New dynamics for Optimus and Megatron

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by QLRformer, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    Throughout Transformers history, Optimus Prime and Megatron have been portrayed as eternal archrivals. And only recently have new dynamics been introduced to this relationship - the Bay films hinted at their being brothers (I have to say “hinted”, because there is controversy at that), ANIMATED had them as near strangers, and PRIME had them as friends turned enemies.

    Where else could we go with them? What new dynamics can their bond hold?


    FATHER-SON DYNAMIC
    The TFTM article on TFWiki compared Optimus Prime to King Arthur and Megatron to Mordred. The interesting thing about that is, in Arthurian legend Mordred was King Arthur’s son (it was what got me started on all this).
    So there’s the dynamic of a good father and a wicked son, which would be very fascinating and would make for a compelling story. Examples of this working are Obi-Wan and Anakin Skywalker, Sifu and Tai Lung from KUNG FU PANDA, and DC Comics’ General Zod and Christopher Kent.

    This can also be reversed to having a wicked father and a good son, which can also be compelling and interesting to look at (examples of THIS are Anakin and Luke Skywalker and DC Comics’ Darkseid and Orion).


    LOVE TRIANGLE DYNAMIC
    I made a post about this earlier (



    EX-LOVERS DYNAMIC
    BLASPHEMY! YAOI SHIPPING! OPTIMUS AND MEGATRON SHOULD MAKE WAR NOT LOVE! (This actually creeps me out too, and anyway Hasbro might never allow it)

    That said, there are cases when gaying up a rivalry worked:
    - the recent BATMAN comic “Death of the Family” had the Joker act as a psychotic lover, trying to take away all Batman held dear so that there’d be nothing in his life left but him
    - HARRY POTTER’s headmaster wizard Albus Dumbledore had a lover-turned-enemy named Gellert Grindelwald – this wasn’t touched on too much, but enough that it counts
    - and of course X-MEN FIRST CLASS’s Professor X and Magneto, where there was a gay subtext spotted in their relationship.


    Does anyone else have any new dynamics for Optimus and Megatron? We can work inside the box as much as possible, I don’t mind Optimus and Megatron being plain archenemies; but sooner or later we have to bring in something new, as recent TF features have shown (I actually like Optimus and Megatron as brothers).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2016
  2. Yesss

    Yesss Leader of the Predacons

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    No...just...no.
     
  3. Astrotrain52

    Astrotrain52 Former Green Kool-aider

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    I might leave the fandom if Optimus and Megatron went Yaoi...outside of those weird tumblr mashups that occur. I would be all for Megatron succeeding in being a tyrant on Cybertron, and Optimus/Orion Pax being an former personal slave of Megatron's.
     
  4. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    The father-son dynamic sort of exists in Prime / aligned continuity already - Megatron took Orion under his wing and raised him to be the character we know today, after a fashion. Definitely a bit of master-student at any rate.

    I personally like the Animated take on it where Megatron was the big bad, the stuff of nightmares for Autobots and Optimus Prime was just a recurring thorn in his side. To Megatron, Optimus was an annoyance, below his attention initially until he'd been thrawted time and again. I guess the most accurate way to state that one would be rebel-authority, given Meg's freedom-fighter backstory and Optimus' role as "a member of the Autobot organisation" rather than its leader?


    Ex-lovers? Heck no. Love triangle might work, though, under the right circumstances.
     
  5. Dinodigger97

    Dinodigger97 germinates within you.

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    Two word answer: FUCK NO!!


    Though, I won't mind a Thor/Loki relationship.
     
  6. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    That was hinted at in the first film.
    Optimus to Megatron: "You left me no choice, brother..."

    It's not much, but you could say it was there.
     
  7. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    So basically every dynamic you can think up is based around a love-hate relationship, where there's actually positive feelings between the two that are masked by their actions. ULTRA-PASS, unless they're going to make a TF manga set in High School or something.


