New Series of Transformers needed.

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by zero1, Jun 7, 2009.

  1. Superion33

    Superion33 Banned

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    Dude, why in the world am I forbidden from saying that I would like the visual style of GI Joe Resolute? Just because you had an idea in your head of similar styles does not mean that I think the same. I might not have seen the same shows as you. It was THE most recent thing that was at the front of my mind, so I used that as an example. Don't you think you're taking it a little too far?

    All I was saying is that I liked the visual style of GI Joe Resolute. That didn't mean I wanted a nuclear holocaust like in that show. You can take good ideas and leave the bad. Also, what if to me, little kids is a less mature series than if it focused on adults? Adults want to see other adults in adult situations. It would be like arguing that people who like Friends would think Saved By the Bell as mature. Anyways, I respect that you might, but I don't.

    You just seem to me to be putting down all other ideas if they are different from yours or not blessed by Hasbro. I don't have the same paradigms as you. I think things could work even if they ARE NOT blessed by Hasbro. Hasbro is not a omniscient, omnipotent being all the time.

    Eitherways, lets just stop. And let this thread continue. I really am interested in seeing other people's ideas on what they want in the next series.
     
  2. eisen

    eisen "CUT ME SOME SLACKS!"

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    here's what i think:

    Hasbro: hey we need a great writer to make a cool new TF series that has a compelling storyline and memorable character development! let's make a few calls! wait, what's our target demographic again?

    Intern: kids?

    Hasbro: oh yeah, right! we don't have to work really hard storywise then! just make a call to the guys in japan to make a new anime based off the movie or something. kids still go for anime-ish characters, right?
     
  3. zero1

    zero1 Emperor of Destruction

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    Thanks for all the replys so far. I used Gundam as a strong reference to show its popularity. I'm hoping that Transformers popularity will pick up soon with possible future series like Gundam is right now.

    What flamepanther says is very true. Also the theme song is reused over and over again. Is basically the catchphrase repeated. Hopefully, things are different after ROTF.
     
  4. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Wow... that's a pretty ignorant statement, dude.

    Anime is like any other genre. Some of it's commercial crap, some of it's brilliant. It's a HUGE umbrella genre, and in general, has a much higher level of sophistication inherent in the production/direction compared to much of mainstream "western" animation. Granted a big part of that is simply that so damn much of it is produced, and is marketed to all age groups and demographics, be they children, teens, perverts, or serious sci-fi buffs. Animation in North America is still largely ghettoized in the 5-10 age demographic... either that or it's really crudely executed sophomoric comedy stuff a la Adult Swim. Still a lot of room for growth for animation on this side... :) 

    You again!

    Still grinding that ol' "GIJOE RESOLUTE" axe, are ya?

    First, just to point out/remind you... GIJOE RESOLUTE may have had some issues that bothered me, but your assertion that it was "violent for violence's sake" is just as ill-informed as it was when I stomped that fallacy into the ground a month or so back...

    GIJOE is, and always has been, a "realistic military" themed series, with lots of authentic hardware, an elite special forces team, and a subversive terrorist organization. To argue that high stakes and having people actually get shot and killed is somehow inappropriate to the material is just stupid.

    As someone who collected GIJOES back in the day, and who followed the Marvel GIJOE series written by the creator of the fiction, Larry Hama, your insistence on dissing RESOLUTE along those lines is simply absurd. The violence is inherent in the material... it's not robot wars like Transformers... it's not Strawberry Shortcake or Spongebob... it's GIJOE. It's soldier action, and people get killed, just like they did in James Bond movies, in Star Wars, in cowboy movies and the pulp adventure stories that came before them... hell, even the '86 Transformers Movie!

    If you actually had any legitimate criticisms of RESOLUTE, maybe I might even agree with them... it was far from perfect. However it did offer one potential model for a slightly less "kiddie" take on a toy franchise, with a serious-minded tone, serial storytelling, and a pretty nice animation style overall.

    Now go read some vintage 80's GIJOE comics, and get yourself informed! :D 

    zmog
     
  5. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    ...except in as much as it is not actually a genre.
     
