Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by unexpectedpanda, Jul 17, 2015.
Would help if you put my post into the context of the one I was responding to.
That's awesome! I had seen somewhere that CW UM also had a targeting reticle behind his head, where Minumus goes? That's pretty darn good.
Yeah, I noticed that "G1 face" in the windshield. Really nice little touch.
The inclusion of the classic G1 toy launcher (as a back-mounted weapon too) is a great addition. The chrome is a bit messy, but I don't mind it so much.
I dig the face sculpt(s), and the extra tilt in the neck so he can look down is brilliant. I love figures that incorporate that kind of motion. It really extends the range of personality in his poses. He has a remarkable range of articulation, even with his slightly awkard design.
The hip panels have a certain "gunslinger" look that almost makes them forgivable... but when you remove them... oh man, it DOES make the figure look a lot better without them, it can't be denied.
But wouldn't it have been cool if they had been designed in such a way that they could act as "holsters" for his double pistols?
I wish they had actually built a sled that works as a sled, rather than just a one-piece weapons stand that houses all his accessories. It's reminiscent of those Soul of Chogokin specialized accessory stands, but at the same time... it's going to stay in the box forever, just like those SoC stands. Kind of a waste of plastic, for me at least.
I do feel like his lower legs are a bit of a fail... even in terms of imitating the simplified look of the cartoon, the abrupt break (and gap) at the ankle ends up detracting from that effect. I feel like they should have come up with a more smooth way of capturing the "smooth boot" effect from the cartoon, since they decided to go that way. Hard to argue with the articulation it provides though.
Is that enough nice things said about this figure already?
Yeah, that spark chamber is just another example of the attention to detail put into these figures.
I'm guessing at least one of the reasons for Ironhide's more cartoon inspired restrained detailing is to help distinguish the subtle differences between him and Ratchet in the character models. Hips and heads, of course, but also Ratchet has lines around his thighs that Ironhide lacks and Ironhide has detailing on the sides of his knees that Ratchet lacks.
All the joints on my figure are pretty much perfect so I hope that holds up. My Datsuns and Lambos have loosened up a bit over time but Wheeljack's still nice and tight.
Well, the transformation (outside of the arm-roof clearance) is ingenious and fun.
Yeah, I like the lines on Ratchet's thighs. Too bad the boots still have that "lego brick" look, but there's only so much to be done.
I've had loose-joint reports, but my MPs have been 95% tight, and Wheeljack especially. However, one of my main engineering gripes about the entire MP line up till now is the heavy reliance on rivets, especially on major joints. If something loosens up over time, or worse, is loose straight from the factory, there's almost nothing the consumer can do to correct it. I really wish they used more screws and ratchets. It would make them much easier to fix, maintain, or customize.
Yes! I've transformed him a handful of times and that part always gets me worried that I might stress or chip something. Do you have the legs still in "bot" placement or in "van mode" This last time I did the legs last and didn't have too much of the clearance issue.
The last time I did it I save the entire arm folding until the very last. That seemed to work - I think.
Hmmm I've had a minor revelation!
You know I'm totally with Dean ML and folk like him in that I'm just in this for joy. I'm happy these things exist at all and love everyone of them despite their imperfections. I've also been letting the negativity and nitpicking turn me off a bit - like jeez some of you guys, dont you get any joy from this hobby at all? Why do you bother? It's like collecting is some kind of chore you're just compelled to do.
But with just one line I begin to see it a different way!...
Maybe I've been mischaracterising these nitpickers - I've seen them sometimes as whiny, spoilt, entitled, internet douches. But maybe they're just nerdy guys geeking out obsessively over their toys. They're, in fact... Simpsons Comic Book Guy! And Simpsons Comic Book Guy is cool! 'worst MP evaar'. That self awareness too in SMOG's statement - I dunno, I suddenly see it all in a different light and it's more tolerable - amusing even, if I look at it that way.
I'm not really here to take toys too seriously - I'm just enjoying them. But, you know, if some guys are here to take toys too seriously that's fine. At least they are aware they're taking toys too seriously! In future I'll try not to take it the wrong way and let it get me down. I'll try to chuckle and enjoy it even!
Bravo! Well put. We like and dislike differently but the passion is the same.
I love the process of debating and critique ... isn't that the purpose of a message board?
I'll give praise to a figure or tell you where I think it comes up short.
I'll never attack Hasbro or Takara though, it is truly astounding the amount of awesome stuff we've gotten over the years.
Your opinion, but then you do fall in second category. Perhaps as evident by calling my post a "total fucking bullshit".
And seeing several posts since yours with people speaking out that they also feel that their opinion of this figure as not fitting with the other MP carbots is being well, for want of a better word, ridiculed, and that they disagree with your reply, makes me think that it isn't "total fucking bullshit".
