One Shall Rise, Part 3 - Episode Description on TFWiki

Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by ahunmaster, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. Sockie

    Sockie Veteran

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    I really don't think such a plan would tie too well into Unicron or the Dark Energon disasters.

    Assuming it's possible for such a story to be written in the first place.

    True. All right, when Ratchet was pumped up on Synthetic Energon, why didn't he just blow the Energon mine that Megatron was in to kingdom come? In fact, considering how irrational Ratchet was that whole episode, you'd think he'd be using that kind of power like crazy.

    Assuming that's the actual Unicron and not an avatar of his. But it's too early to tell. Of course, what you're implying suggests that the Autobots and Decepticon already are practically gods.

    Surely they could hold back their power so as to not to annhilate the entire planet--after all, you already believe they're holding it back to small energy bursts, yes? Also, why couldn't they have just used that power to blow up the orbital Space Bridge? Surely that would be even safer than using it for purposes on Earth. On another note, this would make all past battles in the series seem sort of... petty if you consider what scale Cybertronians are really capable of fighting on.

    I don't recall that being confirmed anywhere; heck, it's usually been the same size or smaller in other continuities.
     
  2. Xaddion

    Xaddion ...

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    That's not Unicron...

    That's his tongue.
     
  3. Primal Sabbath

    Primal Sabbath Well-Known Member

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    As much as I love G1... That doesn't count... Shapeshifting was a pretty big ordeal.... Soundwave-- nuff said.

    Honestly, movies aside, TF Prime is, I believe the only continuity that actually keeps the scale in check... Animated might have... I honestly can't remember.
    In Beast Wars the Maximals & Predacons were far more smaller than their predecessors... So again... There's no way that Cybertron is the same size as Earth in TF Prime... Rewind to WFC for a moment (regardless what anyone thinks, it's already been said that Prime & WFC & Exodus are all in the same clusterfuck)... Trypticon falling to Cybertron. The Aerialbots are about the size of jets/airliners, the fact that whilst you're shooting the balls off of Trypticon the whole time he's falling, you can't visually make out, not one single bot or building groundside... And their planet is in scale to them.... Cybertron = much bigger than earth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2011
  4. Ribieconvoy

    Ribieconvoy It's pronounced "ribby"

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    Interesting, I knew they'd evaluate on Ratchet's comment about Jack, it SCREAMED "foreshadowing."
     
  5. bio9205

    bio9205 Knocked Out

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    Scale in TFP? Have you seen the relative size of their vehicle modes? Arcee especially.
     
  6. moreprimeland

    moreprimeland Optimus told me to do it! Moderator

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    Uh oh, here we go again....... :) 
     
  7. StarYoshi14

    StarYoshi14 Well-Known Member

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    That would be amazing.
     
  8. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    I don’t follow; what wouldn’t tie too well into Unicron or Dark Energon? Bridging to the core? I don’t see how else they’re going to get there.
    Of course it’s possible, but is it probable is the real question? Like I said earlier though, Megatron never tried to blow up Cybertron. From his point of view, he’s saving it, so why would he want to destroy it? Earth, aside from its abundant resources, means nothing to Megatron.
    Probably because he planned to get the Energon for his fellow comrades. He did boast about discovering such a score before Prime and all before heading off to do Megatron in—funny thing about Ratchet was, he was strong, but not that strong. He felt at the top of his game, the best he’s felt in years. Sadly, while drunk on his own successes (or shortcomings) he had forgotten about how strong Megatron really is, and had to discover that out the hard way. Lucky for him his friends were nearby to save him.
    What does it matter if its Unicron or a stand in? Unicron endows his agents with his own powers—Megatron has shown us as much with just a sliver of Energon. Unicron’s powers are godly.
    Holding back the power to destroy worlds would prevent one from unleashing said powers.

    But they did blow up the Space Bridge, and it was done as an absolute last resort. By destroying the Space Bridge, the Autobots destroyed their only means of ever returning home.

    I disagree. If fighting with all of ones might will bring ruin to a world as it did to ones own, why would you do the same elsewhere if you intended to prevent your war doing the same elsewhere? The Autobots trying to protect Earth, not destroy it. Besides, recently, the game has changed. Optimus has called Megatron out, and he’s doing what he can to put an end to things before they get out of hand—still, he will not put the world he swore to protect in Jeopardy. I honestly believe that Prime will die himself before allowing this world to be destroyed.

    I think you mixed up another posts with mine, but I agree with you about the size issue. I always thought Cybertron was the size of our world or just a wee bit smaller.
     
  9. Sockie

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    No, holding the Earth hostage. That seems very... un-Unicronish.

