See, when I think of the word "whelp", I immediately imagine the word "impudent" in front of it. There's nothing positive about "whelp" - it means you're a callow young punk. Just that single word characterizes so much about Megatron's and Starscream's relationship to me - Megatron doesn't fly into the sort of rage brought about by an unexpected betrayal... he's just, like, "For God's SAKE, kid, aren't you DONE with this yet?" and belts him one. It's like he's not even ANGRY with Starscream's treachery any more, he just expects it and is BORED with it, and just spits out a small, dismissive word to punctuate that.

Well, I suppose I can accept that. I suppose it's the same sort of approach to getting across a character's personality that the G1 cartoon employed.

But, see, with Sunstreaker, it wasn't that he was *cocky* - it's that he was *sociopathic*. They didn't lean on the cocky thing and really bring it out, instead they *limited* his dialogue to these vaguely sinister, clipped phrases that really made you believe this guy was on the edge and just about ready to put his fist through Bumper's head.

Mmn, definitely agreed. IDW's Spotlights are a really good example of how stories with a reduced number of characters are a good idea for the Transformers universe. Although, in terms of reducing the size of the cast, I still believe that Dreamwave's removal of Prime and Megatron from the story for a year was one of the best decisions they made.

 

To be fair to the DW stuff, kinda hard to finish set-ups when the company goes under. I guess for those that favorite the first mini-series, they just like straight forward action stories about Transformers. That first mini was just mindless action with the added shock deaths of Wheeljack and Superion for the simple sake of saying "Hey, we're DW, we have license now, and anyone can die." Those that prefer vols. 2 and 3, enjoyed the depth and set-up that the Mick duo were clearly building, but never got a chance to complete. Yes, they had several unsolved stories lines, but they also had a 30-40 issue run already planned.

 

That's true, but at the same time - much as I enjoyed the Mick duos work - they strung things out to a really silly degree. There was time enough to explore at least SOME of the things they had set up at least a BIT before the company closed, but instead, they always, ALWAYS decided to pour on MORE mysteries instead, which is all the more frustrating when you remember that they were doing this outside of the main series, in Micromasters and even in the MTMTE profile books as well.

(Incidentally, has no-one ever thought to create a Transformers comics sub-forum? Because to relegate all TF comic discussion to the general comics forum, which is specifically under the "NON-Transformers" header is... kiiiinda ******ed.)

 

I liked the second volume of G1 better where Shockwave shows up with Autobots and Decepticons to tell the earthbound bots that the war's over. Course, I think anything where Shockwave takes over Cybertron is awesome. I also liked how they showed Ultra Magnus' armor falling off. Sunstorm was cool at first, but I'm sick of having him crammed down our throats (same with every Magnus after being a white Optimus Prime). I thought they characterized everyone very well, especially Menasor. I think a lot of the questions would have been answered if the series had continued and I think Prime and Megs were set to return in WWIII. They probably could have sooner if they hadn't wasted two issues with starting to cram Sunstorm down our throats again.

IDW. It's hard to follow a story that seems to restart every five minutes. Honestly, just pick a damned title and stick with it. Consistency is victory people! When I picked up All Hail Megatron I was under the impression that it was it's own separate universe from the Infiltration/Escelation/Devastation story arc, but now it seems like it's continuing that and somehow Spotlight and Maximum Dinobots factors into that. I like Spotlight for the fact that you actually get character development and not just the same retold drivel all over again.

 

Not enough traffic for a subforum. I hated the Micromaster mini for the horrible art, so I just disregard it. And I don't really remember the added subplots from MTMTE books. Yes, alot of new information about characters that could eventually lead to some interesting stories, but nothing that required answers then and there.

As far as unresolved storylines, we had:
1. The communication beam from Vector Sigma sent to Unicron awakening him. The same beam that activated Sunstorm. (Obviously just a sign that Unicron was coming).
2. The mysterious pool of Unicorn goo that Sunstorm feel into. (set-up that Earth, Cybertron, and Unicron were all connected).
3. What the humans were doing with the Transformers they captured. (This is a subplot of every TF series nothing new here).
4. The Quintesons and how they fit into all of this. (I have no clue, but I hope they were setting up the Quints as the TF creators like the show).
5. The mysterious Autobot traitor (seemed like Bumblejumper, but we'll never know).

That's pretty much it. Everything else was straight foward and part of the main story line. The Autobots were waiting on Prime to come back online. With the destruction of the Arc, they began to build Autobot City (Metroplex) thus the arrival of the Season 2 bots (later the movie bots). The Depecticons were dealing with the leadership issues because of Starscream. Megatron returns to put his house in order, first Shockwave and then Starscream.

The first three arcs of vol. 3 deal with the immediate fallout of vol. 2. Sunstorm's awakening, Shockwave's planned invasion of Earth, and Megatron's Return. Prime would have returned for the fourth arc. Everything was on-track, except for Pat Lee being a giant douche and running the company into the ground.

