Multiple cards in a slot?

Discussion in 'Transformers Trading Card Game (TCG) Discussion' started by Bugste81, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. Bugste81

    Bugste81 Ste

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    Wondering if anyone can help clarify what happens with the following cards: Multiple cards.GIF Cargo Trailers - Multiply?
    Attack Drone - Attack stacks?
    Focus Fire - ?
    Multi Missile Pod - ?
    Extra Padding - Tough Stack?
    War of Attrition & Sonic Scramble - can be played one after another as one action?

    Cheers
     
  2. That Guy

    That Guy Well-Known Member

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    Multi missile pod doesn't add to your attack. It does direct damage. If you scrap 3 in a turn you do 3 damage to each enemy.

    Focus fire - first card you play gives 1 character bold 1. If you play a second you can give 1 character bold 2, if you play a third you can give 1 character bold 3. You can put it all on a single character for bold 6.

    War of attrition, Sonic Scramble, and Focus Fire all let you play another of the same card without a need for brainstorm.
     
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  3. Bugste81

    Bugste81 Ste

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    Great. Thanks for that. So it is just Cargo Trailers and Focus fire that multiplys and all the others stack? While I'm at it regarding Metal Detector -If I'm attacking and flip a Grenade Launcher I can add it staight to that attack. If I flip a Power Punch I can equipt it but it doesn't add to the bold?
    Regards
     
  4. That Guy

    That Guy Well-Known Member

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    Yes you approach the logic as if you read each card out loud and do exactly what it days. Cargo trailer says +1 for each cargo trailer. If you have 3 then that is 3 cards giving you +3

    Focus Fire says bold for each focus fire Played. The first is +1 (1 played), the second is +2 (2 played), the third is +3 (3 played). The cards are meant to be taken very literally.

    I believe we are incorrect about metal detector I double checked and CybertroianFan is right, your flips are not set at that point yet. Although side note. If you attack, flip the top card and it is a Grenade launcher or powerpunch, they don't see your attack as a trigger since it already happened, so they wouldn't scrap that turn.

    soundblasters ability to pull weapons from the scrap when he attacks also works the same way. It's made him a lot of fun with the black pip weapons that are coming up in way five. I did some testing recently on my YouTube channel and skipping the scrap on a Power Gem to use it as defence is great.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
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  5. CybertronianFan

    CybertronianFan Well-Known Member

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    If you reveal a Power Punch with Metal Detector, you can equip it and it will grant Bold 3. Attack triggers (which is when Metal Detector happens) occur before battle flips. The flips are not set yet, so it will grant the Bold. If, somehow, you were to attach Power Punch in the midst of or after battle flips, then it wouldn't grant the Bold as flips are occurring and already set (akin to how Optimus Battlefield Legend can play an action during his flips. If the action taken provides an Attack bonus {Leap Into Battle for example}, he'll gain the bonus to his ATK. But if he flips Supercharge he won't gain the Bold 3 as Supercharge would be played when flips have occurred).

    It should be noted that Attack Drone, Focus Fire, Extra Padding, War of Attrition, and Sonic Scramble (or any other card that says "you may play another 'X card'.") are not 'one action'. They are separate plays that are permitted to chain off each other. When you play said cards and somehow that card is stopped from playing or cancelled (Secret Actions like Jam Signals/Infiltrate or cards like Turbo Board that only permit playing two cards a turn), it will stop the chain plays.

    Example 1: My opponent has a Secret Action faced down. I have three Focus Fires in hand. I play Focus Fire and my opponent reveals the Secret Action: Infiltrate. This negates my Focus Fire and will stop me from playing any consecutive plays of Focus Fire that turn (it also uses up my 1 action per turn).

    Example 2: My Opponent has Turbo Board in play. I have three Extra Paddings in hand. I play an action and then play Extra Padding. When I trigger Padding to play additional ones, I no longer can because Turbo Board stops me from playing more than 2 cards a turn (if I were to play Padding first prior my action play, I could only play 2 Paddings and forfit playing the action I was going to play).
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
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  6. Bugste81

    Bugste81 Ste

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    Cheers for the clarification. Thanks.
     
