More Than Meets the Eye #20 Discussion

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by Tim Formas, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. justiceg

    justiceg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Posts:
    1,625
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Likes:
    +2,601
    Brainstorm and Pharma worked together at the New Institute, right? Is it possible Pharma knew what he was doing when he shot him?
     
  2. The Madness

    The Madness News Credits: -13

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2003
    Posts:
    1,762
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    282
    Likes:
    +2,299
    I don't know Smog. I'm willing to afford Prowl more leniency in his spate of failures (or inactivity). Before Chaos, the war was pretty well structured and defined by conventions and law. Such an environment was perfectly conductive for Prowl to weave plenty of threads and manipulate factors in a way which he could easily obscure from view, (Explains why we weren't witness to many). :) 
    But since Deceptigods, D-voids, spacebridges, and NAILs, as unknown and unlikely variables entered the equation, (subsequently halting the war, which had been his prime focus for millions of years), I'm not surprised that every string Prowl had became tangled and knotted.

    You could probably argue that the scale of the personal repercussions of this aren't all that apparent in the writing, or even entertaining... But all things considered, I'm actually surprised Prowl isn't a blubbering mess after having every one of his schemes wiped away in a single event.

    Normally I'm not silly enough to throw tech specs at you. But the events on Cybertron have seemingly been indicative of Prowl's ultimate crisis. Specifically because it involves a sea of disorderly civilian masses flooding in to Cybertron after an unexpected catastrophic event. As a military strategist he's way over his head in a highly political, unstructured civil mess.
    Perhaps Bombshell spared him a mental breakdown and offered a logic tangent he could follow?

    Anyway, Ive digressed too far in a MTMTE thread already. But I'm not surprised Prowl's reach has been cut short, as he seems quite reliant on a military framework (and off-world coms) to be effective. Yes, I'd like him to be an effective manipulative bastard too, but he's got a long way to go to get back there again.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2013
  3. SMOG

    SMOG Vocabchampion ArgueTitan

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    21,073
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Location:
    Robot Narnia, Quebec
    Likes:
    +5,363
    Yes and no... certainly with the end of the war, the breakdown of regular Autobot military structures, and the departure of a whole shipload of assets (Lost Light) into the void, a lot of his normal avenues might well be complicated or simply blocked. Of course, that has been one of the ongoing inconsistencies of the IDW universe as well... in Infiltration, Wreckers, and several other stories, we are given a sense of a galaxy spanning network of military bases and personnel, part of a stratified and coordinated Autobot framework that extends far beyond Cybertron. In other series, like AHM and more recently RID, suddenly those numbers and resources become awkwardly reduced to more or less a slightly extended version of the G1 cartoon cast... the proverbial rag tag, informal Autobot ranks.

    And now... well it's a bit weird. Apparently Prowl is still pulling the strings of an overarching Autobot covert ops organization, with the support of a science division that must be extremely well supplied (is there still an Institute? Where are those Thought Warfare munitions coming from?). He clearly still has an inner circle of agents that he can rely on.

    Certainly D-Void and Deceptigod are unplanned and highly irrational threats (the same threat, in fact). I could see how that might frazzle Prowl's logic centers just a bit... after all, I read the whole Chaos line of comics, and I'm still convinced it makes no sense. :p 

    However, the return of NAILS to a rebooted Cybertron? That's kind of the OPPOSITE of the kind of chaos that you're implying he can't deal with. To offer a G1 Tech Specs riposte, Prowl can "analyze any combat situation almost instantaneously and then advise on the optimal course of action." He can "observe 800 moving objects, compute their probable paths of movement, and determine the proper countermove in .05 seconds."

    In a way, the Chaos event (while itself unfathomable) did him a favour. It simplified things considerably. Multi-tasking, processing chaotic streams of data, and finding order or patterns in them is not only one of his strong points, but something he can do in mere seconds. To paraphrase a common observation in sociological science... individuals are unpredictable. Crowds however, follow patterns.

