I don't think it's so much people hate comic relief characters in general as it is some production teams handle comic characters really well and some teams, well some teams just aren't good at the comic relief.

So if you said say George Lucas was doing a film with comic relief you'd get a groan from me because the track record isn't good. If you said Mel Brooks was providing the comic relief then I'd be all excited.

It's like any other aspect of film making everyone has strong points but just about everyone has weak points as well.

 

I see alot of people saying that why can't Transformers have a deep story, but not enough people telling me WHY SHOULD IT?

What's the problem with good old brainless loud fun? This is the enterteinament industry, and there is alot of variety, it's not like anybody is making you see the movie, there's deep movies out there if you don't want Bay style fun, and comic books out there if you want deep TF storylines, so why run around yelling HAHA SKIDS AND MUDFLAP ARE HORRIBLE THIS MOVIE SUCKS I PITY BLIND FANS or HAHA MOVIE IS AWESOME I PITY BLIND FANS.

Not everything on the silver screen GOT TO be a Schindler's List, specially movies made to sell toys and school material.

 

Oh thanks, I sorta figured something like that happened when I was scouring the thread for a place that said that and couldn't find one ^_^; I wasn't neccesarily replying to him with that post anyway because it sounded like he was defending me lol

 

I don't think when Draven made his post that he was implying everyone who has a negative opinion on the movie or is nervous about how the twins are going to turn out is doing so because they're dedicated to hating the movie. Naturally, people have different reasons for liking or disliking things (as I tried - maybe not as successfully as I thought - to point out in my post when I said it works both ways). There are some people, however, (you're definitely not one of them) who seem unwilling to even give the concepts like the twins a chance, regardless of their overall opinion of how the movie series has been handled so far.

Well, prior to the first movie no one knew what to expect. I think at this point it's pretty obvious that the movie series isn't going to be taking itself too seriously, just like most of the Transformers cartoons before it (and likely most of them that will follow it). In that respect, comedic characters like the twins aren't out of place.

I would also say the movies are a pretty accurate reflection of the franchise to the general public. Transformers has rarely been known for deep storytelling and characterization. Even the best of the series have had their ridiculously over-the-top "Bay-ish" moments of humor. The movies don't break from this tradition, they simply aren't meeting the standards that some fans have decided they'd like them to. That's fine but the righteous indignation that some are spouting (not you, of course) over the silliness of a movie based on a line of children's toys and cartoons that have largely been silly for most of their history, is pretty ridiculous.

 

At least Animated has twins who are competent. Thank you, Mr. Isenberg.

If the twins , are voiced by Jar Jar's voice actor or even sound like it then consider me not even renting this.

 

Holy crap! I feel very sorry for all of you who have such a NARROW definition of what this movie has to be! Some of you are so uptight and have so many demands and requirements of the upcoming movie that it could never ever meet your expectations!!! A lot of you won't be happy until it stops varying in any way from your own very limited and extremely stringent personal canon.

Maybe I'm just not like other fans, but I enjoy every new interpretation of the Transformers. I have been enjoying each permutation since the very beginning, when the comics went a different way than the cartoon! I embraced Beast Wars, I enjoyed the Japanese shows, and I even enjoyed the different takes of the AEC trilogy. And I love the direction Animated has taken. It's different! Do you think I really want to have the same damned story told to me over and over again for 25 years? That's why even the most constantly-told stories change. Superman has new origins, Spider-Man gets retold. Everything changes! In this instance, instead of a bunch of dumb Dinobots lumbering around, there will be too goofy ass compact cars.

And so fucking what if there is a "goofy" character? Will some of you die if you happen to laugh along the ride?? I swear, some of you seem like you were nursed with vinegar and weaned on pickles!

As has been said before, how bout we wait till we actually see the film (and you know you will, everyone of you who are promising to sit home and download the torrent will be there opening night) and then once we actually have taken it in, THEN, ONLY THEN let's make a judgment about it.

P.S. Kickback, srsly, I will volunteer my wife to have your babies. Rock on!