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  7. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime System Pride

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    The cards are pretty self explanatory. It literally says right on the card exactly how they work.

    Cargo Trailer: Your math is wrong. It says plus 1 not times however many you play. You have 2 as x2 and 3 as x3. No where does it say that's how it works. 1=1, 2=2, 3=3

    Attack Drone: Just like the card says when you play an attack drone you can play another drone immediately after. Up to 3 can be played at one time.

    Focus Fire: Unlike some of the others listed this doesn't specify a limit of how many you can play but it's safe to assume 3 as that's the most of any single card you can even have in the deck. This is also an action rather than an upgrade which means all of the Focus Fire you play would be discarded once your turn is over.

    Multi Missile Pod: You can equip up to 3 at once however the card also states that you have to scrap the cards after you use them. You could choose to fire them off one at a time or build them up and wait to use them all at once.

    Extra Padding: This and Attack Drone you actually had the math right and you should pretty much apply that to all of these.

    War of Attrition & Sonic Scramble: No they're totally different cards. Neither one of them says anything about working with each other. They're just like every other card you've mentioned here. War of Attrition lets you play other WoA cards immediately after that. Sonic Scramble lets you play other Sonic Scramble cards immediately after that. They do both also have a secondary effect that only works if you play three in one turn where as the others just stack and don't do anything else.

    And I have no idea why you brought up Brainstorm. There are cards that require you to play Brainstorm first but those specifically mention that you need to do that on the card, these do not. That just seems totally random to ask about Brainstorm when non of these cards even mention it. So no you do not need to play Brainstorm first unless you see a card that specifically tells you to do that.
     
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  8. CybertronianFan

    CybertronianFan Well-Known Member

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    He's actually correct in this instance. For each Cargo Trailer you have in play, each trailer grants +1 Attack. So if one is in play, Cargo Trailer grants +1 Attack. If two of them are in play, each Cargo Trailer grants +2 Attack (2 Cargo Trailers at +2 Attack each, 2 x 2 = 4). If three of them are in play, each of them grants +3 Attack (3 Cargo Trailers at +3 Attack each, 3 x 3 = 9).
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
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  9. SaberPrime

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    No, again no where does it say to multiply.

    This is correct.

    That's not how this works. They are not +2 each, they're +1 Each.

    1+1=2

    1+1+1=3

    You do not multiply. It's addition not multiplication. If they wanted you to multiple it would say x the number of cards in play not +1.

    Again this is correct.

    And now you're wrong again because you're magically turning addition into multiplication.

    2 x 2 is 4 and 3 x 3 is 9 but it says + not x

    They are +1 each. This does not translate to do multiplication. It translates to add plus one for each card.

    1=1
    1+1=2
    1+1+1=3

    Are you looking at the card at an angle? That is not a multiplication symbol. Even if it was you wouldn't be able to stack them at all because anything x1 is still 1 so technically making that a multiplication problem would turn it into

    1x1=1
    1x2=1
    1x3=1

    Not only would the + need to be an x but the 1 would also have to be changed to read "the number of cards in play" to actually make that work the way you said it does.

    I'm not sure why but the quote button didn't automatically add this part. I had to manually go back and copy and past it into it's own quote tags myself. Never had that happen before.

    Anyway... that is not incorrect considering you literally just repeated exactly what I said in the first place. You said it was wrong but didn't actually correct anything. Though perhaps I wasn't clear and you misunderstood.

    When I said you can equip up to three at once I meant in the same slot not on the same turn. Unless the card specifically says on it that you can play another one on the same turn you normally aren't allowed to do that.

    Still it's up to you if you want to discard them one at a time or build them and fire them off all at once.

    On a related note... I don't really understand how THOSE cards work. The rules say you can only play ONE Action or Upgrade per term unless otherwise specified on the card.