    You really think having all of his resources, reduced to one city, one population, one location, one finite inventory of friendlies, POWs and civilians... you really think THAT would be more than he could handle? Instead of running ops across multiple battlefronts, against unknown enemy forces, assimilating data from the entire war effort and having scattered personnel across the galaxy, he instead has a very finite, controlled location (not to mention the ludicrously well-informed Arcee spying for him). Sitting in the background and running the new Cybertron would be like moving from an 900-sided rubik's cube made out of fractals, to a single chessboard.

    Instead... well... we didn't really see him do much of anything beyond routing out a few Decepticon subversives, and falling into a trap.

    Now, I do agree that civilian affairs would not be his strong suit, but really, he didn't need to involve himself in any of that. "Politics" are still mostly a chain of causes and effects, objects in motion, strategy little different than the battlefield. Prowl may not understand irrational, emotional thinking, but he's had plenty of time to observe it. As Everything In Its Place demonstrated, he's already quite accustomed to operating with an undisciplined rabble, the majority of Autobots preferring to follow the most emphatic leader rather than listen to reason or follow orders. I'm not sure WHY suddenly he was incapable of sitting the shadows as before, and running his ops... other than simply because Barber said so, I guess.

    I'm just kind of tired of the potential of this character being hobbled. I see Barber's handling of Prowl as being similarly clumsy to his handling of Starscream. Both seem to be shockingly maladroit rather than canny. They are both almost completely reactive, rather than proactive, and neither really seems to have any coherent or credible plan. The transparency of their stories tends to preclude the possibility of them really surprising us with anything genuinely clever or devious. In short, they both seem kind of... well... dumb.

    Add to this the incidental pattern that is evident in recent stories... everything Prowl touches turns to shit. It's kind of sad that we had to wait this long before we finally got a decent interpretation of his character, and all he gets to do is screw up. :p 

    zmog

    zmog
     
  4. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Posts:
    9,607
    News Credits:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +5,751
    Ah yes, that does make sense. I guess we'll just have to find out where they're going with Getaway.

    I'm not sure if it was out of character? He had a pretty devastated reaction to Rumble being injured in AHM. Then again, Soundwave's character seems to change completely depending on who the current writer.

    Weren't the other Autobot bases destroyed by Decepticon invaders during the events of AHM, as seen in LSOTW?
     
  5. Infosaur

    Infosaur Ancient Cybertronian

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Posts:
    4,022
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +407
    Meanwhile, back at the Hall of Justice,,,,

    *WHOOSH* *WHOOSH* *SHHHOOOMMM*

    IDW Headquarters, Monday morning meeting:

