It's interesting for you to say that Miko doesn't enjoy ending lives when I already stated in my previous post what disregard or indifference means. Or is are you noticing that she's leaning that way in some way?

As for an example of her feeling nothing about killing Hardshell, I clearly remember in the episode Hurt where this dialogue came about.

Wheeljack: "Welcome to the Wreckers kid. You did Bulkhead proud".
Miko:"Then why don't I feel any different".

The first person she has killed and she feels no different. She planned and brought about the death of someone and she didn't feel any different. What better example of being indifferent can one get.

Again note the other reason she killed Hardshell, "to avenge" Bulkhead". Her choice to kill Hardshell was premeditated. And the circumstances were in large part her making.

So saying what I would do in her position? I doubt I'd be going out for vengeance for one. And I do admit, I'd probably kill to protect those that I cherish. But I doubt I'd want to speak of it or let others know.


As for what I want her to do in that situation? Did I say anything about breaking into a quivering mess? Does understanding the gravity and consquences of one's actions mean breaking down into a quivering mess? Does retaining a sense of respect for those killed require a quivering mess of a person? Well, that's your idea not mine. But I digress, she can do as many pirrouettes in the battlefield as she likes. But the viewers perception of her actions are their own. And I say what I thought of these actions; I disliked them.

And I don't pretend to know justice, but I disliked her actions and would try to avoid those who do the same.

 

Dang, you are one cranky dude...

When Miko said she didn't feel any different from Hardshell's death, she was clearly implying that she got no pleasure out of it. While she was definitely after revenge for what he did to Bulkhead, it was only after Hardshell's demise, did she realise that killing him or any other sentient being was a horrible thing to do.

And despite the fact that the death of a very dangerous Insecticon may have been necessary, despite the fact that Hardshell gloated about Bulkhead's apparent demise, and despite the fact that he would have killed her on sight, Miko still felt terrible and remorseful about what she did; she lost a good portion of her innocence in that episode.

Also, she never 'planned' Hardshell's death. Yes, she wanted to hurt him in some way, but she had no strategy planned out. Her choice to use the missiles was purely instinct. There was no premeditated murder, just a sort of blind rage.

Also, Miko was not gloating about Hardshell's demise. If anyone was gloating about someone's death in an effort to intimidate his opponent and make himself look good, it was Starscream. In fact, he's done that several times. He bragged about slaughtering Cliffjumper in a vain effort to make Miko quail. Miko only talked smack to show that she is not afraid to fight and that she would defend herself to the end, even if that meant having to do something horrible.

And really, why do you keep on trying to justify your dislike of the character with such arguments? It's obvious Miko has been maturing since S1, but it seems you are ignoring these signs and substituting them with empty claims just so you don't have to like the character.

Are you afraid of having your opinion changed? I don't mind it if my thoughts and perceptions are altered over time, but you seem deathly terrified of it. If you are, then it's okay; lots of people are scared of lots of things. If you're still unsure, you can always sleep with a night light; I'm sure you can get those at a store for cheap.  

 

If I was in that suit, at age 16, and put into that situation, I'd be doing more trash talk.

 

Miko never said she wanted to kill anyone. She wanted to hurt Hardshell just as he did Bulkhead, sure, but killing wasn't even on the table until Wheeljack hinted at it with his grenade.

She watched the fighting between Wheeljack and Hardshell with much interest, but as things started to go sour, we could see Miko change--revenge wasn't what she thought it would be. Revenge was just about to took the life of ANOTHER friend.

Revenge wasn't what she thought it would be, and things didn't go down as she might have hoped it would either. What happened wasn't without consequence either, as we saw in the very next episode.

Miko tried to mask her feelings with a great deal of bravado, which didn't work as she was found out by Arcee, crying atop the base. Arcee reached out to her telling her that she was there if she wanted anyone to talk to about what had happened ad that closing one's self off from feeling doesn't help anyone.

Watching two friends narrowly escaping death and having to take a life to save another bringing Miko down.

Miko taking a life wasn't as easy for her as you make it sound.

 

Empty claims? I disagree with that assesment. In fact I'd say your statements and view points are biased towards making Miko your ideal and 'perfect character'. I didn't find anything in her actions that indicated she was displeased with her actions in killing. And saying that she didn't she only wanted to 'hurt' Hardshell seems fueled by your biased perception. Why else would she partner up with Wheeljack. Your saying she thought it was horrible, yet I don't see any example of her showing that.