    If you play an action which lets you play an upgrade... what exactly is the advantage? I mean you could of played that upgrade anyway so that extra card seems a little redundant. It would make more sense if it let you play one MORE card than you normally would have but it just says to do something that would of already been part of your normal turn anyway had you not even played that card. I have New Designs and don't even like using it as it seems to just take up space and do absolutely nothing.

    Some things are really self explanatory and easy to understand. Others are kind of confusing and not explained very well. Like the distinction between attack/defense and tough/bold wasn't very clear in the rules and I had to look it up online to find out what the difference was. (One being more direct while the other is more about how many extra cards you get to flip while attacking or defending.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  10. CybertronianFan

    CybertronianFan Well-Known Member

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    No. Re-read the card. Each individual Cargo Trailer grants +1 Attack for each Cargo Trailer you have in play. That's why when there are two Cargo Trailers, each Trailer grants +2 Attack. If three are in play, each Trailer grants +3 Attack.

    You're still missing the fact that each individual Trailer grants a bigger bonus when more Trailers are in play. They're not simply just +1 Attack. If they were, they'd have the +1 ATK icon at the bottom left of the card like all other upgrades that grant a static attack bonus (look at Attack Drone for example. They're stackable, but they each only grant +1 Atk as shown by the icon on the bottom left of the card. Cargo Trailer does not have that icon and this is not a misprint). It translates to +1 per each trailer in play, for each trailer. Unfortunately, you're the one misunderstanding Cargo Trailer.

    Yep, initially it came across as you being able to play them all at once and not that they are stackable in one slot. Hence why I edited out from my post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  11. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime System Pride

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    Yes I get all that. That's all correct there what you just said. What is not correct is when plus magically changes to multiply for no reason.

    What difference does that make if it says +1 for each cargo trailer in the corner or +1 for each in the actual text of the card? +1 is still just +1 no matter where it's printed.

    You also keep highlighting "each individual" as if that's suppose to make a difference. It doesn't. It's +1 for each individual...

    1+1=2

    1+1+1=3

    That IS +1 for each individual.

    Multiplication as I've said before would be worded as "times" or "multiplied by" the number of cards in play not "each individual"

    Individual just means 1 and anything times 1 is just the other number. So you're basically just adding anyway.

    I had said something different earlier but that's actually division. It's anything times 0 is still 0... I haven't done this since high school. :p 

    Anyway... because it's only 1 for each individual card anyway... addition or multiplication it's still just 1, 2, 3. You're pulling 4 and 6 out of no where as no part of that card says to multiply the number of cards in play by itself which is the only way you can get those numbers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  12. CybertronianFan

    CybertronianFan Well-Known Member

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    Apparently you don't as this still stumps you. Weather one says 1 + 1 trailer or trailers x2 is or 1 trailer + 1 trailer + 1 trailer to 1 trailer x3 is irrelevant. It still equals the same numbers Trailers in play.

    Incorrect. You're still not getting it. The difference is the icon on the bottom left represents a static, non-changing number. Cargo Trailer purposely omits that because each individual card grants a bigger bonus the more Cargo Trailer cards you have in play. They EACH piggyback off each other. They each grant each other a greater boon the more of them you have in play. Cargo Trailers are not static. They're incremental as more of them are in play.

    Yes! That's whole point of Cargo Trailers! They're not static bonus! It makes all the difference. It's not +1 for each individual. It's +1 for each trailer in play for each individual.

    You keep looking at it as if they were static, they're not. It goes like this:

    One Cargo Trailer: It grants +1 Atk

    Two Cargo Trailers: Each of the cards grants +1 Atk for every Cargo Trailer in play. Since I now have two in play. Each Trailer increases is +ATK to 2. So now that upgraded character has +4 Atk.

    Three Cargo Trailers: Again, EACH of the cards grants +1 ATK for every Cargo Trailer in play. I now have three in play. Each Trailer card increased its bonus to +3 Atk. The upgraded character now ends up with +9 Atk.

