New Series of Transformers needed.

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by zero1, Jun 7, 2009.

  1. binglesbot

    binglesbot Well-Known Member

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    I just hope Hasbro doesn't go with Resolute on the next TF series. Having more violence makes as much sense as having more sex to promote a children's toy franchise.
     
  2. Primus00

    Primus00 Creator

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    I agree. Sex isn't needed at all. Just as long as Transformers has enough action like a popular anime.
     
  3. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Whaaa....?

    Transformers is about a war between the A's and the D's, is it not? last time I checked, violence is a part of war.

    Or would you want a violence free war? Not very action packed IMO.
     
  4. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    We have had multiple series that barley qualify as war. Decepticons have been more like 'criminals' working in back alleys while the autobots are the government and the police.

    Even G1 was barley a war... it was a wild west shoot-out where Megatron would try to jump a claim and Prime and his posse would ride in and clean up the place.

    Most of the 'war' has been flashbacks to before the actual series. Even beast 'wars' wasn't really a war.
     
  5. Superion33

    Superion33 Banned

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    You're right, but the poster above is saying that cowboy shoot-outs weren't violent. And Beast Wars wasn't really a war but more like battles or skirmishes, and even the newborn babe knows that battles and skirmishes aren't violent...
     
  6. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    There is a huge difference between the battles show in TF series and actual war.

    Especially since most of the weapons used by TFs are non-lethal. They are always trying to 'run off' the decepticons or 'subdue' them. In war, they are trying to flat out kill them until they are dead. Which simply has never happened in any of the TF series. Almost all of the series refer to the 'great war' as something that happend long ago and was horrible for the few who experienced it.

    So instituting a true 'war-like' plot into a transformers series really doesn't seem smart or needed. But please pretend that G1 episodes where Ratchet karate Kicks a seeker, and Rhinox farting death gas as a weapon are exactly and equally as violent as true 'war' like saving private Ryan or something like that. It makes your position that the new series should be 'mature' but you don't want Buckets of Blood really stand up strong.
     
  7. binglesbot

    binglesbot Well-Known Member

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    Well no I meant it's not necessary to have the level of violence in gritty Resolute to tell a war story. If any series should cater for the 'adult' market then it should be in the realms of the movieverse and not any future mainstream cartoon.
     
  8. Superion33

    Superion33 Banned

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    You are arguing against a position which I am not taking. I have not compared this issue to any previous series. I did not say one series does it better or worse.

    Your statement is only a tiny bit true - the Decepticons ARE trying to kill the autobots. And Prime using his axe or Prowl using his shuriken are two examples of weapons designed to maim/kill. Even Animated had Prowl, Blurr, and Starscream literally die and Ultra Magnus was completely maimed yet I would not consider the series overall as mature when compared with Batman: TAS.

    I think your hang up is with the word "violent" or "mature". And its still sad that you bring up the buckets of blood thing when neither I nor the vast majority of people wanting a Resolute type series have called for such a thing. I won't get all technical and pull up Webster's because to each of us violence or mature means a different thing. To me, Batman:TAS was a mature series. It also had violence. While people were neither killed nor maimed, there was the use of aggression or the intended use of deadly force. Done in that manner, the gravity of the situation is still there, sans the gore/death. Heck, even Mikaela literally burning Wheelie's eye with a blowtorch is downright sadistic! Yet kids will still see it.

    Either ways, its not the level of conflict/aggression that matters to me. Its the mature story themes - ie along the lines of Batman: TAS. I don't see how else I could show you that I and others do not want "buckets of blood" but simply smart, mature story lines. Batman: TAS was able do that yet still appeal to kids. It shows it can be done.
     
  9. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    Prime's axe is a TOOL used by firemen to break down doors. Prime hardly used his axe as an actual weapon, mostly as a tool to subdue or facilitate his actions. I can't remember a single scene where he used his axe to chop up an enemy combatant. Also, Prowls shuriken are not comparable to Human shuriken as prowls are clearly non-lethal to transformers while a Human's shuriken are lethal to humans. Most of the TFs are running around with basically nerf guns. A Human shooting a lethal bullet into a human is much more violent than a Robot shooting a ray beam into a robot that does little to no damage or only incapacitates them. In all the series, the only person who actually has a LETHAL weapon has always been Megatron. None of the other TFs have anywhere close to a lethal weapon or even know how to use them to actually kill another TF. That is the difference. Lethal force is not a core component of most of the TF series, but is a component of War and Resolute.
    Batman did a really good job skating away from lethal force when it comes to kids. no one ever got shot, no one ever died onscreen and most death or deadly peril was implied. In the Superman series where Superman is bulletproof, they shoot the crap out of him and perform a lot more lethal attempts and it is allowed because it doesn't actually hurt him.