As for blind rage, I didn't realize blind rage could last so long and include a plan of luring the target into a location by blowing up an energon mine. I don't see that as blind rage at all.


If you say my 'claims are empty' then I say the same about yours. But far be it for me to judge whether or not your claims are right. But I still think they're inaccurate.

As for fear about having my opinions changed, I have no fear of it. I just didin't find any worthwhile reason to do so.

 

Your perceptions of what she was crying about, what she was feeling at the moment are yours.

Your pretty much narrating what Miko is 'supposedly' feeling in scenes where there are none. Putting ideas as to what she was thinking when there was hardly anything said.

If you say she wasn't planning to kill Hardhshell, that's your perception of the incident. But what's to say it wasn't otherwise. Frankly, I think it was obvious considering she brought Wheeljack along with her. Someone who's known to kill Decepticons. What else could she have thought he would be trying to do? Give Hardshell a hard slap?

As for the episode 'Out of the Past', what consequence did she actually learn. From what I saw, the episode only 'lesson' was about her closing herself off from others. There is nothing about the consequence of killing someone.

I don't see how your perceptions and opinions on what happeend could change mine. I don't find your interpetation better than the next person.

 

Okay, that's it, no more fooling! The kid gloves are off!!

Listen to me and read my metaphorical lips: I like Miko, and I will keep on liking her, and there is f--k all you can do about it!

If you want to hear a hopelessly and irredeemably biased opinion, all you have to do is go back and read your own comments. No seriously, go back and read 'em.

I mean, I admire persistence, really, I do. But with the way you're going about it, you're just making yourself look like a total idiot and making a whole lot of people mad. And I'm not even insulting you; that's how bad I feel for you.

If you couldn't even see the obvious regret Miko had for her actions, then you're either blind, or you yourself have allowed your opinion of Miko to take over and see bad in everything she does, even when she redeems herself. Seriously, it's like you're desperately trying to make her look like some horrible, horrible person just so you can justify whatever argument you make against her. I was only speculating before, but now I'll state this as official fact: you are downright terrified of changing your opinion of Miko's character, and while it may be persistence on your part, I believe you're just afraid your hate for her will be proven wrong!

And I strongly disagree with your statement about my perception of Miko. Yes, I love that girl to death, but that doesn't mean I'll take every opportunity to make her some sort of God-modded 'perfect character'. She has flaws, and she doesn't succeed at everything; she's only human after all. Even when I write my fanfiction, I make sure to portray the less than desirable aspects of her personality, because that's the way she's portrayed in the show. In fact, I may have even gotten her drunk a few times in some of my stories, and we all know what alcohol does to the body.

If you ask me, you're clutching at straws; just accept that there are people in life with opinions different from yours, and you'll live much happier, because that's how life works.

And if you're a grown adult and you're reading this, then I have to say that you should be ashamed of yourself and your so called 'arguments', because this text wall was written by a nineteen year old Engineering student who probably knows a bit more than you do about how to write a friggin' character.

Grow up, and have a good day, sir...

 

Okay, people, I think it's time to cool our jets and agree to disagree, alright? No use getting really worked up over differing views of the matter. We have our perceptions and interpretations, and that's all there is to it.

Let us return our efforts to less split-inducing subjects, such as the fact that Miko offering a 'predacon bone' to Magnus, only to learn it is a rock, was pretty damn hilarious  

 

Did you see her acting at all happy or pleased about it? Where?

Just because she didn't have the kind of reaction you think she 'should' have or react in the way you think YOU would does not automatically mean she was pleased or satisfied with her actions. Show ONE INSTANCE where Miko was actually happy about what she did.

Your claims are empty because there's no evidence to support them. That one line does not count as actual evidence. Those of us who are calling your claims messed up have been actually paying attention to Miko and there is NOTHING to indicate that what you claim is even remotely true.

All your claims are rooted in how YOU personally feel about her smack talk. You didn't like it because, in YOUR view, it shows a 'disregard for life'. Using that 'logic' (even though it's not), you come to the conclusion that Miko has disregard for life. Which is completely bogus in the face of all of Miko's actions in the second half of season 2 and up through season 3. One line does not negate everything else.

You think they're 'inaccurate'? Prove it. Use more than that one line. If you can't then zip it because what you claim has no weight in the face of all that has been shown.