    Not what I meant. I meant, is it possible for a story where Autobots and Decepticons are running, blowing up planets with their power alone? I personally don't think so; that's jumping the shark.

    It doesn't matter if he was "not that strong"; according to what you're saying, he can still blow up planets. Seriously, if Ratchet had that kind of power in his mental state at the time, he would not have hesitated to use it regardless of the Energon.

    It doesn't affect anything if Unicron's a god or not; what you're suggesting is that the Autobots and Decepticons can destroy planets. As I said previously, that would make them just as godly as Unicron.

    Then why can't they use a higher percent than they are right now? Why do they HAVE to use all of that power at once aside from a little bit?

    But they could have done it far easier, and they still would have had to make the choice of doing it or not; I'm not saying it would suddenly be an easy choice to make. I'm just saying that the Autobots wouldn't have had to risk their lives once they made the choice.

    But as I said above, why would you need to use all of that power? I also find it incredibly hard to believe that all of the Decepticons have been holding back regardless of Megatron's need for the planet--particularly Airachnid when she arrived in "Predatory." Or why didn't Starscream use it when he thought Arcee was going to kill him? Self-preservation would definitely be a higher priority to him than Earth.

    No, I felt like responding to that one as well.
     
  10. spiritprime

    spiritprime Dudes, I'm a girl!

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    The season finale will be so worth it over the next three weeks. 8D Bring it on!
     
  11. janeDoe001

    janeDoe001 Well-Known Member

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    Hell-to-the-YEAH!


    jD001
     
  12. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    Why hold it hostage? They’re taking from it just fine with little to no incident.
    Megatron is still plans to have his newly constructed Space Bridge placed at the foot of the Volcano to harvest Dark Energon. Perhaps the Earth’s core is where this is all going.

    Unicron, the father of our sins?
    Why would they? The Autobots want to protect sentient life, and the Decepticons want to subjugate the universe; if they destroy worlds there will be nothing to rule.
    Ratchet wasn’t crazy. And he wasn’t willing to jeopardize anyone’s life but his own. Ratchet, by the way, appears to be the only Autobot without a projectile weapon.

    Precisely. I am of the mindset that Primus gave his children the means to combat Unicron—no matter the continuity, they do just that.

    Why do you think the highly advanced race of sentient robotic beings isn’t capable of doing such? I can’t help but think that you, like the movies/comics, are attempting to make them appear more like us. Their science and engineering is leaps and bounds beyond ours. Not only do that have the science to replace their defective/destroyed appendages perfectly they also poses the means to travel from world to world in the blink of an eye.
    We would need to know more about their weaponry to answer that question now, wouldn’t we? Our most powerful weapons are harmful to life. It’s possible that the Cybertronian’s more powerful weapons are harmful to life as well. How do we know their current munitions could be giving off radiation now, somewhere between low and high.

    Would you make the quick decision to destroy your only means of returning home? From what we’ve seen of Optimus, that’s not him. He’s the sort of guy that’ll do whatever it takes to hold the line, and should that fail only then would he consider making a big sacrifice like they did at the end of the five part premier.
    Are all Cybertronians created equal? I’m sure some are weaker than others as we’ve seen over the show—every Decepticon can’t be like Megatron. If they were, he wouldn’t have gone off looking for Unicron’s blood to build a larger army.
    You want the Decepticon’s to blow up a world they wish to subjugate; Megatron wants to rule Earth according to Optimus Prime, so why would he blow it up?

    Airachnid doesn’t do things for the hell of it; she does it for sport.

    You propose that he blow up the earth too, to go kamikaze on Arcee? Starscream enjoys life, my man. He was vying to save himself with his mastery of manipulation. He was banking on the fact that Arcee would be more Autobot than avenger and he gambled right. Though had his scheme gone south, I don’t doubt that he would have done whatever it took to save his life had he been in serious trouble, though I doubt he would have killed himself to kill Arcee.

    That’s cool, but you made it look like I said it, as you dropped the original posters name from the quote.
     
  13. janeDoe001

    janeDoe001 Well-Known Member

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    I'm gonna guess that Ratchet tells him about Optimus. Or at least a little bit before going out into the field, then Jack takes it upon himself to learn more.


    jD001
     
  14. Goldlock

    Goldlock and don't call me Shirley

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    I don't think it's ever been in any continuity that regular Autobots/Decepticons have enough power to destroy planets (perhaps G1 Megatron's toy bio, but they were dodgey at best IMO). If it were the case, there'd be no 'huge' threat from Unicron; no need for the Matrix, or any point to the 13 really...

