even for the most casual of fans, that's a long time to go without feeling that rush.

    For a long time I've seen the Transformers brand much like a beloved sports team. There are good years and bad years, but there always remains an underlying desire to see growth and success. While I see myself drifting away from the toys eventually, as long as TFs are around I'm sure I'll be popping my head in to see what's going on.
     
  12. Awesomus Prime

    Awesomus Prime I rise, you fall.

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    Personally, I think Robots in Disguise is a load of feces. Poor story, poor characters, poor animation, and poor voice acting. It was a complete step down from Beast Machines (which wasn't all that great either, mind you). But, that's just me.

    Here's my response to your entire piece: Transformers is aimed at kids first, and hardcore, old-school fans second. It just is. And I think a lot of us tend to forget that. As long as children continue to purchase and enjoy the products, Hasbro could really care less what the older fans think. Sure, they throw us a bone every once in a while. But, honestly, I'm surprised they even do that.

    The only reason Animated even appeals to a lot of us is because the show had a staff of writers who happend to be hardcore fans and, as such, felt it necessary to cram as much G1 nostalgia into the series as possible.

    Even if this sounds cheesy, the franchise, like it's characters, is always transforming. Each series' first priority is to appeal to a younger, newer audience. Things will never be exactly the same as G1, and I'm happy they won't. Part of the franchise's charm is watching it reboot, reinvent, and reorganize itself constantly.
     
  13. herugrim

    herugrim N/A

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    Sorry Kickback, all I hear is: 'Geewun!Geewun!Geewun!Geewun!Geewun!Geewun!Geewun!Geewun!Geewun!Geewun!!!'

    I was born the same year transformers began, so I don't remember the start. I remember catching the show on television and buying figures whenever my parents would let me, which wasn't often. I was much older when Beast Wars hit and I was an instant fan! Have been ever since. Not only did I and do I still think Beast Wars is the best Transformers show, it's one of the best cartoons ever made for American audiences. Not because it had ties to G1, but because it had plain excellent writing. To date this is the only transformers show that actually focused on the transformers themselves, developing their own characters and dealing with serious issues like mortality, environmentalism, ethics, pacifism, and even existentialism.

    Beast Machines was just weird. I never caught it on television and I haven't gotten around to trying to buy it or anything.

    Robots in Disguise I thought was a nice throwback to the originals after Beast Wars reinvented the series. Problem was when I actually watched the show and checked out the figures. The show was the worst I'd seen yet (only because I hadn't seen the Japanese G1 shows). Sure there was some great characters like Skybite and Scourge, but in the end it was just a show about children and their pet Fortress Maximus. The toyline was worse then I remember. Yeah it had gems like Omega Prime and the other combiners, but 75% of the line were repaints of Machine Wars, Beast Wars, and G2, some of the worst figures in Transformers history. Moreso, even many of the new molds were crap. RID Megatron looked great, yeah, but 4 or so of his 6 modes were garbage. All three car brothers looked like someone messed up. X-Brawn and Sideburn were horribly unbalanced robots plagued by loose joints and weapons that looked like crap. Prowl was decent but in the end the design aesthetics prevented him from being any more articulated then his floppy brothers. A terrible toyline, I'm glad I missed it.

    Armada was for kids, yes. But it was no more so really then RID. The figures were mostly bricks based around cheap gimmicks with tiny transformers. A few of them hit on something good like Sideways and his double headmaster minicon gimmick. Others had great design aesthetics like Tidal Wave. And the show actually wasn't bad after you got past the minicon collecting quest, though it wasn't much better then RID.

    Energon is a highly underrated series. It had the most G1 homage’s by far and all the figures had at least a basic level of articulation. People the combination gimmick for the autobots ruined the design aesthetics but they don't bother mentioning that all the figures, even when combined, still have that basic articulation. Sure it doesn't look that good sometimes, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. There was nothing RID like about the Decepticons. They could all stand up without flopping over, and most of them were even fairly proportionate and well designed. The show wasn't as bad as most people say, either. Granted Kicker is a horrible character and Ironhide was terrible all around, but the main reason people don't like it is because they don't like the toys and they don't like the cell shaded graphics. Me, I was able to see past all that. I enjoyed getting a story that actually had a continuity and most of all I liked seeing Megatron get a worthy resurrection scene.

    Cybertron was hit and miss. The cyber keys were the worst gimmicks yet. At least with minicons we got actual little transformers and with the energon gimmicks didn't lock the figures unless you had this little piece of plastic. Leobreaker looked great, until you had him combine with Optimus. Optimus and Megatron were both great figures, but besides a handful of others it ends there. The show was horrible, it took all the worst parts of Armada and Energon and did nothing to improve. The only thing it had going for it was the fight scenes. The special effects were actually rather nice.