In the meantime, I offer this   as a means of expressing how I see your overly-simplistic ideal of what constitutes as 'disregard for life', which is so laughably inaccurate and naive it's pathetic.

 

And now who's showing how crabby they are? And did I force you to accept my views? Nope. Actually you're the one who's been quoting me all along.

If there's anyone who can't accept other's points of view, that's yours. I know what I've written and many times I have stated it's up to each person's perception of the events.

I don't really care much about whether or not your an engineering student. I don't see how that makes your views better than another. But then, maybe you think otherwise considering your adding this to the conversation.

And why are you adding your fanficition into this? Are you talking about the character in the series or the one that you write in your fanfiction? Maybe your upset because the character doesn't really resemble the one in you day dreams.

Your complaining that I find fault in everything she did? I actually find that absurd. I pretty much complimented her ability to follow Ultra Magnus. Of course you kept on picking on my statement that I disliked people who boast about the death of their enemies. And of course as a response as I elaborated. Don't be upset at it, since your one of the people who made me elaborate more and more.

 

Don't, Meta. For all we know, Flashdisk will probably use the whole 'Predacon Bone' thing as an excuse for some other baseless argument. He'll probably say that Miko is too stupid to be on the battlefield or some other such nonsense.

 

I offer you roll eyes too then. Your pretty much forgot to look where I stated that the absence of reaction or change shows an indifference to Hardshell's death. Naive and pathetic, so direct; it can also be directed at your own claims.

As for Miko's actions in the second season, really when has she contemplated on the lives of her enemies. She hasn't really done anything in season 3 that I find proves otherwise. When has she shown mercy or remorse. None. So really what proof is there otherwise?

And I find you claims as weightless as mine. I don't even see anything in your statements can counter mine.

 

Oh for gods sake... Had to have a little dig, there. So much for moving the conversation on

 

I'm perfectly ready to accept another's point of view. What I won't accept, is when people make arguments using very, very stupid reasons, especially when such arguments are based on observations that are colored by the person's bias against a character. People should leant to make their statements using as little bias as possible.

The only reason I brought my fanfiction into this was so I could readily tell you that I'm not the sort of person who will readily make Miko a 'perfect character' as you so claim. I like Miko for her flaws and character, despite all the less than desirable things she's done on screen, and that's how I see her.

And yes, I do admit that I'm sort of dragging this stupid argument along, but that can't be helped when my opponent in question keeps ticking me off.

 

Of course, when did I force my perception onto others? Of course some people just have such high opinions of their claims that they keep quoting and arguing against other people's statements, under the guise of openess on their opinions.

 

I didn't even consider you an opponent until you brought it up. And who are you to judge the validty of my arguments? Is it colored by bias? I can say that much about yours.

A perfect character? I meant your making her your perfect character with flaws that you can readily accept.

Ticking you off? I'd say that's another means of showing you can't handle other people's views.

 

Where is it ever explicitly stated that lack of a reaction means indifference? Care to support this? Why does she have to have a big, visible reaction for you to believe she's indifferent to what she did?

I can grasp the reality of the matter, kid. You can't see past your own narrow perceptions. You really don't know what you're talking about at all. I have been writing for a long, long time and I have personal experience with trauma. People who appear indifferent on the outside are usually raging and crying on the inside. Just ask any solider who's been overseas who suffered PTSD and how it felt when they first killed someone. Or they can have big, visible reactions and not really feel anything on the inside. Personally, I find the former far more believable for Miko's character. With someone as loud, lively and hyper as she is, seeing her quiet, sluggish and looking like she's dragging the weight of the world on her is far more troubling than if she were shivering and crying, which didn't happen until she sees Bulkhead. Add in her age and it's honestly one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen in an animated show.

She wasn't so much indifferent as she was clearly numb by what happened. I have seen it enough times to recognize it. Characters don't always need a big, dramatic reaction to show they were effected by such an event.

If you can somehow prove me wrong, go right ahead. I won't stop you.

 

^^^GUYS!! Can't we just put aside our differences and agree on one thing. Miko was pretty damn entertaining especially when she mistakes a rock for a bone when showing UM.


nahhhh....we can never get along in threads..that's alright....that's alright.....

 

^Yeah. Miko was a kick!

Just ask those seekers!  

 

Spotted this on another board, but I don't watch the Iron Man cartoon so I thought I'd put it here in case someone does and wants to chime in at cbr.

Miko (Transformers Prime) vs. Pepper Potts (Iron Man Armored Adventures))