MTMTE #32 discussion

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by Omegashark18, Aug 26, 2014.

  1. Rork

    Rork Fruitloop Multipuck

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    I think the callback to Chaos Theory is quite important. Megatron is now finding it hard to justify his actions in the name of 'Freedom' even though his motives were genuine.

    It's possible that he will eventually clash with Galvatron over what being a Decepticon means. Megatron's desire for freedom and equality is what got the likes of Ravage on board, and Megs has clearly had enough of conflict...unlike Galvatron (the dyed in the wool conqueror).
     
  2. GingerSynapse

    GingerSynapse Well-Known Member

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    Loved this issue. Goddamn do I love Milne's art.

    I'm with the rest thinking that was a pretty clean cut and that the DJD may have Overlords head and spark on life support someplace where they can take their time mentally brutalizing him.

    I also love the Nightbeat/Nautica interchange, and when Nautica refers to Ravage as a "she" and a panel later both Megatron and Skids refer to Ravage as a "he". But I'm not gonna try to unpack that on this thread, it was just something I liked as it shows Nautica just has a different perspective on some 'bots.

    So I don't really have much to contribute to the theories right now. I think Drift would rather die than be forced to kill one of this friends, I think Rewind may have just been able to successfully hide (though that really isn't in his temperament, is it, as it's already been shown that he jumps right on the front lines when there's a fight, much to CD's dismay), I love the quantum theory, can't wait to see where Roberts takes it.
     
  3. GogDog

    GogDog Logic's wayward son Veteran

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    We need a spinoff comic called "My Name is Megatron," where he travels the galaxy, righting bot's he's wronged like Jason Lee.
     
  4. Meister5

    Meister5 Lost Light-er

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    I think he's genuine...but it's so much more complex than that. He's genuinely had a change of heart but I think he still values the principles that led him to forming the Decepticons. He's just come to realize that he'd become a monster in pursuit of those goals and becoming an Autobot is his way of massively backpedaling. I think the Autobot badge for him is a symbol of his desire to change but in his mind he doesn't quite associate with them as a group. He was quite clearly forced to renounce and disband the Decepticons and in this issue when he tells Skids "you made me burn it" he's referring to Autobots but conspicuously excluding himself.

    I loved his conversation with Ravage in this issue and how emotional it was. It feels like Megatron is having this robotic mid-life crisis and trying to redefine himself. I'm looking forward to more on Megatron's backstory and motivations.

    That art. So much of this story is told through the pictures alone. Combine it with the dialogue and it's like mind = blown.

    The 'she' was a nice touch. I love seeing Nautica interact with the other members of the crew :D 

    I don't think that Drift would ever kill Ratchet and Hound but that the DJD would make him feel like he'd betrayed them. His hand on the sword in Hound looked like it was placed there. As for Rodimus, he did have his expression changed after death and we still don't know exactly what happened to him. A mercy killing with a hot blade? Maybe?

    Magnus' armor has those attention deflectors. I think it makes sense that Rewind managed to hide in it. Thinking about it now, what if Rewind was the one to pull Minimus out of the Magnus armor, recognizing him as a bot related to Dominus Ambus?

    Can't wait until the next issue and some answers :) 
     
  5. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    I would totally read that. Each issue ends with a picture of his list. And he's assisted by Fat Tankor
     
  6. gregles

    gregles quintesson

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    Just an aside to an earlier point of rewind hiding using those attention things in the magnus armour, didn't the D.J.D. have a sparkeater pet that could sniff out survivors like ravage did?
     
  7. JudgeDeliberata

    JudgeDeliberata Majestrix

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    It was a very good issue which was somewhat hurt by its own hype. Not so much that I feel it was unfulfilling, but the impact of the deaths would have been greater had I not been led to believe from the solicit and Alex Milne's tweets that this was going to be a gut-wrenching, horrific issue that would make me uncomfortable (didn't he mention someone's head and spine being ripped out, or was that for 33?). As it was, I don't feel like anything here comes close to delivering the level of visceral shock as Ambulon's death did. Seeing aftermath is just different - morbid and unpleasant, but the impact is lost somewhat, especially when we know it'll all be resolved in the long term.

    The issue had a lovely creepy atmosphere, however, and the Megatron/Ravage exchange was the big payoff for me. That was marvelous.

    I'm really feeling like when Tarn's number comes up, someone, maybe Megs, will remove his transformation cog and he'll actually go into a fit of withdrawal that'll kill him.
     