I haven't seen a single post (in the last couple of pages) that calls this figure a complete waste and/or a failure. I can't recall where I read it, but I do remember someone stating that this was an excellent figure in almost every way as long as it was a stand alone figure, but put alongside the other MP cars it stands out. And everyone who says they ultimately dislike this figure, admits that there's a lot to like about it.
And I never called them "fair, honest, and mature". I said that an outsider would look at these different opinion and decide that the first group was more likely right. Because they seem to give a more balanced opinion by acknowledging the good points and ultimately deciding that the negatives outweight the positive.
This in contrast to the other side who calls this figure magnificent and nearly flawless, and not only do they disagree with or not understand those who dislike it, several of them are stating very clearly that those posters are wrong and should get over it.
I will admit that going back over the last couple of pages (since SMOG posted some of his grievance), I was perhaps generalising a bit too much regarding those who defend the figure. Yes, there are some posters who although praise the figure do admit that there's room for minor nitpicks or perhaps minor improvements. But quickly reading through them these posts do express the opinion that this is one of the best MP's so far and whatever complaints people have, are insignificant or overreacting.
Just a quick reading gave me this (but there are more):
- Ironhide fuckin rocks. The more time goes by the more I love him
- Fuckin love the gloss on this guy
- I cannot give enough praise to the designers for editing out unnecessary surface details
- His size is about as perfect as I could hope for
- Add another vote for Ironhide's awesomeness.
- here we have one of the best MP's in recent times but all I see are pages and pages of unhappy collectors.
and a slightly more understanding:
Although not all in direct reply to SMOG's post, all these posts were posted afterwards as a response to people expressing their grievance. And some posts (not quoted here, because I wanted to limit myself and they were a bit harder to pull one or two sentences from), were even more direct.
That's okay and it probably has to do with the changes in the line and the different goals of the collectors
If I recall correctly (and if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong), you are one of those TF collectors who left the brand completely after the end of the G1 cartoon in the 80's. You never bought a figure from any of the later series (BW, BM, RiD, Unicron trilogy) and was completely detached from the line. And then, twenty odd years after you left, the live action movie came out and you were pulled back in, bought a shitload of the toys from the movie but it didn't satisfy. What you wanted were the G1 characters. As a kid you wanted the toys because of the show and when the show ended you didn't care much for the toys. And now you want MP's to be what you saw on the show. As accurately as possible.
And that's okay.
I myself have been with the brand almost non-stop since it started -- save for brief absence during G2, but that was only because I tried to convince myself that I shouldn't be buying them. (That doesn't make me better or anything, it just means that I'm less limited to this G1 cartoon vision you express: every line since G1 has had nice things and I've taken something from every line, be it characterisation, actual figures or just design ideas.)
And even during G1 the cartoon for me was nothing more than one of the three supports for my interest in Transformers: the toys, the comic and the cartoon, and in that order. Yes, I disliked that G1 Ironhide didn't look like his cartoon model, but in most instances I disliked that the cartoon ommited parts from the toy. Many of the toys had weapons or features that the cartoon ignored, and most if not all of the toys had more details (even for 80's toys) and I disliked seeing these details gone from the simplified cartoon models.
And that's why Hasui's approach to the MP line hit such a chord with me. Based on the animation model, but mixed with elements of the toy, the real life altmode and also how we perceived the characters. The best possible interpretation of these characters as figures.
I can tell you I absolutely don't care for Optimus Prime or Bumblebee. Mostly because of the cartoon where the latter I found annoying and the first was presented as a boring, bland character who made dumb tactical decisions. (I only started liking Optimus when he became a Powermaster in the Marvel comis.) And yet, their MP figures I absolutely love. And it's because of this mix Hasui spoke of. Optimus is instantly recognisable, but not as cartoon accurate as MP-1 (which I never liked: too bland, but getting him at the same time as Binaltech Smokescreen probably didn't help there). He has details from a real truck, he has details from the toy, and he even has some details that just make sense for a big robot. And his proportions were intentionally made more heroic because most of us see Optimus as this big hero (and it also mimicks some shots in the comics, not to mention Roberts' Eugensis novel where he describes Optimus Prime). As I said, I don't care about Optimus Prime but I absolutely love MP-10 for everything it is. And the same goes for Bumblebee who has bland surfaces where the car parts are, but the robot mode gives details derived from the toy.
And then I look at Ironhide:
- the legs are almost completely devoid of details just like the cartoon, while the toy had details on the lower legs. (An earlier photoshop in this very thread showed how the toy would look with some of those toy details and it looked very good -- I'm also reminded of the Datsuns where the toy had details behing the leg windows which the cartoon didn't, and the MP is a better figure for including it.)
- the altmode misses details from the real van because...? making it the least accurate of the MP carbots in altmode
- he's too big according to the scale chart and depiction in fiction
- Although Ironhide wasn't particularly strong, he was tough. This figure doesn't look tough to me.
