This is not me talking down on Caple JR and ROTB, he's great and delivered with ROTB in my view. But at the same time, I think if Paramount stuck with a lower budget film focusing on Optimus with Bee and perhaps Mirage as the only three Autobots versus a new lineup of Decepticons would be a better idea. Nightbird, Battletrap with Starscream and Thundercracker as the new villains. Noah and Elena as the humans could work in this idea as well.

Even if the movie made the same amount of money as ROTB, if the budget was only 90 million at most, it would have been profitable and a sequel with Megatron and Unicron would have been locked.

 

Unfortunately for Paramount that makes too much sense

 

This is what originally the idea for Bumblebee's sequel would have been and then they tried to chase that Bayverse money again and went big budget, globe trotting, and suffered for trying it instead of doing a simpler film.

Paramount acts like Sony with Spider-Man when it comes to Transformers sometimes.

 

Yup. My stomach dropped when I found out they were looking to nab Josesph Kosinski for a smaller scale project just titled “The Transformers”

We were *this* close to greatness!!

 

Sigh, bringing back memories I still remember seeing that rumor pop up, sad to remember what we maybe could have gotten a simple 5 Autobots vs 5 Cons. Least we have TF One I guess (it better do well or I swear).

 

If it makes you feel better, Lorenzo probably had the same reaction once the numbers from Top Gun: Maverick started to appear.

 

I still like the idea of an Optimus/Bumblebee team-up movie done in the style of a buddy cop movie. Honestly, I feel like most of the early ideas they tossed around were better than what we ended up with.

ROTB wasn't awful, but it feels like they didn't learn a lot of lessons from Bumblebee, despite some of the early post-Bumblebee interviews sounding very promising. I'm curious what went wrong. Especially since it took them friggin' 5 years to put out. Honestly, they should have stuck with one of their early ideas and started work on it in early 2019, and aimed for a 2021 release date. Usually I complain about movies being too rushed and killed by deadlines (like the Star Wars sequel trilogy), but I feel like ROTB might be a case where they sat on it too long and second-guessed their decisions too much.

 

While I like ROTB well enough, yeah it definitely could've been better and shouldn't have tried to be diet Bayverse nor raise the stakes that quickly.

They honestly should've stuck with Travis Knight and done the Optimus and Bumblebee buddy cop film (which would've been so fun, a character drive film centered around Optimus just being a dad and working with Bee to take on some Decepticons and adjusting to earth)

I also wished they let Joseph Kosinski do his Transformers film too. Both these ideas would've been great. Continue on the solid foundation left by the Bumblebee movie, mainly trying to build up and focus the characters and solid stories with strong thematic purpose.

Allowing audiences to actually care about the Cybertronians, learn about them and how their customs/world worked. While also showing them actually interacting with day to day human society and adjusting to their new lives on earth.

 

We should have just had live action Beast Wars. But the world isn’t ready for that yet unfortunately.

 

I think a photorealistic Beast Wars movie would be too expensive with current technology, but they should have done it as an animated movie like TFOne. Maybe make Beast Wars/Beast Machines the next trilogy of movies after they finish the Cybertron story. And just let the Bumblebee follow-up be a little Bumblebee follow-up. Save Unicron for another movie too. That's what kind of frustrating, we could have had the best of both worlds if they'd create a longer-term plan and spread these plotpoints out so each one can get appropriate focus. But they always have to cram all their ideas into one movie.

 

I'm not sure we need an Optimus solo film because he's the main character. A general Transformers movie and an Optimus Prime movie are theoretically the same thing, most of the time. That's like saying they should make a Luke Skywalker solo movie.

ROTB was far from perfect but probably moreso than any of the other movies (until TFO), Optimus very much felt like the main character, or at least a co-lead alongside Noah.

 

This is what I thought the past year. Instead of ROTB, they should've followed the way that Bumblebee followed and should've focused on Optimus with less characters and similar story as Bumblebee.

 

I unfortunately rewatched Transformers (2007) with the Mrs the other day. It made me sad in two ways.

