I wouldn’t mind them making more POTP style Pretenders, but reverse it. Let the shell become a weapon like the POTP ones, but have them come with a scout+ sized robot that resembles the inner robot. Best of both worlds. Bonus points for having little dudes and still having the little dude in the shell that resembles the larger bot. I have my Metalhawk shell with my TR Metalhawk, but I never thought of giving Bludgeon to his CW self. Great idea!
I think I could be happy with that. But I think Hasbro can give the shells the kind of articulation diaclone mechsuits have. It was lame to give the potp shells no more articulation than the G1 shells.
Not for the U.S. market. Yeah, we got a few of the Euro molds. But it was largely all Diaclone. Hasbro clearly decided the U.S. wanted to go back to the basics.
We got only a handful in the first year. The Axelerators and the Skyscorchers supplemented the "basic" assortment until they were able to get the Scramble City figures going. We got only the Aquaspeeders and the factions were split amongst them. Megatron was obviously new because of gun laws. Everything else was repaint city of Diaclone molds. This was 1993 U.S.: Mini Autobots Beachcomber Bumblebee Hubcap Seaspray Small Cars Rapido Skram Turbofire Windbreaker Small Jets Afterburner Eagle Eye Terradive Windrazor Constructicons Bonecrusher Hook Long Haul Mixmaster Scavenger Scrapper Color Changers Deluge Drench Gobots Jetstorm Cars Inferno Jazz Sideswipe Dinobots Grimlock Slag Snarl Jets Ramjet Starscream Leaders Megatron Optimus Prime TRUE new figures eventually wormed their way into the line in 1994 and 1995. We never got Sparkabots, Firecons, Powermasters, Turbomasters, etc. The larger Turbomasters molds would only show up neutered in Machine Wars in 1997 and again later in Universe 1.0.
Yeah. I know you didn't get any of the toys that came at the end of G1 over here like the Turbomasters and Predators. Didn't you get the Sparkabots and Firecons in G1 either?
Ok so for regular shells that don’t transform, gimme: a regular size bot of the inner bot with a nice articulation and a slightly improved alt mode. (I actually like the pretender alts, sue me. Landmine and Cloudburst are loads of fun.) and then give them a small articulated humanoid of the shell. Basically Masterforce style. For bots whose shells have always been full size, do the reverse. Full size Bludgeon shell action figure, small inner bot that transforms. Skip the fit-one-inside-the-other gimmick for these. For the transforming shells, it’s pretty straightforward. ExKaiser style. Smal articulated bot inside a large transforming shell. Like TR Black Shadow but with an opening chest to fit a legends class dude.
I Just want the Human characters from Masterforce done Figuarts/Figma style. We got those Minerva and Ginrai a while back, but those were the armored ones. I’m fine with the POTP ones, but I’d love new ones.
Guys, perhaps everyone is taking the Pretender gimmick too literally. Because, what is the core essence of Pretenders? It's basically a Cybertronian life form who can shift its form from robotic to organic form, with mass-shifting as added "bonus". In fact, go back to Masterforce and see Metalhawk's first shift to robotmode. It's a kaleidoscopic looking shift energy effect of energy and matter ; Shuta is astounded witness of that. So, the essence is actually about a dual-form representation of the same character - RATHER than literally a mini robot figure within a humanoid looking shell, as the actual G1 gimmick was. Bringing this forward in context of toys today, I think it would be wise for HasTak to fully represent that robot form first. Afterall, the Pretenders started as robots who adapted these alterego organic forms. So, they would be full fledged transforming robots - The organic "shell" form could be represented using Hasbro's own Visionaries gimmick ; a flat silhouette with a 3D holographic representation of the humanoid. And this is just one example how Hasbro could re-interpret Pretenders.