    We've already seen a real growth in the dynamics of their relationships in recent years. Animated gave us an Optimus Prime who was at the beginning in his career, unsure of himself and, despite his heroism and charisma, still not respected by his superiors (or even his subordinates, at times). It showed us part of his growth into a leader (even if sometimes in ways that were more based in deus ex machina/plot device than I would have liked), and helped heighten the importance and grandeur of many of the elements around him, such as the Allspark, the Elite Guard, and even Megatron.

    And speaking of Megatron, Animated also gave us a somewhat new Megatron, and definitely a new dynamic between the two characters. In Animated, Megatron starts out as being "lost", stripped of all his power on an alien world, and forced to work through guile and intrigue instead of raw conquering power, and relegated to manipulating those around him instead of marching into battle himself. Once he gets his body, he assumes a somewhat more traditional role, though we still see a much greater focus on subterfuge than in most previous incarnations. In terms of the Optimus/Megatron dynamic, this is also one of the first occasions (outside of War Dawn) where we see a focus on the period where the two characters were unaware of eachother, or unbalanced in terms of reputation/prestige. Megatron is a legendary figure, feared for his power, and Optimus is, ultimately, a nobody at that point. This gives even more gravitas to their battles, and Optimus' triumph, and in most cases necessitates a victory beyond the usual ass-whoopin method we see in many other continuities.

    In terms of other dynamics we've seen, there's been a definite shift in how Megatron has been approached in recent years, especially in terms of the comics. The movies portrayed him in a more pathetic light (even if they completely failed to capitalize on this potential), paralleling him with his shattered and decaying world. In the comics, there's been a movement away from a portrayal as a brutal tyrant and powerhungry conquerer to a revolutionary who believes the end justifies the means, who rose from humble beginnings by his own actions to overthrow what he felt as an unjust and corrupt society. Definitely a lot more sympathetic a portrayal, and it changes the dynamic between him and Optimus into less of a good vs. evil battle into something more complex, with the old order defending itself against a new movement, and the question of the costs/means/ideals that arise in such a struggle.





    What would I like to see in terms of a new dynamic? I'd like to see their relationship become a metaphor for the age-long struggle as a whole. Two Titans, both so experienced and entrenched in their struggle with eachother, that it has consumed their race (and themselves) completely. Both able to match the other in strength, tactics, and technology, but unable to gain an upper hand. I want to see the impact of that kind of unending attrition on their characters, and how they view eachother. A Megatron so frustrated at defeat, stagnation, and denial of the conquests he feels are rightfully his for so long, taking increasingly desparate, cruel, or imprudent plans of action to finally break through the stalemate, alongside and Optimus who, after so long, wonders if the sacrifices were truly worth it, what it is he's truly still fighting towards, and if peace at any cost (even in the face of tyranny) is a better option than the slow creep towards extinction he's seeing. I want a dynamic that is aware of the consequences of the unending war that is at the core of the franchise, and it's impact on the characters who've lived through it for so very, very long.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  8. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    Well, it would depend on the writer to make it compelling. And Optimus and Megatron has mostly been on love-hate.

    You've got something of greatness there.
     
  9. spikex

    spikex Nightbird is my bitch

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    I think something along the lines of them being the two separated halves of a single being a-la The Dark Crystal would be interesting. A plot with the two attempting to overcome the other so they can absorb the loser and return to full power while not relinquishing their identity to the other so the victor may rule the galaxy with peace or tyranny.
    It would take a little hammering out but it could be done. Maybe with the faction members being in the same position.
     
  10. Autoboticon

    Autoboticon In like a Bot, out like a Con

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    Thrown off the Nemesis by Megatron.
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    The love triangle thing might work, but only when Optimus is still Orion, then once the war starts Megatron kills her and tells Optimus all these events are because of you and it's now more than just a petty crush, its war.
     