    It literally becomes:
    1
    2+2
    3+3+3

    Can't help you in the Math department as long as you keep being close-minded about this. But don't take my word for it. Look up every reference regarding how Cargo Trailers' bonuses work and stack and you'll see that what I am telling you is correct.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
  13. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime System Pride

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    It stumps me why you think that because that's no how math works.

    + and x does not = the same number of trailers in play, it absolutely makes a HUGE difference.

    +3 trailers = 3 trailers in play.

    x3 trailers = 9 trailers in play.

    Where the heck did the extra 6 trailers come from?

    It's not that I'm not getting it, it's that no where does it say that. I understand the concept just fine, but the card does not say to do this. It does not matter if the number is printed in the corner or not it's still the same number. It hasn't changed and nothing in the text tells you to treat it any differently.

    It makes no difference. It's still a +1... PLUS ONE... I don't know why we're saying things twice. Insecticons are staring at me. o_o

    You keep looking at this as if +1 magically changes into a multiplication problem for no reason. You keep asserting that it's suppose to work this way for no reason. And you expect me to just accept that's how it works for no reason.

    Unless you can give me a reason this is just going to be a very circular argument of you asserting the same thing over and over again while I continue to point out it says +1 over and over again. What makes this +1 different from that +1? Where does it say they're different? If you expect this argument to go anywhere answer those questions. If you can you win, if you can't, I win. And that will be the end of the argument.

    You're correct up to this point. 1+1=2 good job.

    And now you're wrong. You still haven't explained when this suddenly became a multiplication problem. You know what this reminds me of?

    Step 1: Steal underpants
    Step 2: ?
    Step 3: Profit!

    I think you missed a step there.

    Step 1:
    Step 2:?

    Step 3:
    No it's +3 when did we multiply? How it suddenly +9?

    No it's literally just:

    1
    1+1
    1+1+1

    exactly as the card says. How does it become a multiplier when nothing indicates to do that?

    I understand the math. That's not the issue. As I said early on you would be right if it said to multiply by the number of cards in play. What I don't understand is WHERE DOES IT SAY TO DO THAT?

    Again you're skipping a step here and jumping straight from the correct addition problem to it suddenly having an answer to a totally different math problem without explaining how the hell you got to that conclusion.

    It's not that I'm close minded, it's that you're not actually explaining anything you're just asserting this is the answer for no reason.

    Correct math.
    1+1=2

    2x2=4

    Your math

    1+1=4

    How did you get from 1+1 to 4?

    Step 1: 1 + 1 =

    Step 2: ?

    Step 3: 4

    What?
     
  14. CybertronianFan

    CybertronianFan Well-Known Member

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    You're misunderstanding this too.

    3 Trailers at +3 Atk each = 9 Attack. This I was never implying the number of trailers grew beyond three, just the overall +Atk granted. (that's where I'm using multiplcation)


    It says it r i g h t ... o n ... t h e ... c a r d
    Cargo Trailer.jpg

    Each individual Cargo Trailer card grants +1 Atk to the upgraded character for each Cargo Trailer on that character. If I have 2 Cargo Trailers on a character, each Cargo trailer will grant +2 Atk. If 3 are on it, each Trailer becomes +3 Atk

    Again, don't take my word for it. Look up every single reference regarding Cargo Trailer's bonuses and how they stack 'n' grow.

    I'm not the one stuck here. You are. And you're correct, we're not going to get anywhere until you finally grasp that Cargo Trailer's Atk bonus isn't static.

    You keep thinking I am mentioning how many Cargo Trailers pop into play. I've been saying over and over again. It's the ATK value. Each trailer gets bigger with more Trailers in play. I'm multiplying the ATK values as they go up due to the increased numbers of Trailers that come into play.