  8. GogDog

    GogDog Logic's wayward son Veteran

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    Just think about it like the movie Aliens. One girl managed to survive against all odds. They killed the entire crew, its very possible that one small guy hiding manged to barely make it.
     
  9. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    check out Mainframe and Helex.
     
  10. Space Jawa

    Space Jawa Cybertronian

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    Maybe this has been shown in a previous issue from before I started reading, but oddly enough one of the things I wonder about the most from this issue is "Making someone eat their own brain?"

    Because...to quote...that doesn't sound physically possible!
     
  11. The Deej

    The Deej Well-Known Member

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    I'm not entirely sure it's a method of execution more as it is a "display piece." From the scene of Ratchet, Drift, and Hound, I'd say Helex specifically placed them like that. They're all sitting peacefully (except for Ratchet who as near as I can tell was showing that he was unarmed). Megatron also mentions that they all still have their T-Cogs, so they were definitely left out of Tarn's harvest. The only other two corpses (that we saw so far) left out of this harvest were Magnus and Tailgate, but I think their injuries imply their T-Cogs would have been damaged, so they'd just leave the corpse there.

    I think Helex does that specifically to leave a big flashing sign that says "The DJD were here." It only took Megatron one look before he immediately checked to see if Ratchet was force fed his brain.
     
  12. Thelonicon

    Thelonicon Well-Known Member

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    Remember the brain module is such a small part of a Transformer's head even massive head trauma does not guarantee its destruction.

    Maybe there is enough slack on the connections that it can be removed far enough that it fits in the mouth. Or maybe the DJD carry around a set of brain module extension cords specifically for this purpose. :lol 
     
  13. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Well.

    That was pretty good... if somehow... maybe a little underwhelming? I don't think this issue landed with as much weight as I might have liked. Some of that was expectations... I was honestly expecting something a lot creepier. Considering all the nastiness in these pages, that sounds kind of funny, but somehow it didn't make my skin crawl like I was expecting/hoping.

    Part of this is because it's all taking place in a quantum anomaly free-retcon zone. It's a documented fact that when freed from the shackles of continuity, comics always go for the "absolute worst case scenario".. which sort of makes the outcome less affecting than it might be if it had been written the same way monthly ongoing stories are. I call it the "What If...?" effect. :) 

    The other reason is that, for about two years now, I think most of us have been expecting the DJD to show up ANY TIME ALREADY. I mean seriously... what issue was it when they said "Hey, let's go get Overlord!", and we said "Oh shit!"... and then... nothing.

    The thing is, out of sight is not out of mind. Their shadow has been hanging over the series for a while, so now when they finally show up (in flashback no less), it's kind of like... oh, okay. I guess drilling out peoples' eyes and feeding them their brains is pretty awful... but they didn't outdo my expectations. :) 

    I felt a bit the same when Overlord broke free... so much anticipation, but then when the waste oil hit the fan, we lost one adorable little guy, got an "aftermath splash page", and an Ultra Magnus fakeout death. It wasn't quite the slaughterhouse I'd been afraid of. But hey, fair is fair... I don't thrive on character death, so I can dig it.

    But it's becoming clear to me that building anticipation is one of Roberts' great strengths... but that often makes the payoff hard to pull off with according impact.

    Maybe I was just expecting something a lot more gothic, a lot more grotesque, a lot more disturbing and moody... but that's more on me (and perhaps the publicity) than the book itself.

    Lastly, another factor that sort of undermined the weight of this issue is... DIGILAUT'S DAMN THEORY!!! You magnificent bastard... you spoiled us all! :D 

    When he floated this theory a month or so back, I was like... damn, that really works! The problem is that Roberts has been very forcefully trying to steer us towards a time-travel explanation, so that the eventual quantum reveal hits harder. His characters all jumped on board the time-travel idea, but meanwhile here on the forums, thanks to Digilaut, we readers are waaaay ahead of the game, and instead we're kind of looking at supposedly brilliant characters like Nightbeat and Nautica and thinking "geez... you guys are a bit slow, aren't you?" :lol 

    BUT... still, all of this is splitting hairs. The truth is, this is a pretty solid issue all around. There are some good character moments, lots of Roberts' signature small details, great art, some dramatic twists... it's hard to really make a serious complaint. Good stuff, James m'boy..! :thumb 

    Yeah, this is pretty much bang on how I feel.