  11. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    I completely disagree. There's been instances where they've had a measure of respect for eachother, even bordering on obsession in the comics, as well as an element of cosmic predestination to be opposing forces (something that's also touched upon in Beast Machines), but not love. They work alongside eachother between G1 and G2 in some obscure story pages, but again, mutual self-interest, not love, and the peace doesn't last. Only in the movies (and Prime) has there been any indication that there's some previous feeling to the opposition they express in the present, and even then it appears to be long past (Optimus takes, what, a few seconds to go murdermad on Megatron in DOTM?). In fact, these two continuities are the only ones that I can think of where the two characters have any sort of direct familiarity with eachother before the war.

    I think that it's a common trope to try and give two characters previous history, especially "affectionate" history, in an effort to create a dramatic dynamic between them. For some characters, it can work, but for others, it comes off as strained, stretches suspension of disbelief, or diminishes the overall conflict they participate in (look at GI Joe: Rise of Cobra, for example). For characters like Optimus Prime and Megatron, I feel the only sort of previous history they could have that avoids these problems is what we've seen, that they were both powerful figures before the war, either dealing with eachother directly and/or being trained alongside eachother for command before they had a falling out over philosophical differences (and the war began). And as such, between the movies, Prime, and the RiD Ultra Magnus/Optimus relationship, this is a dynamic we've seen, and something new should be attempted that goes in a different direction, rather than turning the Autobot/Decepticon conflict into a robot Iliad.
     
  12. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    Sentinel Prime was the father figure Odin, if Odin went against his morals, and the Fallen is Papaltine.

    In the films it seemed more like Optimus and Megatron were the generals while Sentinel Prime and the Fallen were the real leaders of their respective factions.

    In Beast Wars Optimus was a captain while Megatron was a renegade leader. Not overall leaders of their factions.

    So maybe change the dynamic that they are not top honchos. But eventually once their leader bite the dust in the series they take the reigns of leadership.

    Now the question in the end if Optimus and Megatron continue the feud their leaders had or form a truce as they were once middle management.
     
  13. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    I'd write my Optimsu and Megatron to have only met once on battlefield long ago but neither knew who the other was.

    I'd love to see them gradually building themselves a dynamic than already having one.
     
  14. toaster

    toaster It's Hip to be Square !

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    What made you think the yoai dynamic would work ? Try something that doesn't make them enemies. Howabout both being 2 generals who have to fight off a bigger threat (Unicorn or something else) and Op tries diplomacy and Megs try offense.
     
  15. dirgestone

    dirgestone Banned

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    I think (greeing the previous poster) Animated showed us the best Megs/Op combo. Megs didn't even show Op any respect at all. Like a fly beneath his boot so to speak. I like the way they were in the Animated series best. The war was something new to Optimus a 600 million war seems foolish for an advanced race.

    Also one of the reasons I liked beast Machines is that both Optimus and Megs were more alike than either realized. Megs was hellbent on slavery and Op was hell bent on making things organic.

    A different take would be Megs actually looking up to Optimus and being let down because Optimus is just another politcal figure blind by his own celebrity. Megs would lead a revolution and Optimus trying to stop him while also realizing all the autobots were not as honest as he thought
     
  16. kurochan_24

    kurochan_24 Well-Known Member

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    How about a co-student relation ship ala Snake Eyes/Storm Shadow in the 1st G.I. Joe film?

    Both are under the wing of Primus but Megatron goes astray as he is strong but displayed impulsive actions and the like.
     
  17. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Have them be total strangers, unaware of eachother as their subordinates duke it out. As Megatron gets more and more frustrated in defeat, he's forced to investigate who's out-thinking him, and with every victory against the Decepticon armada, Optimus learns more about their fearsome leader. Things escalate more and more, as the two learn more and more about eachother, building a rivalry in absentia of actual face-to-face interaction, becoming more and more obsessed with their opponent, at the head of what stands in their way, until the final climatic moment where they meet face to face...
     
  18. nobleboivin

    nobleboivin Well-Known Member

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    i like all the idea except the yaoi. that's just disturbing
     
  19. ArmoredSwampert

    ArmoredSwampert Literal Pokéformer

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    You know, fighting over a girl is how the Primes split up in the Algined continuity, so it could work.
     
  20. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    QLR, please, for your own sanity, stop making these threads.