    Roberts: "Morning, Barber. Coffee?"
    Barber: "Cheers mate, black and sugar?"
    *pours coffee*
    Roberts: "so, excited about Dark Cybertron?"
    Barber: "Am I? I finally think I've got a handle on where I want to take this book. Starscream the politician. It's a little Tom Clancy, with a bit of Clive Cussler. Sure Starscream's been in charge before, under Costa, but I think I can do better."
    Roberts: "Have you talked to Alex yet?"
    Barber: "well you keep him pretty busy on your book, but he's got some great ideas for some covers. Remember that famous picture of Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin at Yalta? Well it's gonna be Wheeljack, Shockwav,,,"
    Roberts (interupting): "So he hasn't told you yet?"
    Barber: "?"
    Roberts: "Damn,,,, well this is a might awkward,,,"
    Barber: "James,,, what did you do?"
    Roberts: "It weren't me mate? Mline just got a bit ahead of himself,,, no biggie"
    Barber: "what did YOU do?"
    Roberts: "Look the script said, 'random' deaths, I let Alex go to town a little bit."
    Barber: "WHAT,,,,the bloody hell,,, Did you two maniacs come up with?"
    Roberts: "We sorta,,, made this WMD that kills off 30% of the Cybertronian population in one panel. You know, Blaster, Mainframe, Chromedome, Spinster,,,"
    Barber: "Oh, well that's not so ba,,,,"
    Roberts: ",,,Starscream,"
    Barber:"..."
    *Inker Josh Burcham walks into the room*
    Josh: "Hey everyone, I brought Donuts!"
    Barber: "Josh, unless that's Alex's head in that box, I suggest you leave right now!"
    Josh: "oooookay."
    *pulls up TFW2005.com on his Droid and tries to figure out what the hell just happened*
    Roberts: "Are you going to steal that bit too?"
    Barber: "Just because the Bayverse fans aren't old enough to remember Se7en, doesn't get you off the hook for that stunt either."
    Roberts: "Look, I'm sorry. That was unprofessional. Look, we're both great writers, and like all great writers we keep a backup storyline in case the toyline people want a 'change in direction'."
    Barber: "Yeah, you're right, it's been a bit of a shock is all."
    Roberts: "I'll try to keep you more in the loop next time, and try to keep Alex off of Deviantart. Remember how he used to slip in fembots when he got bored?"
    Barber: "don't remind me, I'm still trying to forget that Tailgate bikini layout."
    Roberts: "Sorry about the screw up, can you flesh out your backup story by Saturday? I know you've got that Wheelie/Op[timus thing going on,,,"
    Barber: "No it's great, see I've taken interest in Hardhead, trying to make him more different from Ironhide. I've got an arc where he has to come to realize,,,"
    Roberts: "oh,,,dear."

    *PHONY SITCOM APPLAUSE*
    [END SCENE]
     
  6. Infosaur

    Infosaur Ancient Cybertronian

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Posts:
    4,022
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +407
    I just want to add that I did all that with one hand.
    My arm's in a sling, I had surgery last week.
    That was exhausting.

    I'm going to lie down now.
     
  7. WoundSave

    WoundSave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Posts:
    1,633
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    137
    Likes:
    +25
    As awesome as that sitcom interval was, one handed at that, barber is the editor of MTMTE, and given the scope of dark Cybertron , its pretty safe to say barber and Roberts have had these events plotted out long in advance .

    Which is why i wish people wouldn't be so slanderous towards barber writing on this board.

    IMO both comics are great. the writing styles different , but each suits the themes annd settings of their respective . (honestly do people wouldn't really believe Roberts sardonic witty banter would have made RID a better comic ? bumblebee prowl and starscream cracking jokes and puns while feuding from control of the planet...

    I think the Roberts writing suits the lost in space thing, and the isolation of the lost light allows him to explore a plethora of great ideas . While barber has the job of hammering out the fate of Cybertronand its inhabitants (which is more restricted position to be writing from, especially since barber is taking on the brunt of ironing out continuity errors from previous writers runs.)

    Aside. Just moved. Debt have internet yet. Hate typing on my new phone. Solve been somewhat removed from actually posting on the boards just causes too time consuming...

    But yea, why does rungs survival get a pass but wheeljack's isalready being poo-pooed ? whyWhy is bombshell actually pulling on over on prowl and slipping smaller mind control bug onto prowl such a hard sell? (OMG prowl isfallible . OMG prowl isn't the evil 'in bed with megatron asshole we wanted him to be. OMG no one on this board predicted what barberwas doing so he must be a bad writer, but Roberts faking us out is delicious and brilliant .)

    I've reread both series many times and i personally think both are amazing In their own way. Anyone who really thinks barber has done nothing of merit with RID i suggest go back and give a reread, and pay attention to details u may havmissed the first time through (like where theeexplosions originated from when prowl detonated the constructicons 'heads') intact particular instance barber faked us all out bigtime and very few people give him any credit for it.