1.) It was dreck. (Really boring and cringe. Gosh I can't believe I loved these...)
2.) We used to be excited about these movies, they were widely talked about, the general audience loved them, it was exciting when a trailer dropped.

We've worked through the dreck, Bumblebee is proof of that. (Apparently, so is TFO.)
We're not working through and fixing the excitement factor. I'm pretty sure it's gone and dead and that saddens me. I remember how we'd all gather 'round these screens and jump on various message boards, newsgroups, and the fledgling Facebook. People were excited to see another Michael Bay schlockfest and buy the toys at the midnight releases, etc.

That's all gone. We see an ad or a trailer, now, and a large number of us are in the following camps: "I'll give it a chance." "Ugh, that looks like shit." "Eh. Maybe. I don't hate it, but I don't love it." and that's not just Transformers, but all movies. It takes something like Deadpool & Wolverine for people to really get excited about going to the movies these days. (Hell, I haven't gone to the drive-in once this year and it saddens me.)

Part of it is theatrical fatigue, some of it's economic issues (the biggest issue, I'd say), but a lot of it is just being let down by the content. We deserve better, the property deserves better, and the people behind the scenes deserve better. I'm hoping TFO really *is* that movie, I really do hope that, but solo films and whatever else might do nothing at this point because we've allowed them to blow it.

The problem is, Paramount wants Michael Bay TF movies (and in their defense, even if you hate the man's work (and I don't blame you), he did get the action and the scale right. If there's one thing going for his movies, it's Bayhem/scale.) but Bay doesn't want to do that anymore. Hell, he returned for Bad Boys 3 and 4 as a cameo, not the director. He's producing now and just sitting there collecting checks. I think even he's had his fill of this stuff.

I think the genie escaped the bottle and there's no getting him back in there. I don't think they can let go of the past to try something new and possibly better. That's always going to be a problem.

 

It's a shame. I actually really liked Optimus Primal in RotB, and that opening scene with Apelinq was awesome, too.

I still maintain that the biggest issue with the current movies isn't the direction they took. The problem is the timing. 2007-2014 was the right time for Transformers to be successful. It was always going to be less popular after a certain amount of time than it was during the first 5-7 years. Rebooting would not have changed that one iota, nor is it a quality issue...TLK and RotF are minimally different in terms of quality as individual movies, if at all, even if I actually have a preference for RotF.

My opinion is that any type of Transformers movie can be successful if the timing and execution are right, although I think that Transformers generally works better as an ensemble film series than a series of "one-robot" films.

The first three Bay movies show that live action movies inspired by the first two G1 seasons can be financially successful.

AoE shows that live action movies inspired by Season 3 or other series like Animated can be financially successful.

Bumblebee shows that a smaller scale movie with a smaller budget can still churn a profit with less box office.

We will see how Transformers: One does in the box office, but I think animated Transformers movies and Beast Wars-inspired films can be successful, too, if the timing is right.

 

Yeah, times are really stale and dead, I honestly don't really know what can be done for that matter.I don't even believe Bay could do something anymore if he wanted to, these are joyless times and we're kinda living out of the remains of nostalgia in many aspects.I don't wanna get too into it but yeah..I hope for a major shift in all aspects of life, we all are tired of everyhing being meh or just fine or "delulu" or "demure"..whatever the hell people in the internet's brain vomits these days

 

Honestly, yeah, it's hard for me to look at ROTB and how it turned out and not think the follow-up to Bumblebee might have been better served by being another smaller-scale story, with a tighter cast, more personal stakes, and time to breathe and explore the characters instead of needing to rush to the next setpiece or action sequence. I think ROTB deserved somewhat better than it got, and maybe an Optimus Solo/buddy film would have bounced off of audiences as well, but I think some of the things Bumblebee did really resonated with tired audiences, myself included.