    Personally, I just can't see it. As for Megs trying to blow up the core (somehow), that'd be like putting his own cannon to his head, since the yield of the blast would incinerate him no problem along with everyone else. Which would be very counter-productive. :p 

    Didn't Megs say he was building his Space-bridge at the volcano because of the vision he'd had; intending to harvest the Dark Energon from space as he had done previously...except Bulkhead carried a piece of their bridge away, so it's pretty useless now anyway.

    I'ma say the big rock-thing is Unicron, just because it all fits together nicely with what's happening. Now let's be having the finale so we can all see! :D 
     
  15. Sockie

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    ... Because that's exactly what you just suggested they might be doing. =|

    And as I said before, the moment there's an accident? The moment an Autobot or Decepticon gets too caught up in the heat of battle? It isn't simple as "Autobots want to protect, Decepticons want to rule; therefore, stuff will never be destroyed!"

    Why didn't Ratchet at least suggest that the others use enough of that power to crush the Decepticons? You'd think if they had power like that, he would have been demanding that they use it. The fact that he didn't care about the consequences of assaulting the Decepticons in the first place shows that he wouldn't have cared about the consequences of using that power.

    What if there isn't a Primus in this continuity? Then what? And what if they don't even end up using this power you're suggesting they have to defeat Unicron? Then giving it to them was absolutely pointless and might have caused destruction than it did salvation.

    And yet, having the power to blow up planets on a whim is nothing compared to that. I'm not "attempting to make them appear like us"--I'm attempting to make them appear like the characters we've already seen on the show. I might as well say youre trying to make them appear like characters out of Dragon Ball Z. Giving them planet-destroying capabilities just does not work. Is there anything at all suggesting that they have this kind of power beyond "mysterious science?" I could just as much say that their science allows them to manipulate reality with a snap of their fingers, but they dare not abuse it. Plus, you'd think that'd have been some mention of it by now. That Megatron would have at least said something along the lines of "Do remember to hold back, Prime--you wouldn't want all of your precious humans reduced to nothing, would you?"

    Or it's possible that the Cybertronians can't blow up planets at all. I have as much basis that they can hold back as you do that they can destroy worlds. And then what about that Prime tie-in comic? Why didn't Arcee, Cliffjumper, Starscream, and all of those Vehicons use that kind of power on a world that was already dead?

    I never said it would be quick. But that reminds me... they DID come to a quick decision at the end of "Darkness Rising." Their whole purpose for coming up to the Space Bridge was to destroy it. Now, why would Optimus risk his troops' lives like this when there was a much easier way that would have also resulted in less Decepticon deaths?

    Okay, this entire argument has been based around "all Cybertronians can destroy planet cores." Now you're just saying "only a few can do it?"

    Who said they'd have to use all of their power? The Decepticons wouldn't care about how much damage they do to the planet--just as long as they can still plunder its resources.

    I never said anything about blowing himself up; just using enough of it to attempt to blow Arcee away.

    Wasn't my intention. Sorry.
     
  16. Primal Sabbath

    Primal Sabbath Well-Known Member

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    Arcee compared to humans? Yeah a tad off... Arcee compared to the other bots? Seems perfectly in scale to me... Besides, they're transformers, they transform; multiple moving nanites, plenty of room for things to fold in and upon eachother. Because they're in scale with eachother in the show doesn't mean the toys will be btw... I'm not talking about product, I'm talking about fiction. And they're legitimately in scale in the fiction.
     
  17. Sonscreen

    Sonscreen Casual TF collector<br><b><font color=#FF0000>aksm TFW2005 Supporter

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    Can't wait.
     
  18. Lazerwave

    Lazerwave My Most Prized Treasure

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    I've always wondered what Ratchet ment by Optimus was more like Jack when he was young. Maybe when Optimus was young, he always tried to drive around being cool, Trying to be better than the rival and try to get the girl (maybe like in Animated, You know Optimus and Sentinel) or Optimus had an over protective mom.
     
  19. janeDoe001

    janeDoe001 Well-Known Member

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    Nah, I think he was just more responsible than anyone else.


    jD001
     
  20. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    I did indeed. When I said this:
    I was wondering what would stop Dark Energon possessed Megatron from blowing up the core—I don’t think Megatron, in the right frame of mind, would do such a thing, but as he isn’t himself, but an agent of Unicron now, he might. Unicron’s very thoughts stop him dead in his tracks. When empowered by Dark Energon, Megatron may not be able to easily resist an order like destroy the Prime.

    Apparently Unicron is indestructible, his blood is scattered throughout the universe and yet he still lives, so destroying the Earth’s core, one would think, wouldn’t hurt him one iota.