 

God I love these rage threads... so funny.

"You only liked it 'cause it had Transformers slapped on it!"
"You only hated it cause you're so Geewun!"
"I hated it 'cause it had lame characters and no story!"
"Did you SEE the cartoons?"

Rinse.. repeat..

 

forget megatron, forget the fallen. Bay has caused more destruction to transformers than both combined. What an idiot.

 

Wow. And so it begins again. *sigh*

 

So wait they are like Beavis and Butthead?

 

We don't know. No-one here does.
They just think they do.

 

Really? what animated TF show are you watching? I see two characters based on upgrades of 'enemy' technology that have the persona's of defected Russian soldiers who speak weird, have a hard time understanding autobot protocol that leads to silly and funny misunderstandings and following of orders. Sure they may be able to fight but since when was transformers basically rockem' sockem' robots?

The Animated Twins are like a Yakov Smirnoff sketch. And they are hilarious because of it. I suspect even if the Movie twins are a Jeff Foxworthy redneck joke they will still be 'competent' in the same way Animated twins are and TF1 Frenzy was. Frenzy was silly as can be but very COMPETENT. he moved the plot along more than any other decepticon.

 

Oh great. Now I get to look forward to hillbilly 1 and hillbilly 2. Just lost some respect for the movie.

 

Comedy can be delivered in ANY tone. Even Nolan's excellent (and dark) Batman movies have plenty of humor, but it's humor that fits, and doesn't take us out of the moment.

Jar-Jar's issue wasn't his existence; he made a fine Looney Tune. The problem was that he clashed garishly with what we paid to see: The backstory for Star Wars. I like a good slapstick as much as the next guy, but it doesn't fit with every setting or story. Something being funny doesn't mean it'll be funny in every context.

How this applies in Transformers: It's not that we don't like seeing a jerk get peed on. Or ten minutes about how ethnic stereotypes are hilarious. Or even the main human adversary turning out to be a total joke, and not at all the shrewd, calculating threat the prequel materials had us looking forward to. Those all have their place, in some movies. But when the whole story comes screeching to a halt to shove a contrived moment of out-of-context comedy at us, it's just not natural storytelling.

I mean, didn't anyone else wait through all the irrelevant scenes with Glenn, wondering when we'd get back to, y'know, the actual Autobots, or even Sam (since he's at least involved in the plot)?

It's not that we critics have no sense of humor. We just think that good comic relief is integrated, not interspersed.

 

I'm hoping this is all just part of his campaign of lies. :|

 

I would disagree pretty much completely with your whole premise here. It doesn't at all Clash with Starwars. The backstory is not all emo death and destruction. Did you even watch episode 4,5,6? Han solo, Chewy, Yoda, Ewoks, C3p0, R2D2? All of those characters were designed to be funny, lighthearted and campy.

JarJar's antics plays on a very common character archtype from litature. He is a fool of fortune who directly impacted the origins of Darth Vader. His mere existence caused many of the circumstances that led to the unfortunate events that created Darth Vader. Frankly all episodes 1-3 are unfortunate events that played out in the grand prophecy of bringing balance to the force which is supposedly done not by vader, not by look, but Leia's children. All of which is started by 'the chosen one'.

I think the Slapstick fit perfectly with his character and the design that an incompetent boob was used as a tool of fate to accomplish so much. I mean besides everything int he first movie, he was the senator that basically gave the emperor total authority over the republic which lead to the rest of the events afterwards. If someone else was in that role, it may never have happened.

But I am sure there were people in the early 1600's in the Globe Theatre that thought 'Puck' was a character of pointless humor and was utter rubbish as well.

 

I'd like to keep this geared towards Transformers, so I apologize if I skewed off-topic attempting to illustrate a point. I beg the mods' indulgence, though, as I address a couple of issues.

Leighthearted, yes. Archetypical? Absolutely, as is the entire story; a midieval Western set in space. As I said in my post, the issue lies not with the presence of humor, but with how well a storyteller integrates it with the main storyline. None of the characters you listed off above had Benny Hill-esque farce escapades. Their leighthearted nature was conveyed in story-relevant means.