    And smog man no disrespect intended but i cringe when i read lines 'you are almost right but' or 'yes and no (followed by reasons why 'no'). it reads to me as very patronizing , as though you think your opinion carries more weight and shines more truth on the discussion at hand than the person you are countering. And then you slip in something like its too bad barber is such a bad writer- you may not like barber writing or style or choices, but it does not objectively make him a bad writer.
     
  8. SMOG

    SMOG Vocabchampion ArgueTitan

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    21,073
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Location:
    Robot Narnia, Quebec
    Likes:
    +5,363
    It should be no surprise that I also didn't like that bit in AHM... but yeah, that's part of the problem with Soundwave. He shows so little personality much of the time, people pretty much push him wherever they want. For me it's a double no-no, because it not only implies that Soundwave isn't contemptuous scum disliked by most of his fellow Cons (as his G1 bio described him), but it also suggests that the Cassettes are less independent Decepticons than part of a little "family" with Soundwave, complete with pets. I always hated that.

    I was happy when Ravage finally got to speak in IDW... and when you look at Megatron Origin, you understand why Rumble and Frenzy would be far closer to Megatron than to Soundwave.

    Yeah, there was some hand-waving that way, brief allusions to bases being destroyed (though in LSOTW it was just G9 wasn't it?).

    It's just one of the reasons that I will always call bullshit on IDW's insistence that AHM wasn't originally conceived as an out-of-continuity series. I think McCarthy probably had a standalone script already done (or close to it), and then he just plopped a few scenes and details into it to cram it into the existing IDW continuity. When you step back from it, it's pretty much just a story that stems from the old G1 cartoon continuity, with a ragtag bunch of Autobots on Earth, not a universe-spanning military establishment as Furman had created.

    In a sense, that's what I meant... the portrayal of Autobot infrastructure has varied quite a bit in IDW, and never quite accounted for how many guys and bases would still (or should still) be out there. I also kind of gritted my teeth during Costa's run when Optimus stepped down, and the Autobots were completely in disarray, as if they didn't already have a chain of command they could rely on in such times. Suddenly it was a total democracy, which is kind of silly. Sigh...

    It's not slanderous. It's criticism... edged, often deserved criticism.

    It would have made a DIFFERENT comic... and yes, possibly a better one too. Yep.

    I think Barber deserves some credit for that, absolutely. That is something he has brought to the table. However, I think there's a limit to how much you can lean on that one contribution, and use it to fend off all criticism for other aspects of his writing.

    As for Roberts, the funny thing is that he's done far, FAR more in terms of world-building, developing Cybertronian history and culture, and playing with politics and intrigue while "isolated" in deep space, than Barber has done in his whole run up on Cybertron till now... that's my feeling. On top of that, I'd say Prowl has gotten more interesting development in MTMTE than in RID, which is also sort of funny.

    Rung's survival didn't really get a pass. Lots of people griped about the fake out, and continue to complain about the over-use of seemingly fatal trauma in Roberts' writing... and likewise, lots of people complained about Wheeljack's demise... so don't imply false inequalities where they don't exist. Both writers have had their share of criticism. If Roberts gets a little less than Barber, it might just be because he's better than Barber. Could be.

    What's significant at the moment is how Wheeljack's 'death' seems even more like cheap theatrics now. Rung's initial injury and recovery became a running plot against which other character development and stories unfolded. Wheeljack's death felt rather throwaway to begin with (basically just to add drama to the ol' "Wheeljack,Wheeljack,Beetlejuice" moment) and now seems like it's being dialed back almost immediately. Not that anyone believed he would stay dead anyway, of course.

    There's a difference between fakes that are gratifying and intuitive, and those that seem contrived or dissatisfying. You're implying that all plot twists are created equal. They aren't, obviously.

    It's not a big twist for Prowl to be "fallible". He's been nothing BUT fallible pretty much forever, so it would be nice for him to actually get a bit of credibility for once, even as a kind of anti-hero or internal antagonist for other Autobots.