    Nothing came for a long time after Cybertron. Just before the movie line hit we got a taste of classics which everybody enjoyed. The movie came along and reinvented the series again. I can understand if some people still don't like the character designs of the movie, but that doesn't mean that are actually bad designs. The transformers in the movie pushed special effects to new heights. They feature an amount of detail that nobody's ever seen before. In relation the transformation mechanics for the figures went to new heights of complexity and diversity. If the sublines with Animated and Universe are any hint, Hasbro/Takara-Tomy are desperately trying to suppress these new complex mechanics and go for something simpler. Can't really blame them, I'm sure it's very difficult to engineer these designs. Hopefully they don't get too lazy and the next line after the movies die out is another Armada brickfest.

    Animated just seems to endorse the theory of lazy engineering. It's a show with horrifically simplistic artwork under the guise of having a manga-inspired style. The stories aren't bad, but they still revolve around the humans and the Transformers themselves are reduced to pets and support roles. Personally I have no interest in the human characters, I want to know more about the transformers. Animated hit a few interesting points with a few characters but didn't come close to reaching the level of storytelling Beast Wars had. The toys were mostly terrible. The only ones I liked were the leader class Megatron and Ultra Magnus. I really don't see how anybody could like the complex designs of the combiners from RID could also like the simplistic, child-oriented style of the Animated line.

    What it all boils down to, is that whether the old nerds like the movie or not doesn't matter. As many others have said the Transformers live action movies brought the series back into mainstream, and place it hasn't been since 1986. Beast Wars didn't bring it back, and neither did RID. I don’t think the Gewunners have anything to fear, either. This live action film set will come to a close within the next few years, and Hasbro has actually displayed an active interest in restoring the series to it’s generation 1 roots. Despite the fact that they’ve already got multiple lines running at once, they still give us new classic-styled figures, even when there’s no classic series to release them to. Bludgeon is an excellent example. We’ve all seen the video that Hasbro put together in response to the movie designs, where we see highly detailed CG character models of G1 Prime and Megatron tearing into each other akin to the original Transformers movie. There can be little doubt that the people running the department of Hasbro that deals with this series are all fans of it. They will bring back the originals, even if the networks aren’t willing to sign deals that allow them to make a truly Gewunny series.
     
  14. Spoiler

    Spoiler Autobot Spoiler

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    I'd have to say I agree with ya for the most part there Kickback. I will probably miss a show or 2 so forgive me.

    G1:no brainer, it was and will always be my favorite.
    G2:wasn't as into as G1, but...
    Beast Wars: I hardly watched the show, I think the toys are great
    RID: I haven't watched maybe 1 or 2 episodes, but figures are great ideas.
    Armada, Cybertron, Energon: Same as Kickback, Unicron was awesome not so much other stuff
    Classics, Universe, Generations: great way to make G1 and stuff a more up to date style
    Movie 1: a lot of the toys were great, but...
    Movie 2: seemed to work a few more bugs out of some designs, I.e Leader Optimus. While most don't like the movie, I do..but not gonna get into that.
    Animated: I didn't really get into the show, however the toys themselves I couldn't even resist buying, almost makes me wanna watch the show now...almost
     
  15. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Wow, that was a bit petty, wasn't it? Normally, I might say "we're done here", but I think you still made some fair points I'd like to respond to. But on flaming and growing up... duuuuuude! :) 

    First off, the post you quoted from me above wasn't even directed at you, but regarding "opinion"... sometimes "opinions" are wrong. That's something that's been lost over the years. Everyone is so obsessed with their right to hold an opinion and speak it, they forget that in a free world, everybody else has a right to look at their opinion and say openly "Y'know what? I think that's ridiculous!". Let's remember that other people are entitled to their opinions on our opinions, when we stand on that soapbox.

    This case IS a bit different because we're talking about FEELINGS, so yeah... "right and wrong" doesn't really apply.

    You expressed your feelings on the issue. I disagree with your opinion, and I said so. I also apologized for maybe coming off as dismissive about your feelings.

    What I tried to clarify is that it can come down to one's approach in versing their opinion. Depending on how you word your opinion (or your response to someone's opinion, in my case) you encourage people to respond differently. C'est tout. No need for hostility.

    Yes, obviously we're talking about two different things... but the philosophy behind it is the same. There are all sorts of things in life that excite us, that appeal to us... and sometimes it's a matter of the place, the time, the ambience, the crowd, the novelty, etc... and a few years down the road, that excitement isn't there like it used to be. This can reflect your feelings for a toy line, a sport, a neighborhood, a music scene, a person...