    "ZOMG HERE COME THE FEELZ!!!"

    Yeah, I hear ya. :lol 

    As if this series needed any more WHObait. :) 

    I really really really hope we find out something awful about Nautica soon, because she's starting to become that annoying type of character who seems designed specifically to appeal to us geeks, and it feels just a little pandering. :p 

    All the horror on the previous pages and it ends with that beautiful last image. Poor Rewind's probably already traumatized for life and Megatron just picked him up...a Megatron with an Autobot badge. He'll at least be very confused. Can't wait for next issue![/QUOTE]

    I can't see that, but as mentioned earlier, I could totally see him being left behind as a shell-shocked "witness" to the DJD's brutality. They are all about the theater of suffering, about managing their image, etc... with Rewind, they might have found the equivalent of a video camera sitting around, and decided to make a movie of it.

    Considering what Overlord's excesses did to Grimlock's state of mind (maybe a stretch... I figured Grimlock could handle the nastiness), I can only imagine what kind of mess Rewind is right now.

    The other possibility is that Rewind pulled a Newt, and was hiding the whole time... which probably would still leave him in a state of shock.

    There's a third possibility... that the supposed mole in the DJD secretly let him live... maybe to convey some message back to high command, or whatever...

    Remember how in the Sparkeater incident, Rodimus lost his forearms (sealed inside the quantum engine)? So what if on this ship, he tried something similar, but lost half his head instead?

    To open up another disturbing possibility... the Sparkeater was sealed up inside the engines, right?

    The same engines that are now totally ruptured... hmm...?

    :eek: 

    Poor guy. We forgot all about him. Maybe he's on one of the other escape crafts by himself, wondering what the heck happened.

    Hm... that also means that guys who left the Lost Light after the first voyage kind of dodged a bullet, right? Good for you, Cosmos!

    On the other hand, LL2 Cosmos would probably be the crewmember with the highest likelihood of escaping the DJD slaughter... so there could be potentially TWO Cosmoses flying around out there. :D 

    These are all very distinct and likely possibilities. However, since I don't believe Roberts would embark on THAT degree of wholesale slaughter (or be allowed to), I'm pretty sure they'll find a way to set things -mostly- right.

    I was wondering the same thing, but it also seems unlikely that events would have transpired the same way (or that they would have just left his briefcase sitting there). Besides, if the Sparkeater did get him, his corpse would be there no?

    Say... when did Brainstorm get zapped by Dead Universe energy again? It was a flashback, but I forget when it actually happened. Was it before the Lost Light departed?

    Yeah, that bugs me a bit. I mean, I KNOW these guys eat Phase Sixers for breakfast, but to wade through an entire ship of 300 Autobots and achieve such a solid kill rating feels like a bit much. What, the Scavengers are spunky enough to throw them off, but none of the Autobots on this ship are clever enough to mount a solid defense, or save the day, or even escape into space? Again, this is the "What If...?" syndrome. If your'e dealing with any kind of alternate timeline, anything that can go wrong will. Heroes automatically fail and die horribly, even if normally they would at least put up a dramatic fight. Meh.

    I suspect that's less of a specific throwback, than probably just a recurrent obsession of Roberts'. Overlord had drill fingers too for some reason, and was shown chainsawing off Fort Max's limbs remember? I think Roberts just has a sick fixation on drills and chainsaws as implements of torture, so he throws them in to create a visceral jolt whenever he can. :) 

    HOLY CRAP. That's so horrible, heartbreaking, and melodramatically wrenching that I'm almost certain it's going to happen now.... :cry 

    I kind of agree... but at the same time, the DJD IS stupidly overpowered. That's kind of the whole idea behind them. I like to think the crew would have put up a more valiant fight, and hatched a plan to somehow escape or put a hurting on the DJD... rather than just rolling over and dying. There's a whole story there that might be interesting to hear... but at the same time, the DJD are true monsters. No matter how you slice it, I think they'd cut a nasty swath through the Lost Light crew.

    There has always been a lot of speculation about how easily they apparently take out Phase Sixers. We know that Tarn is rated as being in the same class as other Decepticon "super-warriors", but that would at least imply that there would be a real fight, not a cake-walk. So do they have any special tricks? Any shutdown codes? Secret weapons?