  6. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    Exactly... that stuff belongs in GiJoe and not brought over to transformers. There has been a serious decline in the appeal for kids to play with WAR toys based on realistic violence which is why the Demographic for Gijoe *NOW* is much different than transformers. Different Franchises and things that work for GIJOE do not translate to transformers.
    I understand Cobra Commander is a terrorist and that killing millions of people makes sense for a terrorist. I also understand that 'killing' terrorists is probably the most realistic solution for solving those problems. Putting Cobra minions face down is part of the story. I felt like they killed core franchise characters simply because it was a closed series and they could add to the cool facor by bumping people off. Zartan could have slinked off, Not sure the ninjas have to have a fatal standoff in EVERY comic miniseries or show and Bazooka was unneeded.

    It wasn't a terrible story, but wasn't especially great and was kinda like watching a military CSI episode. I could see how someone who was a real Joe fan would like the way the characters were represented as I think one of the things that series did was be *EXTREMELY FAITHFUL* to the design and portrayal of the 80's characters which I am sure made lots of fans happy.

    I just didn't see very much that I wanted to see translated to a TF series.
     
  7. kidnicky

    kidnicky Well-Known Member

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    People liked the blobby characters because they looked like "designer vinyl" toys.

    How violent was Resolute? Now,I saw it in April,so this is off the top of my head-
    Bazooka dies offscreen.
    Major Blood dies offscreen.
    a bomb explodes,and we're told a lot of people died because of it,but nothing is shown.
    Storm Shadow dies from a bloodless,fake karate move.
    Zartan gets shot.
    Duke and Scarlett get shot at a million times point blank and Duke just gets winged.
    Cobra Commander kills henchmen offscreen.
    Cobra Commander dies (OR DOES HE?!) offscreen.

    Whoa! Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!
    Come on,if this was a movie,it would be PG-13.
     
  8. Sizzle

    Sizzle Sparkabot

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    Dude, nobody is FORBIDDING you from saying anything. I get SO tired of seeing that tired old gem trotted out EVERY SINGLE TIME someone gets butthurt.

    The fact that your post remains visible should indicate to you that nobody is censoring your ideas.

    Once and for all, could you and your crowd PLEASE stop saying that just because someone poses a thought that differs from yours that they are repressing your ideas and forbidding you from having a thought.

    GROW UP.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2009
  9. eisen

    eisen "CUT ME SOME SLACKS!"

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    but they're incapable of loving anything beyond 1985 :p 
     
  10. Sizzle

    Sizzle Sparkabot

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    Okay, what I just posted may have been slightly harsh, but I do believe in the idea behind it.

    Anyway...

    I'm not exactly with nkelsch on this one. I wouldn't mind seeing a Resolute type adaptation. (We've already sort of had it in the comics anyway.)

    However, I'm REALLY hoping that the new series will be something completely new, and that means G1-free. I want to see the stories and universe expanded. I don't even want an Optimus or Megatron. I want it to be fun and challenging.
     
  11. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    Go watch Pan's Labyrinth and tell me whether it is mature. It's one of the few good 'R' movies I've seen in recent years, yet the main character is a little girl who does little girl things. Was "Aliens" any less mature for having Newt in it? The Sixth Sense because of Cole? On the more relevant subject of action cartoons shown on American television, Avatar was handled in a more mature manner than most, even though the majority of important characters were children and teenagers. Paradigm = smashed. The maturity of a story has very little to do with the age of the characters, or how "dark" the story is. It's about the depth of the characters, and the willingness of the writers to challenge their audience.

    None of that matters though, because until toy sales trends change drastically, every TF cartoon is going to be targeted almost exclusively at boys who are too young to have all their time and money taken up by girls, and who still have enough imagination that playing with toys is not yet less exciting than playing video games. Since nobody seems to give kids that age much credit for being intelligent or capable of understanding deep story development, it doesn't much matter how "mature" the show is, let alone what age group the adult viewers want to see doing what type of thing.
     
