In my opinion, Transformers G1 holds up pretty well. I don't get people who say it's "ironically good" or "bad". Maybe my professional life gives me a different perspective, but it's hard to make good television in any era. The dialogue and voice acting are top-notch. Not the only time they've had both (Beast Wars), and the animation was sometimes very good, although the quality varied wildly (for reasons most are aware of here).

The one I really dislike is Transformers Animated. I've been rewatching that are many other cartoons from that era (Wolverine and the X-Men), and that stuff is bland trash frankly. It has a lot of fanservice in it, but the story choices are very juvenile. The arc given to ostensibly "adult" characters are arcs you would expect teenagers to go through. Compare that with the G1 or Beast Wars characters, they are much more settled in their personalities, which is a decidedly more adult thing.

It's honestly hard to put my finger on what happened to many cartoons between the 90s and now, but the animated series has fallen far, and Animated represents that transition. If you watch 90s X-Men for example there was kissing between Scott and Jean, whereas in X-Men Evolution, the big payoff was them hugging and cuddling. Fun, but juvenile. Instead of drinking beer (something depicted in 80s and 90s cartoons), Wolverine bought water. Transformers Animated has a lot of these weird, subtle changes. Largely no guns (in a war, I might add). Decepticons that appear like dumb High School bullies rather than adults who make their own decisions. A home base that is more epic video game room than one that provides any real utility. There's just a lot of that in Animated and other shows, and it prevents any future enjoyment, but also makes me wonder if they were ever really that good to begin with. Plus I notice a drop off in voice quality (while video games, conversely have been killing it in the VA department since). Contrary to popular belief I don't consider "plot heavy" storytelling to be "more mature". If anything it's a way hack writers cover for much bigger problems, such as the inability to write decent, well rounded characters.

 

The G1 cartoon is sort of mixed for me. The first season in particular I found to be pretty bland, but it started getting better from season to season, which is why I consider season three to be better than the previous two.

And I agree with you, in Animated, I really felt the 'cons were kinda pathetic (with Starscream being the only one that felt like a bigger threat), and it has lots of mishandled stuff. I don't mind plot heavy stuff (in fact, one of my favorite TF shows is Beast Machines) or a more juvenile tone (since RiD 2001 is also one of my favorite TF shows), but honestly, Animated's core cast was just not good enough to carry the plot. Optimus was the only one that I liked (though again, I felt his role should have been given to Rodimus), Bumblebee is an irritating little shite, Bulkhead just doesn't leave any impression on me (unlike the Prime version, which I felt wasn't perfect, but it was an improvement), Prowl... I felt he was basically a blander version of Drift and Ratchet... he also kinda irked me. They could have used a much rarer, less established character for his role (Siren, anyone?), but they just used Ratchet and removed that likeability the G1 version had.

 

I'm a big G1 fan, personally, partially because of nostalgia, partially because of my father's nostalgia, and partially because the show has great designs, good characters (given how large the cast was), and very good voice acting. Thus, I tend to agree with you. Episodes like "Auto Berserk", "Auto-Bop", "Heavy Metal War", "Masquerade", and "Starscream's Brigade" are just as enjoyable as they were when I was nine. That being said, I also enjoy mocking the plot holes and animation errors G1 had...so I like it both in general AND ironically. It's a good show (especially for the time period), but making fun of its flaws is also a lot of fun.

Ironically enough, the other show I have nostalgia for is Animated (actually the first show I ever saw). For that reason, I like it a lot, but I have no idea how much of that is nostalgia vs the show actually being good. It has fewer plot holes and animation errors than G1 did, but it also wasn't being produced in an era where cartoon episodes were expected to be produced in four months (like G1).

 

It's not that I feel they are pathetic, it's that the characters are very trope-heavy, and resemble what you might find in Saved by the Bell or something.

Optimus Prime is the Zach Morris Type.
Sentinel the AC Slater type
Bumblebee is your sceerch
Ultra Magnus is the principal
Megatron the evil authority figure
Starscream is the lead bully
Lugnut and Blitzwing are a bit like your Bulk and Skull from Power Rangers, etc.

These characters would be more at home in a high school comedy or dramedy. Whereas if you watch the 90s X-Men cartoon, it resembles a show more like X-Files, with one kid-appeal character to anchor it in the Saturday Morning cartoon line-up (Jubilee, who is rarely the focus). Or if you watch BTAS it's obviously a noir, detective type show. The 'High Schoolifying' of characters was really prevalent at this time. Kim Possible, Ben 10, X-Men Evolution, and even abandoned projects like Gotham High (which I think later gave rise to Batman Beyond - which, in my opinion, isn't as quite as good as you remember).

It's not that they never produced good shows with this approach, but it certainly chokes off any broad appeal, and the shows seem very mindless at times, or unable to tackle any greater issues beyond "do you think [so and so] likes me".

