Not every movie is going to be an experimental art film

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by DarkEnergon22, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. DarkEnergon22

    DarkEnergon22 Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy finding the odd abstract arthouse film and watching it as much as the next film lover.

    But on the other hand you have to enjoy a movie like Transformers: The Last Knight for what it is instead of what it isn't.

    A lot of people are pretty good at evaluating a movie for what it's aiming to be but there is still a lot of stigma out there against Michael Bay merely because action movies are what he chooses to make.

    I think his films are more of a singular auteur vision than the generic action films that Marvel makes that everybody seems to prefer. Just not my personal taste.
     
  2. electronic456

    electronic456 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
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  3. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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  4. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Did you read my post in your last thread? Is there anything you'd like to say in response to it? Because frankly, this isn't far off from your other threads.

    Oddly enough, I'd say Transformers skews closer to experimental art film than maybe you're envisioning. First off, there's the relationship of an auteur to his 'aut', compared to someone pursuing their film as a purely (or at least a predominantly commercial venture). Unless you're going to say that Bay makes his films with what he thinks audiences will pay to see (or more centrally, what he can be paid to produce and what will enhance his own brand) at the front of his decision making process, then there is definitely going to be an element of artistry in his films. And while there's certainly a case to be made for Bay being a business-oriented director, it would fly in the face of your description of him as having a "singular auteur vision", and I don't really think it's an accurate statement (though Michael Bay IS, by all reasonable accounts I've heard, a highly professional director who delivers what he's been contracted to on time, on budget, and in a way that audiences seem to be willing to support). Michael Bay DOES have a consistent and recognizable artistic style (one that's developed over time, I'd say), love it or leave it, and he puts that art into his work. In the case of the Transformers films, he's actually done a lot of things in his cinematic craft that I would consider experimental in the language of cinema, such as how his human cast interact with their cgi partners, how mechanical constructs look and work onscreen, and most importantly, how his fight sequences are structured. You said yourself that he's a step apart from the blander, generic action films that many seem to prefer.

    Also, because I'm legitimately curious, what were some of the last abstract arthouse films you saw (or better yet, that you liked), I'm always on the lookout for something new.

    The other side of the coin, however, is that Michael Bay's Transformers films ARE hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars-budgeted major studio tentpole action summer blockbusters, and that comparing them to others in that ilk is not unreasonable. It's not unreasonable to compare them to other action films over the years in terms of how they've approached the language of cinema (that The Whole Plate series that keeps getting posted in this forum is a halfway decent example of doing so), and how audiences have responded to it. I completely agree with you that not every action film has to be the same, and if this is what you're into, this is what you're into (some films achieve 'cult' status in that very way, for example), but at the same time, the Transformers films don't necessarily get any sort of a 'pass' that negates their ability to be compared to films like Robocop, Attack the Block, District 9, Terminator 2, The Force Awakens, The Fifth Element, Ghostbusters, etc. etc. etc. Experimentation is good, taking ambitious chances in film is worth applauding, but it doesn't always necessarily work out and in almost all cases, you can break down a film into elements that can be compared and contrasted with others, even the most abstract experimental art films.
     
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  5. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    The problem for the Transformers movies is they are in that sort of eh middle ground. Not so good that they standout from the crowd of action movies and yet not bad enough to be that sort of cult classic you want to watch again and again.

    The series has it's wow moment of seeing a live action transformation for the first time but then like the Jurassic Park movies they don't really know what to do after the wow factor is gone. Jurassic Park thought it was going bigger and bigger dinos while Transformers was we just need bigger action to bring back the magic.

    I'm also not sure if the Marvel comparison is really the best comparison. The stories sure aren't the best in film history. The movies pretty much follow a formula. But unlike Transformers we know more about the Marvel characters so people seem to keep going back to the Marvel movies for more about the characters they are connecting to. We really don't know much about any of the Transformers compared to Captain America or Iron Man. Marvel also gets to mix up the characters so a movie about Iron Man feels different than about Star Lord and his space buddies.

    Outside of the occasional movie like The Raid is it the action that people gravitate towards or is it the characters that make the movie stand out? The 80's were packed with action movies but the ones that get mentioned are films like Robo Cop.
     
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  6. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    Dude, if you need to keep making threads that boil down to absolutely nothing aside from blatant self-justification for liking the films...then there's some ulterior purpose to you trying to convince yourself that you like the films or that they're justifiable in light of overwhelming negative criticism.

    Honestly? I think you're desperately trying to convince yourself that you like the films, but either because you care too much about what other people think or the more likely scenario where you legitimately do not like The Last Failure and are trying to not admit the films perhaps simply aren't what you like anymore, you are trying to invoke this self-defense mechanism.

    You need to come to terms with whatever it is that keeps bothering you. Making threads about the same damn subject is not healthy.

    He made that one, too!
     
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  7. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    I'd settle for just something different; you know you keep imperiling the world and eventually the audience is going to be saying "Just do it, you pussy".

    Just dial down the goddamn stakes.
     
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  8. optimus pryme

    optimus pryme Well-Known Member

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    Oh look, another "it's not supposed to be Citizen Kane, it's a turn-your-brain-off summer popcorn flick, geez!" post.

    Now how many of them have there been since 2007?
     
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  9. DarkEnergon22

    DarkEnergon22 Well-Known Member

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    Hitchhiker's Guide already beat him to it.
     
  10. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    Paraphrasing Ellis from "The Whole Plate."

    - people say it's just a Michael Bay film. It's supposed to be bad. Like, who says that? Do people say that about food? It's supposed to taste bad. Just eat it! Eat your damn food!

    :D 

    Seriously, people aren't expecting a $500 steak covered in edible gold flake (it's real). But we'd like a good $30 steak dinner at least instead of a mountain of cheese puffs & Hi-C juice packs all the time.
     
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  11. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

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    I agree, not every TF movie is going to be an experimental arthouse film.

    But I'm confused: is that what The Last Knight was?

    Apparently not every TF film is going to be an entertaining, crowd-pleasing popcorn movie either.
     
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  12. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    In the books and the BBC series maybe, is that what you mean? I wasn't aware the movie had a sequel.
     
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  13. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Did you ever think that maybe people criticise those movies because they're not very well made as action oriented popcorn flicks?

    They have legitimate issues with editing and flow of their visual storytelling, to begin with.

    And I don't really care about artsy movies myself, most of the time. But I'd like my popcorn flicks not being tiresome to watch.
     
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  14. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan DEFIANTLILHORDE

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    TLK is the most experimental art movie i've ever seen. I don't think it followed a single code and convention of any type of story telling i can think of!

    I pretty sure the editors were experimenting in a variety of ways, such as "splicing wearing a blindfold!"
     
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  15. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    Now I want to see a TF art film in an experimental style.

    But seriously, it looks like the filmmakers have difficulties in deciding what tone to use: a fun enjoyable tone or a dark noir-esque tone. The films look like a weird mix of the two, shuffling between one and the other.