NEWAGE TOYS H-13 Lucifer - Legends scale STARSCREAM (and Seekers?)

Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by TotoyBiboPH, Aug 5, 2019.

  1. nacho

    nacho Well-Known Member

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    I'm an engineer, so I understand the realities of design and production. But ultimately, you're missing the point. It's not my job to determine what they should cost. As a consumer, it's my job to look at these and ask, "Are these worth the asking price? Am I willing to shell out $60+ for a 3-pack of bots that are <6cm? Are these clever enough, desirable enough, or different enough from what we've gotten before to command the asking price? Are these better than other products I could spend those dollars on?"

    The answer for some might be "yes", but I'm simply coming to the realization that for me, the answer is "no thanks". I cancelled the NA bugs, Ratchet, and Ironhide. I'm not disparaging the designs or the people that like them, just concluding that they're not worth it to me. But let's be clear, it has nothing to do with what you or I think they should cost. In a free market, *should* is an irrelevant number. It's all about the trade-offs.
     
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  2. NOCV

    NOCV Cretin of Kaon

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    $55 & Free Shipping

    Completely agree with you, but just wanted to be clear on price.
     
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  3. IronMagnus

    IronMagnus Well-Known Member

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    And you get energon cubes!
     
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  4. Pessimus Prime

    Pessimus Prime Slackerbot Commander

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    People are in here complaining about $55.00 for three legends-scale Insecticons, but I don't recall anyone freaking out about OM charging $130 bucks for Frenzy and Rumble, which seems like a way bigger rip off. Of course, I say that as one of those people who only wants the red & black one - you know, RUMBLE - so obviously I'm deranged.
     
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  5. Snaku

    Snaku Well-Known Member

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    Nah, just colorblind. Mixing up blue and purple with red and black.
     
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  6. nacho

    nacho Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, because two 5" masterpiece-caliber figures are exactly the same as postage-stamp-sized legends... That's a pretty weak point of comparison. Surely you can do better.

    But to be fair, I merely determined the value proposition they offer just doesn't work for me. There has been neither complaining nor "freaking out". Quite the opposite, as NA owes me nothing. If they can get people to pay it, more power to them. But thanks to the photos in here, I simply came to the conclusion that it won't be me.
     
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  7. Cha Chi

    Cha Chi Minimondomayhem

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    I could pay that price for these guys. I might still but object to the interpretation of the characters being so insubstantial.

    It really is each to their own. My own personal break down of the price of these is they are a touch on the high side. They could go around 45 and be much more agreeable. In legends scale price is important and i find NA for the most part is great on price if you shop they are really competing with anyone. Their products are excellent to boot. That as a customer is keeping me happy. If you really break down the insecticon set, the tooling is not great because molded 3 colours at most. Engineering is not super duper but they are small pieces. I wont claim to be an expert, not really objecting to their price but do think it is a touch on the high side.

    I have my own personal objections... other than that i think NA went for impressing in with how small these are and i am not sure that is enough of selling point, that is winning over people, nobody said oh i buying these because of how accurate size wise they are and how much amazing engineering they have. They are impressive just that is not selling point. Correct me if i am wrong.

    Flipper was impressive, carbots but maybe not these in the same way.

    As someone buying 3p legends a longtime, i justify the price where others dont. I dont want to be taken for a crazy ride at the same time i want the effort put on rewarded. Legends scale should get its taking from sales made. You can sell a lot of good legends.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
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  8. nhyone

    nhyone Well-Known Member

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    Some things never change.
     
  9. Meekutron

    Meekutron Well-Known Member

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    Dx9 Ironhide with NA Ratchet. So we can assume that NA Starscream height may be close to DX9 Starscream. Photo by chuckclothier 9F00613E-13AB-4152-90E4-BD786DA2E2BF.jpeg
     
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  10. OriginalFire

    OriginalFire Well-Known Member

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    Which one of you guys has any evidence to support your claims? I'm just curious. I also read that DX9 is now New Age but I never saw any evidence. I've done this in the past and people have provided the required evidence.
     
  11. edgecrusher

    edgecrusher Pepperidge Farm remembers TFW2005 Supporter

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    It's pretty straightforward to provide the evidence for, "There's a reason they use the same factory, packaging type, and instruction manual design." It's in everyone's hands that has purchased a Newage figure. So I'll assume you're asking for evidence that Newage is DX9. There's a reason I never stated that explicitly during the back and forth with NOCV, because the two entities are not one and the same, though they have relations. If they want details made public, they will provide it. They haven't. They've actually created an implied distance between the two brands. So I won't be stating "evidence" for the same reason I don't go around giving out personal information on the members or principles of any other 3P companies that aren't already public information. For one, it's not my place to do so, particularly when they're making it apparent they prefer to give the opposite impression. For another, it's likely rule-breaking to give out personal information even about companies/persons that aren't members here. If you really want to get to know more about the 3P companies, you'll have to be resourceful and make it happen for yourself. I'm also perfectly content for you to disbelieve me. I'm just another poster on an internet forum, after all. :) 
     
  12. Avon

    Avon Well-Known Member

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    NA starscream? Whoa whoa whoa, let’s not get off-topic
     
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  13. Meekutron

    Meekutron Well-Known Member

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    Oh my bad. I think I'll make a new thread:rolleyes: 
     