    1 trailer at +1 Atk = 1 (1 trailer x 1 Atk). Total when only one trailer is in play: +1 Atk
    2 Trailers at +2 Atk (because EACH trailer gets bigger as more trailers are in play) = 2 Atk each trailer (2 trailers x 2 Atk each). Total for having two trailers in play: +4 Atk
    3 Trailers at +3 Atk (because EACH trailer gets bigger as more trailers are in play) = 3 Atk each trailer (3 trailers x 3 Atk each). Total for having all three trailers in play: +9 Atk.

    That's why I posted as I did above (and again below). Each number icon representing an individual trailer (not the # of trailers). The icon's numeric value represents the +Atk that individual trailer is granting at that time.

    1 (first trailer in play and its +Atk value).
    2+2 (first and 2nd trailer in play and their respective Atk values each).
    3+3+3 (all three trailers in play and their respective Atk values each).
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
  15. Carnage73

    Carnage73 Well-Known Member

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    The way I understand it is that the Cargo Trailer's effect sees itself and sees the other trailers when determining the bonus. When you have 2 Cargo Trailers attached (we'll call them A and B), A looks to see how many copies are attached. A sees itself attached and gives +1 & also sees B attached and gives another +1. B sees itself attached and gives +1 & also sees A attached and gives another +1. Now you have a bonus of +4.

    For 3 copies of Cargo Trailer (let's call them A, B & C), A sees itself, B & C attached and gives a combined +3 bonus. B sees itself, A & C attached and gives another combined +3 bonus. C sees itself, A & B attached and gives another combined +3 bonus. Now you have a bonus of +9.
     
  16. SaberPrime

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    OK but it doesn't say +3 attack each. It says +1 attack each. 3 Trailers at +1 attack each = 3 attack. That's why it doesn't matter if it's in the corner or not because it would still be =3.

    That just says to add +1 for each Cargo trailer not to multiple by the number of cargo trailers. No where does it say that number changes, the 1 is still static no matter where it's written. If it wasn't meant to be a static number it wouldn't be a number at all.

    The upgraded character has +1 attack for each Cargo Trailer on it. Up to 3 Cargo Trailers can fit into this utility slot.

    That's what it actually says. You're reading it as.

    The upgraded character has x# attack for each Cargo Trailer on it. Up to 3 Cargo Trailers can fit into this utility slot.

    The x changes it from addition to multiplication and the # indicates that the number is represented by how many cargo trailers are attached rather than a single static number.

    Now I will give you this. If it said +2 for each that would then be.

    1 = 2
    2 = 4
    3 = 6

    If it said +3 for each that would be.

    1 = 3
    2 = 6
    3 = 9

    "for each" does indicate a multiplier but the issue is that your multiplier is 1.

    If I have 1 for fruit roll up for 3 people, how many fruit roll ups are there in total? According to your math, 9 but if each of the 3 people only get 1 fruit roll up that means there must also be 3 fruit roll ups. If there were 9 then each person would get 3.

    +1
    or
    1 x 1 = 1

    1 + 1
    or
    1 x 2 = 2

    1 + 1 + 1
    or
    1 x 3 = 3

    You're still just adding a +1. I'm still lost as how those problems turned into these problems.

    2 + 2
    or
    2 x 2 = 4

    3 + 3
    or
    3 x 3 = 9

    Where does it say to do that?

    But it is... cause it's value is 1.

    Because it says +1 and you suddenly brought in 2 and 6 extra cargo trailers out of thin air.

    And I've been saying over again over again that your math is wrong because no where does it say to do that. You're multiplying attack values that don't exist resulting in higher numbers appearing magically out of no where with no explanation given.

    No that would be 2 Trailers at +1 attack... Where did the +2 come from?

    Where does it say that?

    Which is your total because 1 + 1 = 2

    Which would be an extra step that the card doesn't actually tell you to do. So why are you doing it?

    Which is wrong because you added that extra step for seemingly no reason.

    I'm getting tired of repeating myself so just read everything I said above and apply it to this as well.

    What?