    Shooting batman in the face with a gun = Murder and not allowed
    Shooting Superman in the face with a gun = Comic Action because the viewing public knows he will survive.

    TFs shooting each other with nerf weapons or using weapons as tools isn't the same as humans shooting realistic weapons at each other and causing people to actually die. This is the difference between Resolute and batman. They actually could have taken the exact same plot and sanitised it but instead they decided to graphically kill dozens of people and exterminate 10,000,000 humans. That level of Violence is un-needed nin *ANY* TF series mature or not.

    But if they were to do something closer to Batman:TAS It would not include WAR stories that are anything comparable to what equates to HUMAN war as we have seen over the past hundred years and would not include anywhere close to the deathtoll or lethal force of Resolute which basically makes it pretty absurd to say "we want a Mature series like Resolute but it doesn't need to be violent like resolute but be just as mature like resolute!"

    If all you claim you want is a mature series, not a violent one, Why not say it needs to be Mature like batman:TAS and stop any and all references to Resolute as that was a series that should never have a transformers counterpart?
     
  10. Overlord II

    Overlord II Starscreamicon Leader TFW2005 Supporter

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    American produced animation of Peteynorth's Transformers 2.0 using the Classic series design


    :D 
     
  11. Superion33

    Superion33 Banned

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    Good god man, you are blind. I could pull up countless times I've said that in numerous other threads. I've even gone to the point where I've said "mature = no Kicker" to you. Not once, but TWICE! This is the third time I am doing it! Seriously, do you even read people's posts?

    Why in the world do I have to stop referring to Resolute? Its your hangup that prevents you from being able to have Resolute in the conversation. If you would even read my previous posts, I said I liked the VISUAL STYLE of Resolute. Its really sad, you won't even allow portions of good ideas from other series to be incorporated into any new idea. You don't like Resolute. We get it. But plenty of people do. It IS simply your opinion that Resolute won't work. But it has. And it could again.
     
  12. Megatronwp38

    Megatronwp38 Nobody defeats the DEVASTATOR!

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    I second that. A/E/C was horrible. I was just able to watch the series through on DVD once. Never again. Beast Wars I can watch all the time.
     
  13. microclone

    microclone Well-Known Member

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    ultimately im a toy fan over cartoons but it would be cool to have a new series that perhaps used some of the vintage ideas updated. imagine 3-4 main groups of characters which would translate into groups of toys with a 'sub gimmick' each, but a gimmick that actually made for interesting toys.

    ideas for the subgroups: 'twinformers' ie a new take on the clones but with autobot/decepticon very different bot modes from the same alt mode, you could have vehicle modes, beast modes, etc. Triple changers another idea new take on the headmasters could be interesting though perhaps a bit limited.

    I suppose this stems from me feeling that the current crops of TF's being a bit unimaginitive, sure theres some incredible toys but the novelty and ingenuity of those g1 subgroups is what kept the line interesting, it was often a bit more than just a alt/robo mode. the energon trilogy tried the gimmicks but aside from the superlink (which i feel was a decent try at something more playable) but they never seemed to really catch on with fandom at least, the cyber keys, well just how lame were those?
     
  14. Chaos Prime

    Chaos Prime Combaticon

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    I'd personally be happy with a continuation of TF Animated. But first we'll have to bare with ROFL for a little while and hope it passes quickly.
     
  15. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

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    [​IMG]
    Some days, I wonder why I bother responding to people with anything but pictures of horse dung and the caption "your post is this." I would hope it is clear that I am pointing out I have seen animes that were commercially and critically successful.
    I'm not making any comment on the animation. I don't know where you'd get that idea from, as it's certainly not what's being discussed here. Your point I was responding to was that Japanese cartoons I've seen are "bottom of the barrel." So either you consider those two works to be "bottom of the barrel," or you made an unfounded assumption as to what I'd watched.