    But the thing is, I think we need to accept that these euphoric phases of fascination never last indefinitely, or with the same intensity. However, that normal lapse in excitement doesn't always mean that what is there is not worthwhile anymore. Or "dead".

    True, not all relationships are destined to last, not all people evolve in compatible ways, etc... sometimes you need to call it quits. I understand that.

    It's admirable that you did stick it out in some of your relationships to see if you could "make it work"... at least you left knowing that you did make the effort, and it still wasn't happening. But I'd say that there's a difference between quitting because there are inherent ongoing problems, and quitting because it's just not as exciting or passionate as it was in the first year, and then blaming it on the girl (in this case, the girl's name is "Transformers" ;)  ).

    I'm coming at this from a different point of view obviously. I've been living with the same girl for 16 years, and it's still good. 16 years later, it's not as "exciting" as it was when we first got together. We're both a little squishier than we used to be, and everything that seemed new then is now ancient history... but she's still the best part of my life, every damn day. I'm not a teenager riding a hormone-high anymore, but I'm a happy man.

    Now clearly we're talking about 2 very different scales of importance, but I also still love Transformers. There have been a lot more lousy figures I shouldn't have bought, and I have an inability to emotionally connect to ANY characters or fiction after the first 3 years of G1. I know I'll never fully capture that Christmas Morning High from my childhood. I know I'll never see sweet realistic car modes with diecast metal and rubber tires like those gorgeous old Diaclones...

    But I also recognize that the franchise is as healthy, innovative and progressive as it's ever been, with products appealing to a wide range of demographics. I like many of the people I know in the fandom, I enjoy the broad forum we have here, and often the community spirit I've found here really surprises me. So it's all good.

    It's true, you might never get back to those glory days when you and a handful of others built the foundation of the whole internet TF fandom, and RID toys were rekindling your excitement in the brand. But just because it's not as good as it was then, I'm just saying... maybe it's not really "dead" either.

    Maybe it's not GREAT... maybe it's just good, and that's OK... ?

    Well, that's good at least... maybe you're the kind of guy who needs a slap in the face to get his spirits up? :D 

    Unless you're just being sarcastic...:redface2: 

    But either way, you misunderstand me. There was a bit of eyeball-rolling wank-wank in my first response to your OP... and I even apologized for that a page or so back.

    Everything since then has been 100% Grade-A SMOG sincerity. We're disagreeing, and we're discussing it... and I think that's cool. If that lil' bit of debate feels like "underlying trolling and flamebait" to you, maybe you do need to get your blood flowing again... could be you've been an admin and out of the trenches too long? ;) 

    zmog
     
  16. Grimlock_13

    Grimlock_13 Insert Clever Title Here

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    *After proofreading my post and seeing I wrote 'IMO' more than ten times I decided to do it the blanket way: Everything below is soleley based on my opinion and should not be taken as fact in any way shape or form. You don't like it, I really don't give a shit.*

    Eh, the RiD toyline was spectacular (got me back into collecting) but the cartoon is one of the lowest points for the franchise. It was just awful on all accounts. Of course I can't really stand any of the cartoons past beast Machines. G1 is my favorite generation but I can only tolerate the cartoon.

    I agree with your assessment of Armada. I recognize it was a major player in revitalizing the Transformers name for kids but it still doesn't make me like the toys any better which were a MASSIVE step back from CR/RiD. Energon was a step in the right direction (again talking about the toys NOT the cartoon) in briding the gap between the target market and collectors and Cybertron for the most part knocked the ball out of the park. Classics came out and I automatically loved it since it was what I wanted since I got back into collecting. Universe followed suit and Generations looks even better than Universe with only a couple new molds shown.

    Honestly the Movie toys have some gems here and there but I find myself buying those in passing until what I REALLY want comes out.

    So long story short, TFs didn't die after RiD, they still had about 5 years left until it was really reborn for my interests.
     
  17. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm To Infinity - and Your Mom TFW2005 Supporter

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    It's interesting to see so many people pull out the same arguments that Kickback has almost certainly used toward others when they put up a "Things were better then they suck now It's only my opinion stop trying to disagree with me" thread. I'm not saying I can't identify with the sentiment though. Maybe it's the use of the word "dead" when as a profitable toy line Transformers is clearly thriving that stirs up the pot. I see it more as a "they lost me" kind of thing.

    One could say Transformers "died" to me somewhere around 1987, as the line got more gimmicky with 'masters and Pretenders and such, combined with the idea I was too old for toys. The cartoon had ended, and I never got deep enough into the comics. I still kept an eye on the line, and bought the occasional toy, but wasn't really 'into' it at the time. G2 was interesting in that it gave me a chance to get some toys and characters missed out on as a young'un, when I had my own money to buy them, but between other priorities in life and the lackluster shelf presence of G2, I wasn't 'caught', until...