    That's what # would mean. 1 is a static number with a static value that doesn't magically change just because you added another trailer. The 1 is still a 1. If you add a second trailer you add the 1's together which equals 2. If you add a third trailer, you then add that 1 which then equals 3.

    For some reason I don't understand in your mind when you play a second cargo trailer +1 per trailer magically changes to +2 per trailer and then you multiply 2 x 2 to get 4 but NOTHING SAYS TO DO THAT! So you are essentially conjuring 2 extra cargo trailers out of thin air. When you put the 3rd on the value magically changes again to +3 and then you multiply 3 x 3 to get 9 and again NOTHING SAYS TO DO THAT! So you are essentially conjuring 6 extra cargo trailers out of thin air.

    But it's not 2+2 it's not 3+3+3. The attack value is still 1 there for it is 1+1 and 1+1+1 (This part is actually correct. First and second trailer in play and their respective attack valutes which is 1 each. Why you think it's suddenly 2 each is a mystery to me. All three trailers in play and their respective attack values each which is again still just 1 each and again I have no idea why you think it's magically turned into 3 each.)

    Show me where it says that the 1 turns into a 2 and then a 3. Because if I put down 2 or 3 cards and it says +1 on it I'm going to add that value of 1 for each card like it actually says to do. I'm not going to add a value of 2 or 3 for each card depending on how many cards I'm playing unless I see something that clearly states to do that. So again where does it say to do that?

    Cards can't magically change their numeric value depending on how many are in play. That's why cards that work this way usually have a symbol in place of a number. I used the # as an example earlier because that symbol literally means "number" though I've also seen other symbols in used in place of an actual number including but not limited to ? and *. The idea being for this symbol to act as a place holder for the changing value of the card.

    The card would include text that clearly tells you that this value is = to a specific thing like the number of cards in play.

    Just to give an example from another game. The cards usually have actual numbers on them but a few special cards just had a * in place of where it's value should of been. When you read the card it would say something if you have others of this card in your hand you play them all this turn. The value of this card is equal to the number of cards in play. Others might say something like the value of this card is equal to amount of damage on your character or the number of spaces between your characters. (It's not just a card game, there's also a physical board with representations of the characters so the game has some tragedies that revolve around strategically moving your character to different points in the battle field.)

    Anyway whenever there is a literal actual number... such as 1... and there is no instruction given what so ever that this symbol is meant to represent a different number... that makes it static. The 1 is going to stay a 1 unless otherwise specified. And I do not see anything on the card that specifies that 1 changing to a 2 or a 3. It simply says that the value is +1 for each trailer which literally means to add +1 for each trailer and that's it. There is no other instruction beyond that but you keep doing an extra step beyond the given instructions.

    The only thing I don't understand is why you're doing that extra step?

    You assert that the attack value is not that static 1 printed on the card, that it is instead a changing value based on the number of Cargo Trailers in play.

    I asked you where does it say this?

    Your answer was on the card which is wrong as the card shows a static value of 1 not a changing value based on the number of cargo trailers in play.

    You have not demonstrated how the 1 is not static. You have no demonstrated a changing value based on the number of cargo trailers in play. You have failed to show me anything that supports your assertions. You just assert things that clearly aren't there.

    You're right to a point... until you take that extra step that the card never actually tells you to do and then you're wrong. At least I can see how you got the wrong answer... I just can't see why you thought you were suppose to multiple the number of cargo trailers by itself when nothing tells you to do that part.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  17. CybertronianFan

    CybertronianFan Well-Known Member

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    No, I just friggin circled it for you for clarity and you STILL refuse to see it. IT doesn't say +1 attack each. It say +1 for every Trailer on it. EACH Trailer card says the character gains +1 attack for EVERY Trailer on it. If it has 3 trailers on it and each individual trailer says it has +1 attack for every trailer on the character, then the character gets +3 atk from each trailer. You keep harping it's simple math, yet this simplicity still eludes you.

    Maybe you should re-examine you reading your math and reading comprehension skills. This way you wouldn't repeat nor stump yourself as much as your struggling with Cargo Trailer.