    Not if they’re pulling their punches or holding back their firepower manually. How do we know that their blaster rifles or what have you don’t have power settings? We don’t, of course, but this is why I said “what if?” Regardless of their emotional state, if they manually set themselves to not exceed a certain limit, they’ll never exceed that setting—look at Bumblebee in Animated; he had no idea that he had combat stingers or how to activate them. Ratchet did it for him when he felt it was deemed absolutely necessary to do so. I know this isn’t animated, but no matter the continuity, the Transforers have shared traits across continuities—some here already feel that ratchet's welding torch has several settings itself, so assuming a blaster has setting 1 or 100 isn’t a far stretch.
    In the case of synthesized Energon, Bulk suggested that they all use the stuff—Optimus flat out said no. That same episode showed us that everyone was basically running on fumes. Ratchet even chastised Prime for not finishing off Megatron before when he had the chance, and it sounded like he had several chances to do so, but that isn’t Prime’s goal, well, not until recently anyway. Optimus wants the Autobots and the Decepticons to mend their ways—he doesn’t enjoy killing his brethren, and deep down I don’t think the Autobots do either—Bulkhead managed to get passed his differences with Knockout to help him when he was in serious trouble and Arcee realized that revenge wasn’t what she was looking for even though she had the opportunity to take it.
    Isn’t the passage from which Optimus quoted in the episode entitled One Shall Fall taken from the Covenant of Primus? Every continuity that brought up a covenant was the Covenant of Primus.

    If Primus wasn’t part of this continuity, they would still need some way to defeat Unicron. Surely the writers would right something in to do just that. The Matrix of Leadership’s blinding light or the combined efforts of all Cybertronians, whatever they went with, the ungodly Cybertronians would still defeat the godly Unicron.

    However, this Unicron is heavily influenced by the stories told in the comics, Chaos-Bringer is a new title for Unicron, not something the animated movie or season 3 of MTMTEs ever used. Classic Unicron went from world to world, eating planet after planet in order to continue his journey, wherever that was. Hasbro has made Primus and Unicron the yen and yang of the Transformers universe, similar to the Autobots and the Decepticons, you can’t have one without the other.

    How so? I never said anything about them fighting just for the hell of it or to get stronger or to be the strongest there is, but having the power to destroy a world. Characters in Dragon Ball that destroyed worlds only did so because they couldn’t stand losing.

    The Decepticons gain nothing by blowing up worlds. Destroying towns and ransacking on the other hand provides them with the opportunity to take what they want before moving on. Destroying a world isn’t on Megatron’s mind as he wants to enslave the Universe—he isn’t going to blow up a world just for the hell of it.
    Yes, you could;) 

    I, however, am not speaking of magic, though if you want to refer to the tools Primus gave his children as such, then okay.

    As stated above, Hasbro has made Primus and Unicron a packaged deal. And in all continuities that I’m aware of Primus passed his powers down to his children. Was power the emanating from the Matrix of Leadership the power of Primus or just a powerful ball of light? Was Mirage’s ability to turn invisible science or a special ability (the power of Primus)—not every Cybertronian had a special ability, but some of them did. Judging from what we’ve seen in cartoons, these powers could not be duplicated or rather no one ever attempted to be duplicate them.
    Not necessarily, the story of Cybertron and the Transformers is still being told. We still don’t know about Optimus’ past or anyone else’s for that matter.

    Why would Megatron do that? He enjoys seeing Optimus in pain, be it mental or physical; he revels in it.
    My being in Japan has deprived me of comics. I don’t know the story told in current comics, but I wouldn’t be too surprised if the story in the comic isn’t the same as the one we’re watching now. Different writers, tend to write different stories; we’ve seen this done before. Sometimes even tie-ins don’t …well, tie. Nevertheless, don’t overlook the fact that when I first spoke of destroying a world, I was referring to Megatron being at the planet’s core.
    I’ll answer this question with a slightly changed previous question: would you easily destroy your only means of ever going home, even though you already decided to do so in your mind?
    Well, we’ve seen five Autobots mop the floor when battling a battalion or whatever of Decepticons, haven’t we? Surely, Megatron’s fusion cannon packs more punch than Bublebee’s forearm guns.

    Why does it matter if Bumblebee can defeat Megatron in hand to hand combat or a firefight if they were going to be asked to shoot the same can of a rock? What they can/cannot do to one another has nothing to do with shooting a stationary object.

    Which brings us back to what I said earlier: if using all their firepower reduced the planet to nothing there would be nothing to gain—just about every episode showing the Decepticons, we've seen them taking our resourses. Why would they blow it up? Taking our resources, however, isn’t the only thing on Megatron’s mind—didn’t Prime say Megatron wants to enslave the planet? I think Megatron even said so too while aboard the Nemesis in the last episode.
    He obviously enjoyed beating Arcee. He even knelt down to hear her last words—he wasn’t trying to finish her off quickly, but slowly.
    It’s cool:D