  12. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Yes, you are quite correct... I second guessed my choice of words, but was too lazy to come up with a better term. :D 

    Anime does have it's own distinct conventions and traits, so in a loose sense, it does reflect a broad "genre"... as I pointed out, it's an umbrella for a fairly diverse body of animation work with a range of subjects and tones, though I have heard even anime creators themselves refer to their works being sometimes "less anime" because the art is drawn differently, etc... So even in Japan, there is a perception of "anime" representing something different, more qualitative, than simply "animation made in Japan".

    I do agree somewhat with that. Currently, with war as a very real aspect of many peoples' lives, I understand that military themed toys and media are out of vogue... though it's temporary at best. In the 60's during the Vietnam War, GIJOE became an "adventurer", downplaying his military roots. By the 80's, war toys were back on the menu though... with GIJOE leading the pack. And now, this year's GIJOE movie has elected for more of a sci-fi "007 meets Power Rangers" vibe to distance itself from the specter of war.

    War, fighting and death will never get too far from children's toys, I suspect. Even now, if you walk down a toy aisle, you'll see armoured knights, toy tanks, Nerf gatling guns, building toys bristling with guns, Star Wars figures and vehicles... and Transformers.

    It's pretty absurd to pretend that Transformers isn't about war, fighting, and ultimately, the threat of death. It's all about a never-ending war between rival factions that wield and transform into a dazzling array of tanks, guns, bombers, swords, missiles, etc...

    I realize that we don't need excessive, meaningless death in children's entertainment, but let's not pretend that the violence hasn't always been there to some degree. We're not protecting them from anything... they know too, whether they consume violent cartoons or video games or not. Is it any more responsible to promote the idea that you can go to war with guns, bombs and swords, and nobody will get seriously hurt?

    I agree on that point. Bazooka's offscreen death didn't bother me, because it was an effective way to establish right from the beginning that the stakes have changed (what? ninjas kill people?? I had no idea!)... plus he's always been one of those more "disposable" Joes... just another member of the ol' mustache brigade.

    I liked the "mysterious" death of Major Bludd... or rather I would have if it had actually led to an interesting plot point, or had become a key to a real ongoing conspiracy (which it wasn't... his death was due to some unknown "treachery" that was pretty much a non-issue). In that sense, the "CSI" comparison is apt, and not really a bad thing... especially in the way it depicts a team of specialists working in concert to solve a problem.

    But beyond that, most of the character deaths seemed really abrupt, contrived and meaningless (Zartan more than most). I was also dismayed to see that Ellis had robbed Storm Shadow of any of his moral ambiguity. So yeah, I don't think "violence" was the problem so much as awkward use of character death.

    Well, since the characters pretty much ARE the experience of GIJOE, getting them right is a big part of the appeal. But yeah... still lacking something.

    Yeah... not really very violent at all. If it had really been sensationalist, there would have been a lot more onscreen death, a lot more spurting blood and bad language. Maybe some hostage deaths. But I'm sure there were extremes Hasbro was not willing to sign off on... thankfully, I think.

    I think if I wanted to see an ongoing GIJOE story, I'd want something close in tone to the old Hama stuff. Serious action-adventure stories, with death and consequences, but without stepping off into self-consciously "adult" territory. So yeah... I think sticking as close as possible to the originals is the way to go.

    The difference between Transformers and GIJOE though, is that Transformers NEVER really had good writing back in the day. Budiansky's characters were a great starting point, but the comics and cartoons were never that good. So rather than looking strictly to the past, I think I'd like to see a TF series that blazes some new turf... with a more serious, realistic tone, smarter stories, and harder hitting action. That's what I wished for when I was 10 years old, and I'm still wishing for it (though the IDW comics are delivering somewhat on that front).

    zmog
     
  13. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Lets start with G1:
    G1 was far from a Wild West shootout; just because censors were in place to prohibit any actual deaths to occur doesn't mean thatit was any less warlike. Or have you forgotten the death count in Transformers The Movie?

    Beast Wars?
    Dude, Dinobot died after kicking the asses of the Predacons, Megatron set up Primal to be blown up into a million pieces, Ravage was blown up, Optimus Prime got his head split open, Tigerhawk bit the big one and Depthcharge and Rampage took each other out.