But that's just my opinion. And as I said earlier, although I can find things I don't like about MP-10 through MP-21, I do like each and everyone of them and they all are to me the ultimate interpretation of those characters. And with each and every figure releases since, Magnus, Tracks, Ironhide and Hot Rod, I feel that there's a lot of room for improvement and none of them are the ultimate interpretation of those characters. If TT or a 3rd party company announces a character released in the MP-10 through MP-21 series, I'll happily ignore it. However, if a new Magnus, Tracks, Ironhide or Hot Rod is shown today that I feel is better, I'm selling those MP's immediately. Because they're just not up to the same level in my view.
To me a Masterpiece figure shouldn't just be a figure that's as close a possible to the cartoon. It should be more. It should be the best possible interpretation of said character. And that can never be a faithfull remake of the undetailed 2D model from a 80's cartoon. It should be more. And MP-10 through MP-21 are more.
Given the last few pages, I'm putting this here too instead of just in the MP Appreciation topic lol (albeit in truncated form).
As always though, in seriousness, my stance is what it says in my signature. It always amazes me how taken aback people are to discover different people like different things. And it only seems to be the case on the internet. No one would ever come up to someone on the street and exclaim, "To each their own, but I think your car looks hideous personally! It's amazing what people will settle for," or some such.
Live and let live. Knockoff Prime commands it.
So I've had 'ol rusty pants Ironhide for a few weeks now and he has been just sitting on display in alt mode.
Tonight I decided to transform him for the first time.
I really liked the transformation actually. Probably the most enjoyable MP transformation yet. IMO he looks really good in bot mode and definitely fits in. My 2 complaints - maybe he's just a smidge too tall and perhaps the lower legs look a little bland/lacking in detail when compared to the Lambos/Datsuns.
Most surprisingly, the hip panels don't bother me much at all. They pissed me off no end in the pre-release photos but looking at him in hand now, they just look like holsters. Ok, if I could flip them around the back to cover the tires I would. But I can't and I can live with that.
I am really impressed with this bloke now. Based on Ironhide I think Ratchet will be a must buy too.
You can't please everyone all the time. No 1,400 word forum post essay is going to change that.
Like ironhide? Buy him and enjoy. He's a good toy.
Don't like? Don't buy, check out 3P options, wait for something better.
Sorry but this is the official release. Being realistic those are really your options. No amount of words or rage is going to change that. It's reality. Take a few shots, sleep on it, and decide if you want an MP ironhide in your collection or not. It's not worth getting upset over.
Just imo though, if you do decide to skip this guy you are missing out on a great MP and very easily the best rendition of ironhide ever. There's a lot to love here even if you hate some choices made. I'd say the good outweighs the bad in almost everything about it, but it is something you have to have in your hand and experience for yourself. No video review is going to do that for you. I'd say you dudes at least owe it to yourself to go to a friends place or something that has him and check him out first hand. There is a lot to love here.
I just got him today and this toy looks a lot better in person. I am so happy with my purchase. It is nice to finally have this bruiser in my collection. This rendition of Ironhide is a Masterpiece in my opinion.
Finally had time to open my new Ironhide, really love him. But the water gun hands were both the same, D'oh.
If you missed him the first time he is back on HLJ
People need to take a step back on both sides.
If you like a figure, you shouldn't let others' negative opinions take away your enjoyment of it.
If you don't like a figure, you shouldn't feel like you can't express your concerns or disappointment.
Neither side has the right to piss in the other's cornflakes. And no, you DON'T have that right "because internet". Giving someone grief for expressing an honest opinion is where defending your position ends and douchebaggery begins. By the same token, it's not an "honest opinion" when your statement amounts to "f*** you if you don't agree with me".
Yes, Ironhide had/has some production issues. They do not seem to be widespread or pervasive the way it is with Hot Rod, and most units seem to be fine.
Yes, the figure could be better. The figures can ALWAYS be better. Just because there's room for improvement doesn't mean it's no good.
Yes, the figure could have taken more cues from the G1 toy like other MPs. The same G1 toy that looks NOTHING like it's cartoon counterpart... right.
Yes, some people find the crotch area off-putting. It IS, however, toon-accurate. No, not including the hips or tires, but the options to relocate them are at best limited.
IMPO, a masterful job was done translating Ironhide's animation design to a functional transforming toy while keeping the engineering from becoming overly complex. It's not "perfect", but i don't demand perfection because I understand it's not attainable, at least not at this time.
If someone else doesn't feel the same, that's their business. If someone calls it plastic crap or plastic Jesus I think they're an idiot either way, but that's MY business. If someone on either extreme makes a nuisance of themselves on the boards, that's the moderators' business. If someone on either extreme starts making personal attacks towards me, THEN it becomes MY business.
-drops the mic-
I still don't like the hip panels on mine.
Separate names with a comma.