    People were not necessarily hoping for Prowl to be an evil traitor (which would have also been a bit of a WTF)... they were hoping for him to have a plan, for a grander, more interesting scheme than what we'd been seeing up till then. Instead we have the Bombshell twist, which while interesting, also seemingly wipes out a year's worth of desperately-needed character development, for the sake of a HUGE TWIST that ultimately doesn't make much sense at all. *sad trumpet*

    I'm sorry, but I disagree. :p  And I will not apologize for disagreeing (although that's kind of what I just did, but you get what I mean). And when I disagree, I OBVIOUSLY put more stock in my opinion than the other person's, otherwise there's not really much point in disagreeing at all, is there? What's the point of discussing something with someone who doesn't even have faith in their own point of view?

    There is no shame in bringing firmly opposing perspectives to the table, and debating them. That's how it works.

    If I say "yes and no" it means pretty much what it says. Yes, I agree with some of your points, but No I have to differ on some issues. Obviously I don't have to explain the points of agreement since they are the same, so I move on to the points of contention.

    I firmly believe that he has certain weaknesses as a writer (some strengths too, obviously). Clearly, anything I say with certainty is a matter of my opinion, but I don't see the need of constantly mitigating that point by saying "this is only my opinion". That much should be taken as a given. And if I believe something, I'm going to say it straight up. Why would you want me NOT to acknowledge that?

    Opinions are subjective, yes, but it's kind of stupid not to believe that your own opinions are mostly right or accurate or true. An opinion should be founded on something. If you have an opinion, you should be able to back it up with sound reason, not just say "well that's my opinion, so it can't be wrong".

    I will also point out that personal preference and opinion are not necessarily the same thing. Opinions can be (and should be) based on facts or arguments... and some opinions can be "more right" than other opinions for this reason. However, some things are just a matter of "personal preference". There are many things that I could objectively argue are not really very good... but I like them anyway. It doesn't always have to be defended. People can disagree with me if they like. It goes both ways.

    Is the very idea that I might hold an opinion different from yours so offensive? Why does that make me "high and mighty?" If you disagreed with me, would that make you 'arrogant' too? Would you be keeping me down? Of course not. Maybe you shouldn't let it bother you so much... after all, we're ALLOWED to disagree with each other, and still be cool, right? :) 

    zmog
     
  9. WoundSave

    WoundSave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Posts:
    1,633
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    137
    Likes:
    +25
    Again. New phone and internet so ill be brief.

    I guess what irks me is the seemingly constant barrage of trashing of barber`s writing, compared to the seemingly the relative lack of appreciation for what he's done. Our (internet) culture tends to.focus on the negative, manifests in many ways.

    And personal.i don't think Roberts would have had handled the setting in RID better than barber has, too many players and factions, not enough freedom to explore more abstract ideas and obscure points of world building . I think they are both well situated where they are, and i enjoy each for what it is.

    On the point of opinions. Yes (and no lol) sure i live based on my opinions and outlook, as does everyone. But the experiences that shaped these opinions are unique to the individual in question. I haven't lived your life, and i don't know all the factors that would shape your opinions. Even if i disagree strongly with your opinions, i still feel very strongly that i should listen respectfully to you expressing them, and in responding whether to disagree and inquire further, be mindful to use language that demonstrates respect respect for your life experience and its function in shaping your opinions.

    At the same time, some people are just ignorant.spiteful pieces of shit , and need to be put in their place. Like uf they are sexual harassing someone or whatnot. Chances are though they have had a goodd continuum of life experience to shape them into compassionate, moral human beings .

    And smog ill.just remind you of my profession. It does force.me to try tosee th good in people, and treat people in my community with dignity and respect, because even when imo not at work i am representing the firm i work for and my profession as a whole.
     
  10. noblekale

    noblekale There can be only one!