 

I really don't get this complaint. We've had one 6-issue arc with Sunstorm ever, and he was crammed down our throats? You realize the entire point of the story was to highlight how powerful a being powered by Primus or Vector Sigma would be, right? That when Unicron eventually came to Earth the situation would be very similiar...a test of faith for many of the Transformers. You might as well say that they crammed The Fallen down our throats because he was the mysterious bot spotlighted in WWI vol. 2.

 

Hey that's cool! I realize I'm probably in the minority with not liking Sunstorm, and I really didn't mind how they introduced the "inner" Magnus. I think what bugged me most was all the White Prime repaints as Ultra Magnus that came after. Selling the white cab alone as Ultra Magnus always left me feeling that the toy was "incomplete". The only reason I bought the Classics version was to get Skywarp, who I ironically have no issue with being a repaing to Starscream because I am a seeker nut. I am gald to have him though now that I have the Trailer from FP.

And being a seeker nut you would think I would like Sunstorm, however I just don't like the colors or the character itself.

 

I was neve rinto the DW comics. The art killed it for me, most of the time.

 

Funny how different we as collectors can be. The art is what I liked most. I stopped reading the IDW stuff after a few issues. Su's art lacks any of the detail that made the DW books so interesting to me.

 

I disagree on the art thing. Half of what you read was quite simply inferior art from Pat Lee (almost any Transformers artist from the Dreamwave days and these days is better) and fan-favourite Don Figueroa has significantly improved as an artist.

Simon Furman is probably the most well-known Transformers writer in any medium amongst fans, because he's probably written the most fiction. He has a style of writing long, serialised space-opera-style storylines that that a long while to finish. Having created Primus and the later concepts of the Thirteen Original Transformers, he's most responsible for the religious themes that are seen throughout the franchise today. He gives characters florid, often fancy dialogue and is infamous for his Furmanisms, which are often-repeated phrases in dialogue.

He hovers over Transformers like some vast, predatory bird.

All Hail Megatron was originally written as an alternate-universe comic. IDW didn't like the way sales of Simon Furman's storyline was going, so they had writer Shane McCarthy modify AHM to become in-continuity, and thus Furman's books/storylines were appropriately canceled and modified where necessary to lead into AHM.

 

I thought the reason that Sunstorm was so powerful wasnt because of the massive compressed Vector Sigma download, but rather the experimental solar generator housed in his frame coupled with the use of Electrum throughout his entire body.

 

Y'see, that's what I liekd about his designs. they were detailed, but they were clean. Sorta liek G1 and Movie combined. DW robots were just inflated G1 bots with a bunch of lines on them.

 

I always took those upgrades as being part of the Vector Sigma download/directive. Before the download, Sunstorm was just a slightly upgraded clone of Starscream the same as all the other clones in Shockwave's lab. It's getting around the time for my yearly rereading of the DW series so I'll have to pay attention to that again.

 

I really enjoyed DW when it was coming out (minus the vol. 1) I was all excited for this iteration of G1 then they said Sarracini was taking over and then the company went under. blegh. I haven't re-read them, but i hear they don't hold up well against time.

IDW I've gone through twice and I loved it... until 'it' happened *cough* AHM *cough*

I've accepted the diguised reboot and recently listened to an interview with shane mccarthy that made me a little optimistic, but its gonna take some things actually happening to pull me into this IDW 2.0-verse.

 

I never had a problem with DW's G1 run. The first volume was like coming back after twenty years, exactly how they had the story presented to us returning fans. The writing could be a little cliched at times, but for the most part it worked. I didn't have a problem with Pat Lee's artwork until I read WWI, and as Past Lee became more hyper-stylized, I saw Don as the one true G1 artist. But like all modern comics, there's always a death for shock-value in almost every "big" storyline. But robots can be repaired.

Volume 2 I enjoyed for the single plot-point of the war being over on Cybertron and a unified faction coming back to Earth to confront the "renegades". Optimus Prime was now on the wrong side of the war. Again, Pat Lee's artwork was alright, compared to what came before. I didn't mind Ultra Magnus' inner body reveal as it seemed fresh. I personally prefer his armored form as his one true form, but there you go...

Volume 3 was by far the best only because I think this is Don's best work. His artwork coupled with a good, clean inker and great coloring really sold the art from #0-10. The story wasn't bad for the first half; I didn't mind Sunstorm at all. In fact, it was nice to have a new character introduced that didn't seem to choke under all the others. I was sad to see it go, considering we were just getting into the meat of the storylines and, seriously, who doesn't like the femme-bots??

War Within volume 1 speaks for itself. Don's breakout work, with amazing pre-Earth designs. And a very good story IMHO.

I have most of IDW's early work in TPBs and I liked it. The story started out slow, playing up the Robots in Disguise aspect, and was building to something big. Too bad it got pulled in too many different directions, especially with the movie coming out. I think the focus was lost and Furman wasn't allowed to follow through with his plotlines thanks to an overbearing company that always has to re-invent the toyline every couple of years. The only problem I have with E.J. Su is his choice to render the Transformers in a style that seems almost too human-centric. They don't look like machines millions of years in advance of our best technology; they're almost as if someone we humans could build within fifty years; bolts, screws, hydraulic lines, etc, etc. Constantly reminded me of Gundam. I hated the mini-series approach; I was hoping they would just start the regular series for Christ's sake. I got out of IDW just before they randomly switched up the universe, which seemed like a kneejerk reaction to everyone's complaint that it was too different.