    Because that's how the card works. It's a mystery to you because you apparently can't thoroughly read.

    I have, but you're being ridiculously obtuse about it.

    Apparently you've never played Magic the Gathering, where there are a plethora of cards that state "this gains +1/+1 for each (x trait name here) in play". Those cards keep growing each time another of (x trait name) card enters play.

    I'm going to say this one ... last ... time. LOOK UP EVERY REFERENCE regarding Cargo Trailers and the amount of ATK they provide. If my word alone doesn't convince you, maybe seeing practically everyone saying it because they realize how the card works will change your mind. On that note I am done with this conversation. I cannot help you if you refuse to see past that blinder you refuse to lift.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  18. That Guy

    That Guy Well-Known Member

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    +1 for each Cargo trailer is not a static value. It's directly referencing EACH cargo trailer in play in the card text. "The upgraded character has +1 for each Cargo Trailer on it." This is provided by each cargo trailer separately.

    You put one Cargo Trailer on and count.

    You have 1 cargo trailer so that is 1 cargo trailer giving +1.

    Put a second on on and recount.

    Now you have 2 cargo trailers, so the first cargo trailer sees that you have 2 cargo trailers and gives +2. The second cargo trailer also sees that you have 2 cargo trailers and gives you +2.

    Now put a third on and recount.

    First Cargo trailer sees you have 3 cargo trailers and gives your character +1 for each of those 3, or +3. The second sees you have 3 cargo trailers and gives your character +1 for each of those 3, or +3. The third sees you have 3 cargo trailers and gives your character +1 for each of those 3, or +3. So now your character has +9.

    That's how the designers say it works in previous rules roundups early in the game life. That's how judges have ruled it works in organized play, that's how the community agrees it works otherwise it would end up being one of the worst cards in the game. No pips and a static +1 that you can't fish and have to spend 3 upgrades to get to a +3 is awful.
     
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  19. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime System Pride

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    You circled where is says +1. I see the +1 I just showed you how 1x3=3 not 6. What I asked you to show me is where it says +3? I can't refuse to see something you never showed me. No where in that circle does it say that.

    Yes it does.

    You just said it didn't say that now you say it does. Make up your mind.

    Right which equals a total of 3.

    Right.

    I understand the math perfectly. What I don't understand is why you keep changing to an entirely different math problem out of no where when nothing on the card says to do that.

    +1 each is still just +1 each. 1x3=3 or 1+1+1=3

    For some inexplicable reason you think +1 each means 3x3=9 or 3+3+3=9 That would be +3 each not +1

    I've asked you multiple times to show me where it says 1 changes to the number of cards in play and doesn't just stay as a static value of 1. You have not done that.

    You said reading twice. And my reading and math skills are just fine.

    3 cargo trailers with a value of +1 attack each equals a total attack value of +3, THAT'S IT!

    Unless "1" is not actually a 1 but merely a place holder for a changing value based on the number of cards in play which is the ONLY way you can come to the total of +9 as you've been doing then either your math is wrong or you need to show me where it says to do that.

    The only thing written on that card is "1" so until you show me something that says that is just a place holder for a changing value I'm going to treat it exactly as it's written on the card... as a 1.

    Says you.

    READ WHAT? Nothing on the card says what you assert it does. I've read the card and it does not say that. It's a mystery to me because you seemingly reading a rule that isn't printed on the card itself and refusing to show me where you're getting your information from.

    You assert that +1 is only a static number if it's written in the corner of the card but a +1 written in the text of the card isn't static. As far as I can see it's still a +1 no matter where on the card it's printed. I keep asking you to show me where this rule you seemingly made up is written and all you've done is continue to make the same assertions without showing the evidence I've asked for. You criticize my reading but there's literally nothing to read as you still haven't shown me anything other than the original +1 on the card itself. I'm asking for where in the rule book it says that +1 isn't static not to simply show me the same card I've already read. Because it sure as hell does not say that on the actual card so if it is written some where it must be in the rule book for the game.