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  14. Snaku

    Snaku Well-Known Member

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    I mean NOCV posted a screencap of someone at Newage not only saying they're not dx9 but even going so far as to say there's no relation. As far as I know, that's the only real evidence that anybody has and you already have it: it was in one of the posts you quoted. All the data that suggests they are the same could have other explanations (they're imitating dx9, their person in charge of box and manual design used to work at dx9, they use the same factory, they use the same photographer, the fonts are readily available and are used because they resemble the old g1 fonts, any number of possible explanations), while there are only two explanations to refute the actual evidence and that is that either NOCV faked it (unlikely since he's a stand-up guy and I'm pretty sure he's smart enough to know it'd be exposed) or Newage is straight up lying. I guess you can decide which is more likely but I suppose I must be pretty trusting because I tend to take them at their word rather than jumping to a conclusion just because it looks like there might be something there. Personally, I was always skeptical of the suspected link even before they denied it for one reason: Newage stuff is night and day better than anything dx9 did with their War in Pocket line.

    That is admirable but by even implying that you have this privileged information, aren't you betraying it? You're suggesting that you won't provide it because it's not your place to do so because they're trying to give the impression of there being no link but you're using that very statement to imply that there is one.

    As I said, I don't like to leap to the conclusion that a person is lying and I'm not going to ask you to betray your principles for the sake of convincing me, particularly since you vehemently deny that you care whether people believe you during your repeated attempts to get people to believe you, so I choose to believe that you are not lying and that you genuinely believe you have some irrefutable proof that you can't share. But, given the choice between this ethereal "proof" and the "proof" that is the company actually giving a statement, I have to believe the proof I can see.
     
  15. edgecrusher

    edgecrusher Pepperidge Farm remembers TFW2005 Supporter

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    There was no "attempt to get people to believe me" during that interaction yesterday. In fact, literally the opposite. The only thing I "repeatedly" did was to try to correct your erroneous accusation that you doubled down on regarding this very topic when you entered the conversation by accusing me of something I hadn't been doing. And you're still pushing the same mischaracterization, so apparently my rebuttal was to no avail. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I ignored your final reply on the issue last night because it became clear you were just looking to argue, having managed to convince yourself of a strawman in that regard.

    Once we wipe away the noise, what is revealed is a consistent position by one poster that they will not be providing proof and do not care whether you believe them or not, and you repeatedly trying to claim they do care, perhaps as a way to try to figuratively twist their arm into providing proof, insinuating that they ought to do so now because- because why? -Oh because, you told them that they really do care and therefore should provide proof because you say so and otherwise you're gonna have to believe they're lying :eek:  and gosh that would just be a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad thing. Now, you don't want to come to that conclusion, no sir, (though from your post it seems you have already made up your mind), but you will have to if no proof is provided. So gee willikers, mister edgecrusher, you've just gotta provide that proof! Ya just gotta! etc etc. Enough with the pedestrian mind games, dude. I already told you -- I don't care whether you believe me. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :) 
     
  16. NOCV

    NOCV Cretin of Kaon

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    It's right in the first comment thread.
     
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  17. Snaku

    Snaku Well-Known Member

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    You misunderstand. I said that I didn't expect you to leak whatever information you have and I meant it. If it seemed like I was trying to "twist your arm" as you say, that is not what I was going for and I sincerely apologise for giving that impression. My point was merely that you can't use it's existence to strengthen your case since it can't be shared. You may be in the know but for the purposes of this discussion, it just doesn't matter. We, meaning everybody here who is not you, have to go off of what has been provided. Rather than goading you should share it, my opinion, for whatever it's worth, is that you shouldn't have brought it up at all - you say you're not sharing it because na have tried to give the impression that they're not dx9 but if you really felt that strongly about it, you wouldn't have brought it up at all.

    Perhaps the rest of our disagreement comes from misunderstanding as well. You say you don't care if people believe you but I've gotten a serious "the lady doth protest too much" vibe from your posts. But maybe that's just how it reads to me (and I'll be honest - it really really does). I mean you keep arguing it and then saying "don't care if you believe" but then you keep coming back for another round. Well which is it? Because it sure seems like you care or you wouldn't keep coming back for more. You're really telling me that you can't see that and I'm strawmanning you? Just feels like you've taken my argument and misrepresented it - there should be a word for that.

    Right. Like I said, I was certain you weren't faking but I felt like I had to mention it. So that means the only possibilities are that NA =\= DX9 or NA is lying.
     
  18. edgecrusher

    edgecrusher Pepperidge Farm remembers TFW2005 Supporter

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    It's neither, because none of what we've been arguing has to do with actually proving whether or not the two companies have a relationship.
    I care about you misrepresenting what I said and accusing me of something that didn't happen. I don't care about proving the thing about the companies. You're mistaking my replies and interaction related to the former, for the latter. :) 
    This bit is based on that misunderstanding:
    You will probably feel that way until you realize none of my interactions with you have been about the thing I said I don't care about. They've been about a thing I do care about, which was the erroneous accusation. Feel welcome to take this to PM if you are still confused. This entire back and forth might have been better as PM. Hopefully the entire strand going back to your accusation will be removed in a thread cleanup at some point.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  19. MaxXeon

    MaxXeon Well-Known Member

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    20190810095008.jpg 20190810095015.jpg 20190810095000.jpg 20190810095043.jpg
     
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  20. NOCV

    NOCV Cretin of Kaon

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