 

IDW > Marvel > DW

For me at least.

 

The deaths could be looked at it that way. Another way to look at the deaths was to make the wars more emotionally gripping. If no one dies in a war, then the reader basically assumes all that happens is that the robots are immortal. They can be bruised, battered, even dissected apart, only to reappear later. It takes away gravitas to not have the threat of dying. Thats what happened after Volume 1 - no one died except Jetfire (supposedly). Though I have a sneaking suspicion that the writers probably did not kill him off and that he would return later with information gained from his encounter with Sunstorm - much like Gandalf's assumed death falling from the bridge.

I like the first series for its simplicity. Mysteries and loose threads are well and good when not taken to an extreme. IMHO, it was taken to an extreme. Revelation of one Deus Ex Machina is enough to handle at one time. It just got way too hairy. Thats my personal opinion though.

I also really tired of the combiners. You can only take so much of "omg they are the most evilest guys in the whole entire universo, bar none, we are doomed" type of battles. It happened with Devastator, then with Menasor, then with Bruticus, then with Predaking. It really gets tiring seeing that over and over again happen with so much regularity. It was poor writing on their part to take that approach.

Mcfeely, I will respectfully agree to disagree with you on the whelp issue. Impudence is not necessarily a bad thing. Impudence is often the characteristic of many protagonists. It is due to their impudence challenging the evil status quo that some become the hero.

The issue of connotation is a non-defensible issue for me or you. What one word means to me is completely different than what it means to you - but we're both right in this instance. Just take the word b***h. The degree of bad connotation to guys versus girls is surprising.

 

Definitely it is a little of both. But lets face it, the readers weren't newbies but fans. Those were the people buying the issues. We know what to expect from the Transformers concering their immortality and the war. I liked that they didn't have anymore deaths for the short remainder of the series. I'm sure some were forecoming however.

Again, I never saw too many subplots. Certainly not as many as Furman laid out in the IDWverse. Though comics are about Deus Ex Machinas and frankly, that term is thrown about way too easily to explain plot points were may not like.

Personal preference I guess. Fans like combiners and DW was more than happy to throw them at us. I though they served their purposes as plot elements, and personally, I got more than a little giddy seeing Starscream command the Combaticons. Though don't forget Devie and Protector were also featured in WWI vol.2.

However, I comepletely disagree that it was poor writing on their part. Just an element of the story that YOU don't argee with, but not poor writing. The combiners were featured as badass mothers, but they weren't depicked as nigh indestructible either. Prime took down Devastator. Ultra Magnus took down Menasor. Brawn severly damaged Bruticus. The use of the combiners showcased the skill and combat ability of some of the Autobots best fighters. I did like that the IDWverse only had one combiner, but Furman was throwing a new character at us every mini or spotlight each with their subplot. That got to be too much, and it was way more subplots than DW ever gave us.

No real comment here. I need to go back and read the issue, but I highly enjoy all the characterization of the Transformers and thought it was pretty spot-on for the most part. Seems you're really nitpicking about one line of dialogue.

Ultimately, I think you're ignoring that DW ended before those early subplots could ripen. Even your thread title shows this, "Not liking Dreamwave so far." Well, there is much to Dreamwave to begin with...

 

Its not that I don't like Dreamwave. There are a lot of things I like about Dreamwave - the first Volume was my favorite. I also LOVED the visuals and artwork. I thought that was superb. The main reason why I liked Volume 1 was for its simplicity. It didn't try to be a jack of all trades, but instead tried to be a master of a few. Basically simple to me means quality over quantity. Instead of focusing on numerous character's own struggles, it revolved around Prime and Megatron initially. Then it went on to Lazarus and Hallo. The rest were just bit players, as I think they should have been.

This is obviously all personal opinion, of course, I just prefer my stories a different way than you. And thats perfectly acceptable to me. I am glad they did produce something you could enjoy. I did too initially but it died quickly.

When all is said and done tho, I am pleased with DW.  

 

Well you must really hate IDW then lol. And don't get me wrong, I enjoyed DW vol. 1 also. It was a great re-introduction to the comics after such a long break. I highly recommend rereading the series though. There are very subtle little fan moments from the cartoon and comic series, while also offering some great character moments. I like to think of the series as a bridge between Season 1 and Season 2/86 movie. Though it is a mixture of cartoon and comic, the DWverse definitely leans more towards the cartoonverse.
-explanation for the disappearance of Sparkplug.
-the building of Metroplex
-how the Season 2/movie bots come into the picture
-How Unicron becomes aware of the Matrix, thus making him more than Deus Ex Machina.

These are all great moments when placed into the loose context of the cartoon.