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2003
    Posts:
    881
    Trophy Points:
    242
    Likes:
    +148
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Jumping in here on the Prowl issue, I think Getaway used circumstancial evidence to help keep his boss secret. I think Prowl IS a part of the mission, yes. But, I'm also thinking he, like the Duobots, was a handler. So, when Rodimus said "Tell me it's Prowl", he thought "ok, they won't know, it's not like we'll get to Cybertron soon, so sure, let's keep the boss secret by saying it's Prowl". Skids won't know anything, he probably knew something was wrong with the Duobots if Skids wasn't back to normal, so there's really no one who can deny it.

    For the plot twist, I was one of those hoping Prowl would have had a long and twisted plan to drag out the chaotic element in the Decepticons and coax Megatron out of hiding in the hopes of taking the Decepticons out at once. It would have kept in with his dick moves if he'd have kept everyone in the dark, and also built some kind of protective measure in the upgraded bodies. Plus, I think if Wheeljack's "death" had been part of Prowl's plan all along, it wouldn't be adding fuel to the "death doesn't matter" argument.
     
  11. SMOG

    SMOG Vocabchampion ArgueTitan

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    21,073
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Location:
    Robot Narnia, Quebec
    Likes:
    +5,363
    Fair enough. I know it's true that I tend to focus on the negative, though that applies to both Barber and Roberts... surely you can't say that I haven't been critical of Roberts on many, many occasions (and especially lately).

    The difference between them, for me, is that Roberts' foibles obstruct what is otherwise really solid, layered, smart, engaging writing. With Barber, his faults are not mitigated in this way. Although his ideas are often interesting, his execution constantly (for me) undermines my enjoyment of the stories. I've actually quite liked some of his stuff, but the burden of all of his missteps has accumulated to the point that most of the time I'm either indifferent or actively irritated by a new issue of RID.

    I think he would have handled that setting really, really well... to the point that when the two series were announced, I was sort of puzzled that the socio-political thriller series (RID) was not going to be written by Roberts (who had impressed me with LSOTW and Chaos Theory)... with him instead doing the "space quest" storyline. As it turned out, the "space quest" ended up being the least interesting part of MTMTE (IMHO).

    However, there's no denying that it would have been a DIFFERENT series. I don't think Roberts would have told quite the same stories as Barber. But then, I'd be fine with that. I really don't think that Barber has the knack for shell games, politics and twisty intrigue plots. His characters tend to be a lot more blunt than that, in my opinion.

    Naaaah... you can just tell me that you totally disagree, and tell me why, and I'll be happy to banter back and forth. :) 

    The whole "everything is subjective, everybody has their own perspective" extreme relativism says nothing to me. I mean, it is true in many ways, but is also essential enough that we need not disseminate or dissemble over it. Yes, we all have our perspectives, but we also exist in an "consensual and objective" shared reality... and being overly mindful of relativism and subjectivity actually tends to impede rational or critical discussion, in my opinion.

    What is your profession again?

    On that topic, I do understand that people are doing the best they can, and deserve a modicum of respect, not only for that, but even independently of the quality of the work they are doing... a basic human respect. However, when we are actually engaging in a round-table critical discussion of MEDIA (be it literature, film, art, whatever), we are sort of obligated to apply evaluative tools and metrics. Refusing to do so can actually disintegrate critical thinking or rational means of evaluation, leaving only the fairly useless polarities of "everything is relative so who are we to judge?" and those who express everything in terms of "this is awesome or it sucks, just because it is" no real reasons necessary.

    Well yeah, Getaway did seem slightly coy about it too, agreeing with Rodimus' theory, but not really coming right out and saying it. He might have been playing elusive on purpose, letting people run with their assumptions.