    He also fought the Wreckers and only killed three of them. So let's not mythologize Black Shadow any more than he already has been. We don't know what went down in the fight with the 113th Battalion (or even how big an Autobot battalion is). We know he's tough because we see him holding his own against Prime, Magnus, Pyro, Hardhead, Kup, etc... but how many of those 3000 casualties were knock-off mass-produced generi-bots? Did Black Shadow manually kill each and every one of them? Does he possess some kind of WMD capability?

    But yeah... there's a lot we don't know. And unless each and every member of the DJD is "super-warrior" class, you'd think they'd at least lose a couple of guys in a campaign against that many Autobots.

    Good point!

    Also, very nice. That's absolutely something Tarn would do. :thumb 

    Yeah, but we don't know what they did with the head, do we? :wink: 

    zmog
     
  14. Kraken

    Kraken Is a vegiesaurus, Lex. Veteran

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    Tbf, for all I've said about the DJD being capable of wading through the entire crew, we don't know that they actually did slaughter every single bot on board. We've got confirmed about 20 - 30 deaths, there's an awful lot of crew members unaccounted for. They may well have managed to escape the carnage on the shuttles.
     
  15. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    After the conversation with Ravage, it seems like he really is being genuine.

    I have to admit, while it's an interesting development, I've been having a lot of trouble with the "Autobot Megatron" story, mainly because Megatron is coming across as far too reasonable, acquiescent and personable. I like the idea of playing against the black and white Con/Bot dichotomy, and showing them as "people". We know Megs started out with righteous intentions. We know he was intellectual. But somehow, tempering that was the awareness that Megatron has also always been a bit of a sociopath, a live wire with a tendency to get swept up by violent emotions. That's one aspect of the characterization that I liked from Megatron:Origin... the fact that his circumstances feed both his better impulses and his worst ones.. that as he gets swept up in events, he becomes increasingly willing to go to extremes. I have a hard time accepting someone who has had absolute power for so long turning around and becoming so humble and... "human".

    Still... it yields interesting scenes, like the one between him and Ravage (admittedly, this is just because I love seeing Ravage get dialogue).

    There's something else that this scene makes me question... and it's more a structural story question...

    If Megatron is entirely earnest, then the moment in the last issue where he speaks to Ravage through "hand" serves no real narrative purpose. Their secret collusion quickly becomes redundant with this scene this issue.

    Knowing Roberts, this then means something else. Roberts has a tendency to seed his stories with a concept or idea just ahead of it becoming relevant or important to the plot. He tends to make a point of laying the groundwork just before a twist.

    So... this means that it's about to become important that either Megatron or Ravage know how to speak "hand". I'm not sure what this might herald, but it's been highlighted for a reason, I suspect.

    Hm, that's an interesting point. I like the idea that the attention deflectors helped him stay hidden, but the idea of Rewind recognizing Minimus Ambus is fascinating.

    Good point, though Ravage didn't sense Rewind at first, so maybe there's an additional wrinkle we don't know about yet.

    zmog
     
  16. Stryker055

    Stryker055 History Man Extraordinare

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    My guess is that Rewind was hiding in the Magnus Armor the whole time, using the attention deflectors to avoid being found; then when the lightning hit the armor, the deflectors shorted out, causing Ravage to smell Rewind and Megatron to notice his camera light.
     
  17. Anguirus

    Anguirus Well-Known Member

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    We at least know that Black Shadow has WMD capability because we've seen him scrape a planet clean...as I said, the whole Phase Sixer concept has holes.

    Interestingly enough, when the Wreckers went up against Overlord he only killed one! However he defeated Guzzle, Perceptor, and Kup, and crippled Springer. FWIW. The handwave for how the Autobots can hold the line against these guys seems to devolve upon Wreckers, Dinobots, and Optimus' personal retinue. And yeah, we've had it established finally that constructed-cold warborn were being fed into the meat grinder during the war so that handwaves us some big ol' numbers.

    I think though that as some other posters have said, unless this Lost Light blew up while the DJD were ON it, then there is some account for the Autobots being scattered, injured, and fighting poorly. Also, we tend to presume that the lucky breaks always go for the Autobots, but just one or two for the Decepticons in this universe and it's easy to imagine them walking away with relatively minor injury.

    (Tarn is bad enough, but Kaon appears to have Shrapnel's G1 power, a devastating area-effect paralyzer at minimum. If the Autobots used the same tactics that they did against Overlord that would have been...bad.)
     