    None of that happened outside of violence or conflict- or combat mind you.

    Armada- not that I watched it much, but the orange Autobot crane was shot and killed my Megatron holding some mini-con gun.

    Movieverse?

    Sorry- it's a civil war between Autobots and Decepticons. Wartime doesn't always look like trench shootouts from WW1 or 2; a lot of times, a war is played out as simple skirmishes.
     
  14. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Yeah... yeah it was. You were unnecessarily abrasive and way out of line.

    The only thing more obnoxious than an ignorant, inflexible G1 cartoon fanatic, are "anti-GeeWun" evangelists who feel entitled to smacktalk oldschool fans with that condescending "Shut up or grow up!" attitude... as if that's even mildly appropriate on a forum dedicated to an 80's toy fandom.

    While I don't think anyone's going to argue with "fun and challenging", I don't think "G1 free" is necessarily the way to go. No matter how you slice it, G1 is the essential, original core of Transformers, and if you step too far away from the source material, it kind of defeats the purpose of making a new "Transformers" series. I'm fine with focusing on a new cast of characters, tackling new ideas, but there are some aspects that should be observed.

    I'd rather see new stories that can build on the old continuity and history, than an umpteenth "fresh alternate take" on the same old thing like we've been getting... which usually lasts a season or two, and then disappears.

    zmog
     
  15. eisen

    eisen "CUT ME SOME SLACKS!"

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    and so we go back full circle: gundam's been doing it for years and it's still going strong.
     
  16. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    While I can appreciate where you're coming from here, there has to be at least a *little* G1 in it, or everyone would be asking what the hell it has to do with TransFormers--and rightly so. It's not like the idea of transforming robots--even sentient living ones--is unique to the brand. Fun, challenging, and different, I think, would all be refreshing qualities nonetheless.

    This is true--yet at the same time, the Japanese will refer to Disney cartoons as "anime", and every person's subjective definition of what qualities make something anime-like will be different. The only objective definitions are that it is anything animated (the objective definition as used in Japan), or anything animated that was produced in Japan (the objective definition as used pretty much everywhere outside of Japan).
    You and I, and a lot of other fans, will probably wish for that for a VERY long time. The marketing gurus, writers, and concerned parents, in all of their infinite wisdom, refuse to understand that children might want or would even be able to handle that. They especially don't care what older viewers might get from it.

    What you're asking for is also what first Super-Link, and then Galaxy Force both initially tricked me into thinking we were getting. I was especially hopeful for those two, since Japan is usually a lot more willing to go that direction with its shows for children. They both started with so much potential for great stories, too. Unfortunately, I guess it was still clear in the staff's minds that they were making a show that needed to be shown to kids in America as well, and that it was basically going to be used as a toy commercial anyway.

    I think if you were to take the best elements of Beast Wars and Galaxy Force and put them together, then kick the action up just a notch, that would be my ideal new TF show. Unfortunately, the odds of that happening are akin to those of winning two lotteries, getting hit by lightning twice (in one place) and surviving, and bringing peace to the Middle East--all at the same time.
     
  17. Sizzle

    Sizzle Sparkabot

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    Fair enough, and I'd be okay with that too, perhaps.

    I guess I'm missing the days of Masterforce, Victory and the like where the story actually moved on beyond and didn't include G1 cast members or namesakes. I thought those two years were brilliant, and I wonder if that can't be recaptured in an American series, or do we always have to couch the stories in familiar conceits and names?
     
  18. DrillBIT

    DrillBIT Silver Wolf

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    battle between multiple legions
    killing off major transformers every other week
    friends turn into foes for both human and transformers
    doomed future
    Optimus vs Megatron at the end, where both got killed before the end credit start rolling...
    hope left for the new generations at the very end
    no continuation

    there u have a show that might be interesting enough to watch
     
  19. eisen

    eisen "CUT ME SOME SLACKS!"

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    in the nineties.
     
  20. qwerty

    qwerty Well-Known Member

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    how about a War Within series in 3-D CGI... that way we get to see Cybertron as the Main Battleground and see the Fallen...