    Exactly... some kind of prolonged smokescreen or con job, double or triple cross, would have been pretty interesting. Even if his gambit failed, it would have said more for Prowl that he actually HAD a credible gambit in the first place.

    zmgo
     
  12. mirage4lifeyo

    mirage4lifeyo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Posts:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Likes:
    +0
    Bottom line with Barber, and its been harped on but I think it need be said, is the guy is an excellent comic book editor and continuity master, and would, I think, shine the most in roles like that, editing for MTMTE like he does. As a writer though, in terms of executing new plots of his own and certainly with regard to dialogues and (ugh) inner monologues, he has....well, the nice way to say it and true way is that he hasn't really distinguished himself from any other run-of-the-mill American comic book writers. I would never call him a bad writer, he's not. However he's not a great one either. As an editor, as a continuity-maintainer, he can be great.

    If anything, part of what I've sensed in these last few issues of MTMTE has been a bit of "Barberism" in its own right, as I think especially with the cross-over event in play he and Roberts have had to work more closely together and you see that seeping in. Every time I've started a MTMTE issue these past few times out that spends the first couple of pages recapping stuff that just happened last issue to get newbies caught up, I'm like, this is exactly the M.O. we see in every issue of RID. Same with the long expositions and explanations of plans. Barber has a style that places emphasis on continuity and explanation, and he is the one editing and pairing down this Remain In Light story arc to five issues, which with Roberts' tendancy to vastly overwrite, has got to be a major challenge for *any* editor. My feel on what we've been seeing in this arc is that Roberts had a story to tell that probably could have gone on for a good 10 issues or so at least if under a normal pace, certainly under the MTMTE pace we've seen in some other issues. But so many things need to be "wrapped up" in these five issues, and Barber as an editor will always steer toward including panels that fill continuity gaps, explain plot points, etc as things that make his final cut. While I agree that's essential, it feels like we are getting an extremely large proportion of that stuff in MTMTE lately, which again I bet can be traced to Roberts doing what he does and having overwritten a story arc that could never have realistically been compressed to five issues and still retain the standard pacing and "feel" of MTMTE's usual outings.

    As an example, I bet you could very easily have seen Roberts fill up at least two issues alone of just a full on flashback "Adventures of Skids & Getaway, Special Ops Buddy Movie Extraordinaire" somewhat like we saw in the flashback "Shadow Play" three issue series. Frankly, we've been wondering what was up with Skids for *so long* - its been one of the main burning questions since Issue 2, and with all the burning questions in MTMTE that's saying a lot - that it probably *deserved* a couple issues all its own just to tell the tale of what really happened with him. Instead we get a montage chock full of explanation from Getaway crammed into one-fourth of one issue, and I'm certain there was plenty of backstory, interaction and funny Getaway-Skids banter that was left on the cutting room floor.
     
  13. Infosaur

    Infosaur Ancient Cybertronian

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Posts:
    4,022
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +407
    But did you laugh?
     
  14. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Posts:
    9,607
    News Credits:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +5,751
    Yeah but, like, Megatron Origin's characterisation of everyone was so eh...

    IIRC, Fortress Maximus said all the Autobot outposts were being hit at the same time just before Overlord showed up.

    But yeah, I don't believe for a second that AHM was written with the rest of IDW in mind. McCarthy was writing a G1 fanfic for all he was concerned.
     
  15. Burningsirius

    Burningsirius Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2011
    Posts:
    397
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Likes:
    +1
    Sad thing is, McCarthy could of went balls to the walls awesome and kept the infiltration protocols mentioned, give nods and winks as everything fell apart in Megatron's madness AND still kept continuity. He erased all the world building Furman had done up until that point. I really loved Furman's IDW world being more based on the Cold War than WW II. I would of really loved to of seen Thundercracker chafe as the situation went from bad to worse then betray the Decepticons for the honor of the Decepticons. We were never meant to fight people inferior to ourselves he would say! Still we could of had all the dead universe stuff in the back burner. Galvatron could of been shown biding his time waiting for a good time to strike or something like that to expand the negative universe. Sunstreaker should of been saved (this proves McCarthy new the background material) and Kup should of been the unwitting double agent as intended and we would of still had Hunter. I am still very very bitter about Hunter. He was the human experience of Transformers done right! Now we have a hollow Sunstreaker floating around like flotsam on the Lost Light. People even forget he is on there. Oi, it is so frustrating his epic destiny was ruined just for a cheap kill. I mean if anyone pokes Roberts at cheap kills, McCarthy takes the cake and remember that all the continuity flubs are really Schmit's fault (the guy who wrote Spotlight Metroplex) because he doesn't believe continuity in comics should exist and just the strongest stories should prevail regardless of what was established before it.