This is a good point, about the purpose of the "fortunate fool" archetype. Still, the execution is what I'm criticizing here, not the character's existence or his role in the story.
Also, the fanboy in me is obligated to point out that it was indeed Anakin who defeated the Emperor and restored balance. All the EU stuff is fun, but thematically apocyphal.

Again, you're confusing my criticism of the tone of humor with some other criticism of the character's role. I'm not hating on Jar-Jar, I'm pointing out how comic relief can detract if it contrasts too sharply with the overall tonality. THAT'S how this all relates to TRANSFORMERS, which fails even more seriously because most of the "comic relief" scenes are injected, and have next to nothing to do with the actual movie at hand. Perhaps Jar-Jar's not the best example.

Puck is a pivotal character in Midsummer Night's Dream; I'm not sure I follow you, here. If you write out Puck, there's no story. I don't think you can really compare the execution of Puck's character to that of Jar-Jar, or Glenn in TF. Puck's jokes are context-dependent, and true to the feel of the rest of the play. Glenn's jokes can all be lifted straight out of TF and slapped down into any screwball comedy. I like screwball comedies, but what is one doing in the middle of my TF movie?

Basically,
Puck: Relevant contextual humor, principal character. Hilarious.
Jar-Jar: Irrelevant archetype, atonal humor, but at least he contributes a little to the plot. Mildly grating.
Glenn: Irrelevant humor, irrelevant archetype, no impact on the story whatsoever, and inconsistant with the general tone. Insufferable.

 

Pointless comical hillbillies=I'm not interested.

I wouldn't say that comical characters have no place in TF though. I mean, just watch BW, Cybertron, and Energon. I personally HATE "fun" characters in general, because most of the time their not "FUN" at all their just annoying, and that's probably how these guys are gonna be.

Many of you people here are saying that Bay is an idiot for doing this (although I think allot of you will say that he's an idiot no matter what he does); however, allot of you are die-hard Beast Wars fans. In other words, you should have no problem at all with crappy, pointless humor.

Oh yeah, one more thing, Jar Jar was WAY funnier than the Ewoks (who were rubbish). I know that wasn’t the point of the discussion you guys were having, but I just had to get that out.

 

QFT

 

See, that's the problem. Now that I know what to expect from Bay on this franchise, I don't see much hope for his "comic relief" characters. It's not that I don't like "comic relief"... I just don't like shitty, badly written comic relief that occasionally derails the plot.

What's ridiculous is that a lot of those who defended TF 2007 going into the film, did so on the basis of the darker, more realistic, more adult tone that was going to differentiate THIS Transformers from the goofy, cartoonish saturday-morning space opera for kids that those "pathetic Geewunners" wanted it to be (allegedly). Now I suspect a lot of those same people are defending the Bay movies based on the fact that they are consistent with the preceding goofy, cartoonish drivel for kids that Transformers has always been.

It's a fickle little fandom isn't it?  

My most stringent requirement is that it not suck... on a cosmic level of lowest-common-denominator pandering, like the first one did. All it has to do is be well-made, clever, self-consistent and entertaining... and not leave me rolling my eyes over the stupidity of it all, or walking out of the theater feeling vaguely mortified that I might be considered a "fan".

Not hopeful on that front.

I like to laugh. Show me something funny, and I'll consider it. TF 2007? Not funny.

Opening night is for fools who like high ticket prices, long lines, obnoxious noisy crowds, and bad seats. For the first film, I waited maybe a month... went to see it on cheap night while I was on vacation. Even under those circumstances, I felt like I got burned. Later, on the day it was released on DVD, I put it on in my video store to give it a second chance. I actually found it difficult to sit though.

I WILL see ROTF though... it's like some kind of sickness. Even when I know it's going to be like a kick in the balls, I have to see it. Maybe with expectations as low as mine are now, it'll actually seem better?

Cinemastique, you speak the truth. Rock on.  

zmog