    Around 1996 I joined the internet for the first time, Also I discovered Beast Wars and found G2 Laser Optimus at a flea market. Finding all the fan sites and such, along with the "Holy crap when did they start making toys like THIS!?" feeling, made me into a full-time fan and collector. At first it was all about recapturing the feeling (and toys) of my youth, as well as geeking out over mid-to-late nineties TF tech. I got more into the show, and it also became about characters. I had to get me Rattrap and Waspinator toys, and pay because they were already rotated out of stores by then. Over years of complex, fully articulated TF toys, I started learning what does and (even more so) doesn't work for me in toys, like unstable and complexity for its own sake. By the time we got around to Energon and Cybertron, toys were reaching a balance that I liked, not too simple, not too complex, largely avoiding the annoying/frustrating aspects of many toys of the beast era and RiD. Perhaps this is why I like so many of Alex Kubalsky's designs as much as I do - several of them are what I might call elegant, with clever lideas and little wasted effort in transformation. There was one other aspect, which took me a while to even learn existed.

    Why are there toys that make me think 'meh' even when my brain tells me it's a well-designed, well-made toy? Why do I love Energon Grimlock when hardly anyone else on Earth does? Why is Animated full of awesome? Why is Classics Bumblebee the best thing in the history of ever? I didn't understand for a long time, until I found out that toys have 'soul' - the feeling of life and character found in an inanimate hunk of plastic. It's an incredibly subjective thing - sometimes it's found in the sculpt or proportions or stance of the toy itself, sometimes it comes from outside, where an enjoyable character from TV, comics, or movies transplants its essence into a toy representation of it. Optimus Prime and many of the classic characters are the kings of soul, to the point where someone can want a largely unrelated toy of an unrelated character with a different name, just because it has some visual homages to the character they like. I mentioned Energon Grimlock and Classics Bumblebee earlier because I feel the toys are particularly strong carriers of the essence of their respective characters. E. Grimlock isn't a super-duper toy, but looks like a stocky brawling bruiser with Wolverine-like claws. Classics Bumblebee is a short, slightly awkward guy with a friendly smile on his face, practically carrying the feel of the buddy-bot from the cartoon over wholesale. I practically went ape when I first learned of the BW 10th anniversary line, and its more show-accurate Waspinator toy. On toys like those of the Animated line, one needs only look at the stylized toys, and it's possible to get a sense of who the characters are even with no other supporting material, just from their build, their face, their soul.

    I've been 'in' for close to fifteen years now, so I doubt I'll be lost to TFs anytime soon, or that I'll declare it 'dead' to me when it's not dead to Hasbro. If anything would lose me, it would be the passing of Animated, as that line was heavy with soul, and there will likely never be anything quite like it again. Movie toys are a bit too alien, and often feel soulless to me (and the movies themselves haven't injected a lot of personality into them either.) and that style has been influencing other lines and media since its success. I could divide that into the 'good old days' when I liked stuff more and now, but time will tell if that actually happens or not. I suspect that as long as I find one toy out of ten that still can capture my imagination (Bludgeon did a pretty good job), Transformers will never be dead to me.
     
  18. Matrixbeast

    Matrixbeast Here comes a thought

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    I oppose that opinion. Yes they have the names thing going on, but that's because they're recognizable. But look at the anime series? They do so little to tie themselves it's not funny. In RID, Optimus was all almost all red, the Ironhide in Energon having an extremely different personality to his G1 counterpart, same goes to Starscream in Energon, being silent and EXTREMELY loyal to Megatron. The Scourge of RID and Cybertron also apply. Beast Wars wasn't all that connected to G1 until later in the series, and he wasn't even named Prime. That and in Beast Wars there were loads of characters that don't even have a G1 counterpart. And when they do, it's on the opposite side of the scale in terms of personality (Inferno and Scorpinok, for two). Really, the only one that actually feeds off G1 is Animated.

    Basically what I'm saying that similar names =/= similar characters, nor do similar designs. You can have your opinion, I just oppose it :p 
     
  19. MekaGojira3k

    MekaGojira3k Well-Known Member

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    I might've agreed with this back in 2004, but Animated happened. And then I'd only agree about it in terms of effective media. Armada just didn't fit right with me despite my love of the designs and the concept. Transformers can never really die though, it can only transform.

    Like the Bayverse Allspark.

    Or the toys.

    or Jeff Goldblum.
     
  20. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    never mind.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010