    Yeah, I am miffed and well read on the subject.
     
  16. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Posts:
    9,607
    News Credits:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +5,751
    Meh, I don't mind some of Furman's writing being dropped. Killing off Hunter sucked, yes, but at least it put an end to the Headmaster plot that was confusing and, quite frankly, boring.

    I know AHM was atrocious, but IDW before hand was still pretty damn boring. It had good ideas, like Ore 13 and the infiltration protocol, but Furman wasn't really doing anything interesting with it. The plot moved at a snail's pace and there were too many things to keep track of.
     
  17. SMOG

    SMOG Vocabchampion ArgueTitan

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    21,073
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Location:
    Robot Narnia, Quebec
    Likes:
    +5,363
    Yeah, I mostly agree with all of this.

    Oh, Megatron Origin was nothing special in terms of characterization, but I was speaking more in terms of the actual persona character histories, and the fact that Rumble and Frenzy were mining bots on the outpost where Megatron first started his rebellion. In a sense, they were there before anyone else. They've been by Megatron's side much longer than they've been associated with Soundwave.

    Yeah. My pet theory was that most of AHM was already written, but then McCarthy rewrote sections of it to integrate it a bit more with the existing IDW continuity. It also might explain why some portions of AHM are much better than other parts... as if having to rewrite sections of it forced him to improve. I still maintain that the very first and last issues of AHM are the worst... really soulless, dismal fanboy writing.

    HOWEVER, I also have been a bit of a defender of All Hail Megatron. After Furman's run, it was kind of nice to have stories that were SO character-focused. AHM was a bit thin on plot and a bit contemptuous of the previous continuity, but on the other hand, about half the series was composed of character interaction, especially on the Decepticon side... which was quite welcome. Sure, McCarthy also gave us IDW Spike, Super Commando Perceptor (groan) and Drift (whose greatest sin was being boring), which were all crimes against the fiction... but his development of Megatron, Starscream, Thundercracker and many of the Autobots was generally pretty decent.

    zmog
     
  18. gregles

    gregles quintesson

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Posts:
    3,486
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +766
    Sorry to break up the flow of the conversation but I have been re-reading some of the older roberts idw stuff and noticed a few older references which have relevant to the current story arc, my apologies if you have already spotted these.

    In mtmte #5 ratchet says to pharma while he was dangling off a cliff "there's no way that's a loads-bearing joint" which to me shows that, that phrase phrase wasn't just plucked from nowhere

    In ongoing #23 the unnamed senator tells Orion Pax that the matrix can create life

    I'm also seeing alot of this from mtmte #4 lot having relevance in season 2 and I know a few have already been referenced

    "Hells point. The resurgence of the triple M. The Simanzi Massacre and the endless retaliation. The rise of the constellate.

    Starscreams attack on Luna 2, Soundwaves anti neutral pogroms, Bludgeons army of half formers and deviants.

    Put them all together and get the uprising, the exodus, the remote cataclysm and the surge.

    The five dark epochs that pushed our race to the brink of extinction"

    Any thoughts?
     
  19. WilyMech

    WilyMech Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Posts:
    4,412
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +420
    I am totally agreement here.
     
  20. maku098

    maku098 indeed a wise choice

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2011
    Posts:
    1,373
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Location:
    Philippines
    Likes:
    +386
    Those are only 4 events, not 5. And the senator is Shockwave.