Sure, but the play's the thing, isn't it? The conceit of the Pretender play pattern is that you have Toy A - an organic looking thing - that hides Toy B - a robot looking thing - inside, and Toy B is a complete transformer. That's the core essence of Pretenders. Moving away from one thing hiding in another thing starts to strongly defray the concept of the actual play pattern. While I won't say that some kind of "dual form representation" wouldn't be cool and/or fun (it probably would be, especially for modern kids), it's not the play pattern that @analogue is talking about, which consists of either a shell or armor encasing the figure, OR a robot mode that looks like the pretender shell, in short a vehicle that turns into a thing that looks like an organic life form (or organic life form in armor, or a dead organic life form in armor or whatever the flying hell Bludgeon is supposed to be). The most viable (and lazy) approach is the "vehicle to robot mode that looks like the shell". That's what they've done thus far, more or less. I consider that a non-option as a result. I don't know how you'd do articulated shells without sacrificing the inner bot or the shell. I think Microman took a novel approach to "pretenders". The modernized microman toys in the early 2000's actually put figures into rubber monster suits to give the monster suits articulation! However, I don't think that really pans out with transformers, insofar as Microman figures are extremely uncomplicated and mostly smooth curves instead of sharp robot angles. Aside from that, you end up with the "robot turns into a box and plugs in" style that worked for the Pretender Monsters and in some respects Powermasters. In more recent history, FansProject and the Unrustable Bastards took a novel approach to the concept with "core block" style plug in mini-droids. The "core robot" concept is fun, but requires substantial limitation on the inner bot without a substantial re-working. I personally liked the Shockwave armor idea. It would be far easier for Autobots, however, since their pretender shells were traditionally guys in armor. Making their shells convert into something else when not occupied wouldn't be too hard, ala Shockwave's hoverboard thing. The challenge would be with the Decepticon armor, as they turned into monsters and such. While some could potentially snap together to form janky looking versions of whatever they're homaging (i.e. Skullgrin's armor could come off and be put into a bull configuration, conceptually, and Submarauder's could form a shark, etc.), I dunno what you do with guys like Bludgeon and/or Stranglehold. Especially Stranglehold, whose shell is "basically a naked guy with a pornstache". Maybe his action feature with his armor shell would be to attack his enemies with Junji Ito style body horror. There might be a few other avenues to doing pretenders. Maybe the answer is to have a reverse pretender - highly articulated non-transforming action figures with snap on armor that makes them a robot AND gives them an altmode. Toy tech is good enough where you can put a lot of the converting aspects into the additional parts. This is kind of the design philosophy behind a lot of the fembot makes these days - articulated robots with most of the transforming concentrated in the backpack area. Another idea I've always enjoyed is the docking-style transformation that you see in Powermaster Prime and Star Saber. It's kind of an offshoot of the core block system, but having the powered armor have it's own altmode and the inner robot with it's own altmode, but combining and turning into a super robot/monster is not only reminiscent of the mega/ultra pretenders, but you have more room the play with. The robot that docks can be a monster that turns into a vehicle and combines with the "armor up" segment to become the actual robot, or the armor up combined mode could be the monster/battle armor, that deconstructs into the robot/altmode and a battle station/play base/other rideable vehicle.
Yes, all of those make potentially feasible concepts. However, I do think we shouldn't let the past - the actual G1 Pretender gimmick playpattern- literally define or limit what it could be in the future. Afterall, it's evident that Hasbro has not stuck to literally re-create Headmasters or Powermasters playpattern. Titans Return has proven that and the upcoming Doubledealer doesn't have the original G1 Powermaster gimmick either. Therefore, I'd say a focus on getting the BEST representation of the Pretender robot mode together with a flashy/innovative representation of the organic/humanoid persona of that character, should be a feasible future Pretender concept as well.
Except they kind of did since he can store (at least) one of the spy patrol members in his chest. Sure it doesn’t unlock transformation and really isn’t a “Power-master” so maybe 50% implemented?