Fault G1 all you want, but there's a ton of Reagan-era political subtext in that show. Meanwhile, in a show set in future Detroit there is almost none.

 

There's an interesting video on Youtube that gets flak by Patrick H. Willems called "Plot holes don't matter" and I'm inclined to agree.

It comes from the misconception that a piece of film's job is to replicated reality, and of course, that isn't true. It's also something that doesn't make or break a film. Does Endgame's time travel make any sense? Not really, but who cares? It's a fun movie with great actors and great characters.

As you note the show had/has consistently good characters and great voice acting, the animation for its day was also top-notch.

 

Yeah, high-schoolifying stuff is also a big reason why I'm not fond of Spectacular Spider-Man. Everyone seems to love that show and when I saw it, I just couldn't stand it.

Then again, I always have been more into stuff that isn't widely appreciated like Beast Machines, so I think the constant praise that TFA or TFP get really tends to wear me down and make me dislike them even more than I really do.

 

Well at least in Spider-Man's case he often is a high school student. Although I think the 90s show had him in college.

I don't get the same feels for Spectacular Spider-Man either. It's pretty good, but I think the follow ups are so atrociously bad, I can understand why so many people are nostalgic for what could have been.

 

Honestly, I always preferred Spider-Man to be a college student like he was in Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, the 90's Spider-Man and the 70's live-action Spider-Man show.

But yeah, I guess I must be the only person in the world who totally hated SSM.

 

Indeed.

I'm actually inclined to agree. I grew up with these "High-Schoolified" shows and... there was just some sort of cringey quality to them. Especially after 8-year-old me found out about G1 on Netflix.

 

I really have to rewatch it because I just see Youtube retrospectives all over the place. It ended so quickly, it was tough for me to remember it. What I saw, I remember thinking was pretty darn good. It's clear they nailed some characterization. I also remember the Enforcers showing up, and I can't love that enough. The freaking Enforcers man! Talk about loving them some Lee-Dikto Spidey.

Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends though is highly overlooked and underrated. Product of it's time, sure. The voice acting on the periphery got weird (Australian Wolverine being a great example). The chronic censorship hurt too. However the show really envisioned the expansive and interconnected Marvel Universe, and it deserves a lot of credit for that, even if it messed up a lot of characters along the way.

It's weird for me because I blog reviews for films like Parasite and have some great Quora posts on "head"ier films - but I am by no means an elitist. I think a movie like Sonic The Hedgehog can be just as spectacular an achievement as an Oscar movie. Yet that high school fad, I can't explain what is cringey about it, or why it is bad, but it just was.

If I were to hazard a guess it was that it makes/made it hard for them to explore deeper subjects. Imagine if in X-Men Evolution you had that shot from the 90s cartoon with the gravestones, the grim futures, or the violent alt-right mutant hate groups? That would have made the "Scott/Duncan/Jean Grey" dramadramadrama seem petty?

I need to do a deep dive into the censorship and rules around cartoons one day because I detect a shift in the rule between the mid to late 90s and '00s.

 

I can agree. Something changed, for sure.

If you do, could I take a look at it? I'm kind of curious myself.

 

Overrated:Weak transformers
Underrated:Cosmic entitys

 

Overrated: IDW 1.0 comics and toys
Underrated: Generation 2 comics and toys (not including the weird cartoon G1 cube remix thing, that thing is just not right)

 

I do admit to having a soft spot for the rapping commercials (and the neon-colored toys):
Onslaught is one metamorphin' DUDICUS!  

 

Never understood why so many G1ers go crazy over Sideswipe. I see how his design appeals to people: His deep red paintjob and broad, car-hood chest make him look both heroic and yet somewhat generic. He looks like the perfect Autobot trooper. But character wise? Pretty boring, in my opinion. He likes to fight and break rules. I can’t speak to the comics, but he did damn near nothing in the cartoon. I feel like the only 84 ‘bots who got less screen time than Sideswipe were maybe Windcharger and Bluestreak.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve got a Sideswipe sitting on my shelf like everyone else does. But to me he’s a vastly overrated character.

 

Trailbreaker deserves some love and respect!

 

Honestly, I just don't get why people like Springer. I haven't read any of the Marvel UK stuff featuring him, but in every story I've seen him in so far, I just find him the blandest character around. Plus, he just has no chemistry with other characters and I just feel like he is pretty much superfluous.

I know people would say Wheelie is their least favorite G1 character, but for me, it definitely is Springer. He is the epitome of generic and boring.

 

Depth charge needs more love

 

But he has better things to do tonight than die. Isn't that good enough for you?   

 

Definitely not. I must admit, although this was quite possibly the only line of his that is decently written, and I like season three the most out of G1, I just don't like Springer as a character. Definitely the worst G1 character for me.