Your joy is where you find it, in a lot of cases. And I don't just mean in terms of content, but in terms of content, the idea of folks having brands and franchises they could be into from cradle to grave is a fairly new concept. Nostalgia has always been there, but explicitly and concentratedly marketing towards it in the way we see currently with mass media is somewhat new as well. Before, people were constantly picking up new stories, new creators, new characters, new ideas, etc. etc. and maybe we need to become better at that again as an audience.

 

I think it's a big bummer that you find the 2007 movie to be dreck and boring, but it is what it is. I do agree that theatrical fatigue definitely set in terms of the movies themselves, the audiences, and the teams behind them.

I do think there is a chance for TFO to rise up and be what you and many other fans (and audiences in general) are looking for. It stands very apart from the kinds of TF movies we've had before, and I'm hoping people connect with it. So stay tuned!

 

Honestly, this is a really good point. Everyone's on a downturn in some way or another when it comes to joy and excitement. But I posit the pandemic wasn't the entire devil in that situation. Even before the pandemic, certain movies/franchises were starting to feel fatigued. Captain Marvel is one of those movies, in particular. It didn't help that Brie Larson didn't make herself as warm and open as she could've been, but the movie wasn't all it was cracked up to be, either. It had some genuinely funny moments, and she was honestly really, really good in the role. Her performance was excellent, but no one really cared by that point because it was sandwiched in between Infinity War and Endgame and Endgame was all anyone could focus on. (I know, I was one of them.) After Endgame, it was pretty much all downhill from there.

It used to be that you could simply mention a Marvel movie and people would light up. Now, it's only to talk about the exceptional such as GOTG 3 or Deadpool & Wolverine. All others, people speak not of, or try to pretend they don't really exist. (Not to mention the shows... *insert eye roll, here*) Now, the pandemic *did* help contribute to that, no doubt, but I'd argue that most of the world is back to pre-pandemic living and it's not the problem it once was. Finances are, sure, but even people with money just aren't going to the movies.

If anything, the pandemic forced us to reignite our passions in different aspects of our lives, and not this particular one. TV's boring. Movies are boring. Hell, music is starting to get boring. Cars are even boring and it's on purpose. The world is actually getting darker and losing bright colors, on purpose. Houses and vehicles are made in a certain palette of colors and if you want a truly outrageous, beautiful color, you have to pay a lot extra for it. (This was in an article and a separate YouTube documentary. Manufacturing is draining the vibrance out of colors to make their products uniform.)

It's no wonder Transformers movies just don't have that draw anymore. Nothing does.

To be fair, I've had a hate/love/hate relationship with the movies from the get-go, but for a decade, I was a staunch supporter. I just didn't realize how much I've grown to hate them since. I was very shocked to see how disinterested I was in watching the movie. At one point, I was transforming figures, getting ready to paint another, and doing crosswords on my phone. And then realized there was another hour to go. *sigh*

I do hope TFO works out, I really do. It would be nice to have that public excitement we used to have, where people would line up and grab tickets and go sit in a theater for a couple of hours and laugh and cheer and get goosebumps. I do miss those days, I really do.

 

My thought is just set a Beast Wars film in present day (or if you wish to do a crossover down the line, make it a period piece). I enjoyed Ron Perlman’s Primal and Michelle Yeoh’s Airazor, so I’d keep the casting the same. I think building off the four Maximals in the film by adding Rattrap and Dinobot would be a pretty solid line-up. Set the film in South America or Africa with a couple of POC leads and a simple script (think TF07, but written with endearing characters and current sensibilities in mind). I think it could work well. I liked the Maximal designs in ROTB so I’d just build off that visual identity personally.

I think the problem is that companies are afraid to take risks. With the culture war raging online and grifters whipping up review bombing campaigns anytime a fandom is mixed on a new entry in a franchise, I can’t say I blame companies for their hesitation. Nostalgia also sells really well unfortunately. So there is really no incentive to push creativity and introduce new ideas or stories into these franchises anyway. It is a sad time indeed. As someone who craves bold reimaginings and creative risks, it certainly feels pretty hopeless out here sometimes.