    Stop simply making assertions without evidence and just show me the proof I asked you for that proves your claim.

    No you haven't because the card does not say that.

    You are correct. So is that were you're getting your info from? Magic? Cause that's an entirely different card game... made by the same company but that doesn't automatically mean that the same rules are going to apply here.

    The burden of proof is on you. I've asked you for proof multiple times and you refuse to provide it. It's not my job to provide evidence for your assertions.

    Going to stop you right there. If your word doesn't convince me what makes you think anyone else asserting the same thing would? I'm asking you for EVIDENCE not more assertions of the same claim. I don't give a crap about what you or anyone else BELIEVES. I only care about proven facts. Some sort of official text in the games rules or from someone who actually made the game that says that's how it works because nothing on the card says to do that.

    There's no blinder to lift. I've asked you to show me where it says to do that. All you've done is either make baseless assertions, point at the card that doesn't say any such thing on it, or tell me to look it up myself. You CAN help me if you just do what I asked you to but you refuse to show me any evidence of your claims. So I am done with this conversation. Until you prove me with something that actually backs up your claims and I mean something official not just more assertions from either yourself or other players. I'm done with baseless assertions. It should be really easy for you to just show me supporting evidence if you were correct but you refuse to do it.

    I'm going to ask you the same thing. Show me where it says that.

    Right +1 for each of the 3 cargo trailers.

    1+1+1=1

    1x3=3

    THAT'S IT! There's nothing more after that. There's nothing that indicates "1" is a place holder for the number of cards in play. So there's no additional multiplication after that point that you keep taking on for no discernable reason.

    Correct.

    That's it you're done counting.

    And again that's it, you're done.

    Why are you still counting? You don't need to do this part. Nothing on the card says to do that.

    3 Cargo trailers each with a value of 1 is 3, that's it. You don't count them three times each you're just counting 1 each.

    Where did they say that?

    More assertions without evidence.

    Well there are other cards in the OP that do exactly the same thing. Or are the saying it's bad if we can't agree how it works... which we already seem to be doing because it's not clearly stated to work that way and you're not showing me anything that says otherwise.

    Again there are other cards listed in the OP that do exactly the same thing so what do you think about those cards?

    I wouldn't really call it aweful. I mean +3 seems to be one of the higher attack values in the game anyway. Honestly +9 seems over powered in this game. There are characters you could take out super easily with a +9. Sure it would take you three turns to get there but then you can start one shotting characters off the board. A lot of the attack values are kept low because of that whole flipping mechanic. Setting the attack value too high would make it far too easy and not really fun to play.
     
  20. That Guy

    That Guy Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I think I see where you're misunderstanding is. You are only reading the text box of one of the cargo trailers when you have all three on a character. You need to read and apply each text box individually wheneve a new trailers is applied the effect is continuous unlike Focus Fire. So the effect applies x times, where x is the current number of cargo trailers, and the effect is y where y is the current number of cargo trailers.

    +9 is a strong effect, but it's balanced because of the unlikelyhood of getting to apply it without a green pip. You have to try and draw or reclaim the card and then draw it to get the ability. I can only either point you to the organized play judges from PPG or the Energon Invitational, ask you to ask the question to Scott/Ken directly via a rules roundup, or point you to the other community members like Wreck'n'Rule, Vector Sigma, PoweredbyPrimus , but I don't think there is anything else I can do to show you that it's +9.

    What is the verdict on Cargo Trailer? : TransformersTCG

    Is Cargo Trailer worth it? : TransformersTCG

    Cargo trailer how does it work exactly? : TransformersTCG

    Trucks + Car Decklist : TransformersTCG

    Focus Fire math! : TransformersTCG

    As much as I hate to link to Wossy he's the only one that I think took the time to break the card down (because everyone else was able to evaluate it for what it really is)

     
    Last edited: May 2, 2020