    Oh, and I'll take G1 over Macross any day that I want to watch an entertaining show.
    Transformers G1, Transformers: Animated. Seem pretty obvious considering the forum we're on. Star Wars: Clone Wars was pretty well received, IIRC.
     
  16. transtrekkie

    transtrekkie On the level.

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    Wouldn't it be Transformers: Buckets of Oil? Or Buckets of Energon?

    Y'know, as long as they stay true to the characters it'll be good. I actually cringed when I heard that Armada Starscream had actually joined the Autobots! I was also really glad that I had quit watching it by then.
     
  17. kidnicky

    kidnicky Well-Known Member

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    Transformers G1 was over 25 years ago,and as much as I love the show,the animation was pretty clunky,and the robots spend a lot of time doing goofy punches and WWF moves.

    Animated and Clone Wars have a visual style that makes any attempt at action or fighting just seem like slapstick.

    For the people complaining about TF going the Resolute route because they don't want "buckets of blood," are you guys aware TFs don't bleed,nor do they contain organs?
     
  18. Johnator

    Johnator 'Til All Are Gone!

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    I agree and support your idea for a Resolute style Transformers cartoon. I think some people forget that Hasbro has ALREADY said this would be a possibility if GI Joe Resolute did well and it did as far as I know so the idea is actually a realistic and good one.
     
  19. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    Because Resolute showed the murder of 10 million people and the graphic and lethal death of many enemies graphic detail.

    Neither of which have any place in a children's franchise, and is not something I need as an adult in my series to be happy or fullfilled. As you said, Batman:TAS was capable of being for kids and mature without doing either of those things. Resolute was violent for the sake of being violent and if people want that mindless violence... then they are asking for 'buckets of blood' as much as you claim you are not.

    And if you were talking from a pure animation style, there are half a dozens hows that share the exact same animation style as the same studio has been doing most of these direct to DVD Marvel/X Men series.

    And "mature = No Kicker" is another thing that is wrong. You can have 'kid sidekicks' in a series and still have it mature. I like humans in series because the central theme to almost every TF series has been how the Autobots interactions with humans give them a clear advantage over the decepticons and an ancient dying race is given new life from the growth and exposure to humans and thier short lifetimes. IDW's series had some great examples of 'kids' serving a great role without being the generic japanese anime bullcrap kids. (until IDW killed them off for little reason)

    So simply "removing Humans or Kids" from the series doesn't make it more mature at all or even necessarily a better series.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2009
  20. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    Avatar, Ben 10, Exo-Squad, numerous Batman cartoons... Actually, we produce a lot of good action cartoons here, but Japan produces so many more action cartoons in general, that there are bound to be more good ones even just statistically. Add to that the fact that a lot of the good action cartoons from the West take heavy inspiration from Japanese anime anyway...

    Honestly, I don't understand how Animated has failed to kill the "TransFormers has to be produced in the West" sentiment. It had its moments, but the overall story was weak, and few of the episodes contributed much to it. It's easily as uninspired as anything from the Unicron Trilogy, as crammed with stupid gags and stereotypes as the Japanese Beast-era cartoons, and almost as cringe-worthy as the worst of G1.

    I think it's time to face up to the fact that the exceptional writing of Beast Wars was exactly that: exceptional.
    Outside of what we should normally expect.
    A fluke.

    No matter where a new TF show is written or produced, it is most likely going to be drivel. What we need isn't an American or Japanese writing staff. What we need is a writing staff that knows how to create a compelling overall story populated with memorable characters, partition said story into bite-sized episodes instead of just stopping wherever the story happens to be every 25 minutes, develop said characters in a meaningful way, see the show as more than just a glorified toy commercial without taking it too seriously, and retain enough flexibility to adapt whenever Hasbro makes demands about what needs to be shown off on screen. That Mainframe managed to do all of those things at once floors me. The odds of another American, Canadian, British, or Australian staff doing all of those same things is frustratingly close to nil, and no better than the odds of getting all of those things from Japan. After all, Japan makes a ton of excellent, export-worthy shows that aren't Transformers. It's not a problem of culture. Its a problem of nobody outside of the fandom and above the age of 12 understanding the full potential of the brand. Anywhere.