It's a token carry-over of the gimmick; there's no internal powermaster interlocking mechanism to enable transformation, in there like there was in the G1 original. Titans return Headmaster surely didn't have the spec read out mechanism either. So in that sense, I'd say a token-carry over for the G1 Pretender gimmick shouldn't be principally ruled out either; ergo, something else, than trying to provide two articulated figures in one product. Again... just look at Masterforce's Metalhawk first morph scene...His shape shift scene is colored light ; it's unlike the Hasbro G1 Pretender TV commercials where the shells indeed literally split open. Thus, the modern interpretation could also consider to go with what Masterforce did. In practical toy engineering terms that would be something like a fully fledged Metalhawk transforming robot, and an accessory...some sort of flashy contraption, simple to produce... could represent the humanoid shell... and with that idea, I think the holographic 3D thing which Visionaries had, might be a viable option. - or maybe a translucent little humanoid figure...sort of like Transformer decoys, but then with a flashier translucent multicolored material.
I think we are in agreement on the token-carry over of the PowerMaster gimmick. I did point out that it did not unlock transformation. Your idea is certainly plausible - I just don't know how well it will work within the current price classes. Maybe a fully articulated non-transforming 3" figure? That fits into a full-sized, transforming robot somehow? To be honest, most of the Pretender vehicles were pretty simple, but you would probably still end up at the leader price point with a small articulated figure and a larger robot to accommodate. I guess you could squeeze these into the Voyager, but you do have limited spots in a line for either of those two size classes. Maybe the smaller figures replace Micromasters? And they somehow roll into a ball and fit into Voyager and Leader? Or skip integrating them at all? I see the Mega pretenders as being a little easier to pull off. Take Thunderwing. You could do him in a commander or leader class and easily have the larger shell be transformable and feature modern articulation, with a smaller deluxe-sized or old legends scale sized robot that also transforms and attaches to the vehicle mode or plugs in to fill out the shell.
I'll try to elaborate my new Pretender idea in a better way: - Cybertronian transformable robot figure at tall Deluxe size. - Pretender "shell" figure based on the Siege Micromaster template. As we've seen, the new Siege Micromasters engineering allows for just the right amount of articulation and sculpt definition to make the Pretender shell concept work. All they have to achieve in humanoid mode is to look the part and be poseable enough - while their "alternate" mode can be any shape as accessory to the robot figure. On top of that, the outer surface of this "shell" could be coated with Visionaries' holographic FX to homage that morph effect. So in total, a new Pretender concept like this could retail at Voyager class MSRP.
Is it though? Because both the G1 toys and the Marvel comics depicted them as regular Transformers (thus robots that could transform into an altmode) inside an organic looking suit, and when the robot came out, there still was the suit. Also, there's no mass changing (Marvel and box art). But Masterforce is a version that Takara used to sell the toys that Hasbro gave them. Takara probably didn't like the concept of Transformers in suits and created an alternate reason (TF's disguised as humans), and thus needed the option of mass changing (be the size of humans) and morphing into either mode. However, based on the toys (transforming robots inside a shell, and not triple changers with an organic mode), the box art, the bio on the toys and the depiction in the Marvel comics, it seems more likely that the intent from the creator (Hasbro) and the creator of the characters (Marvel through Bob Budiansky) was that Pretenders were regular Transformers that wore an organic looking suit. And when the time came, they would emerge from this suit with the suit still existing alongside them which they could then control. I'd also argue that the concept of the toys and the depiction by Marvel, is in general better known than the Masterforce version. That makes the core essence of a pretender: a regular robot that has a removable organic looking outer shell that can hold the Transformer.
Not really into Pretenders even back in the day. We had two Classic Pretenders: Jazz and Starscream. We played mostly with the inner bot modes because they meshed best together with our other Transformers. I gotta be honest. I personally think the best use of the Pretenders was as Prime Masters in Power of The Primes. Just my personal opinion though. If they do use it in a line in the future I'm open to what they do with them. Maybe it'll be cool. Edit: Just remembered we had both Vehicle Pretenders: Gunrunner and Roadgrabber. Those two were cool, in particular Roadgrabber. I think those two worked better for us because they didn't look human.
Spoiler alert* shameless self promotion I made this concept a while back, updating Beast wars with pretender ideas: Either way, I still liked POTPs solution, and would love the rest of the pretenders in the same style.