  18. Meister5

    Meister5 Lost Light-er

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    There's so much to read into in those final panels. With Rewind back it seems like the perfect setup to find out more about those lingering plot threads concerning him. Chromedome did briefly bring up Dominus Ambus not too long ago and maybe we could learn the significance of Rewind's "UV allergy". I can't wait to hear Rewind's side of the story. The next issue can't come soon enough.

    That's along the lines of what I was thinking. That lightning is strange though. I wonder if there's more to it.
     
  19. TheSpartanD

    TheSpartanD Minicon Orphanage Owner

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    UV light is the only way you can see the entry points of a Mnemosurgeon's needles...

    The lightning is the result of some kind of quantum reaction, so it could do all sorts of crazy things.
     
  20. Majestic

    Majestic Majie

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    Okay, I have quite a few thoughts on this, so sorry in advanced for the rambling


    What about the um, mini-Minimus Ambus? I know its probably safe to say that the blast that went through him would have taken him out, but looking at the Ambus body they found it was his er, outer Ambus, and while hard to tell whats in his upper chest cavity, but it doesn't look like a body...

    Also with him, his body and armor had bloody pools but... If he was pulled out where his interior body was lying shouldn't there have been a trail? I know that could be an error but still seems odd. Maybe it was intentional? Or a hint? And how far apart were his bodies anyway? Obviously they weren't both in plain view at first, so why so far apart that someone who didn't know is identity might think it was 2 separate kills?

    I loved how Megatron started defending himself(his "future" self?) and it fell apart immediately.

    It was interesting how when Nautica and Nightbeat were talking about relationships how he referred to both the Conjunx and Amica Endurae as "elective kinship" It feels like that is implying something, but I'm not sure what, it could just be a reference to what their concept of family is, or even that a third "elective kinship" relationship is the sibling-style relationships we have seen in the past(and possibly parental-figure/kid type aswell). I dunno, just a thought.

    I don't know why they expected to find anything in the briefcase with the locks damaged, even though it now seems it isn't what's in the case but the case itself, OR it has lingering energy from what was in it.

    Not much else to add about the Megatron and Ravage conversation that hasn't been said.

    The thing about some of the bodies, especially Ratchet Drift and Hound's bodies, begs the question... Who were they being staged FOR?

    Something else a little odd, Tailgate's body... There is splattering behind him like he was pushed back and impaled... But it's covered with his energon like he was impaled from behind the wall... Was he suppoed to be impaled from behind and killed, THEN huung up on the wall? It just seems odd.

    Riptide asked how you un-see something? I think that's just Mnsurgery...

    I liked how Skids got progressively more freaked out when he put his arm in the dead bot, and worse when he pulled out his arm (was it covered in oil or was the energon just especially darkly colored?).

    Anyone else think Nightbeat looked a little like he couldn't fathom what could be more important that the bizzare thing he'd found. But I'm glad that it is an alternate ship, I thought that was where they were going, saw the long theory with an actual real explanation and then WANTED it to go that way, glad it did.

    The DJD finially made a reappearance, and I liked the way Getaway described it, "Its a game Nautica- an old wartime favorite. When someone shouts DJD you have to find your friends and run like hell." While I understand why they'd be immediately jumpy, we don't have any good idea of how long ago the ship was attacked, it could have been 2 years ago, it could've just ended 2 hours ago for all we (or they) know. Actually I think I just answered my own question.

    Incedently, when exactly did Riptide fix the Rodpod? When they were waiting for Nightbeat and Nautica?

    So glad to see Rewind again, even if its not exactly "our" Rewind. I'm almost wondering if maybe with such a large assault the DJD were running arouund doing "cleanup" for a while as survivors scrambled around, maybe Rewind was injured and Chromedome stuffed him in there? He just seemed more or less immobile, so unless he's been hiding for long enough to run low on power, that could be how he got there... Also, and I could be wrong, but I didn't see Chromedome's body, so what happened to him? Probably just in a part of the ship they didn't look in but still, curious.

    I kinda feel like Rewind 2 and Chromedome might not necessarily reunite as a couple, they each lost "their" verion of the other, and to a degree at least one of them may just think of the other as "this new guy that shares his face"

    Thought I also like the suggestion that they would get together and then "our" Rewind would turn up okay, because that would be amusing. While I can also see them having to sacrifice Rewind to get their guys back, I like Rewind and would prefer he stays alive.


    Okay, I think I'm done, until I think of something else to add later.