Laser Sight Acquired.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by kenm2474, Feb 16, 2010.

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  1. Sportimus

    Sportimus Well-Known Member

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  2. CdnShockwave

    CdnShockwave The Prince of Poses TFW2005 Supporter

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    To support Ron, it was said that bows/arrows, spears, axes, and such are like guns: mere instruments of death. However, that's not entirely true as the context in which bows, arrows, and spears were used is entirely different to modern civilization. Yes, they were used as methods of defence. BUT, back in the day the likelihood of of being raided by bandits, invaded by nomads from the east, ect was much higher. But, setting that to one side for the moment, consider this: food. Bows/arrows, spears, and such were also used as a primary instrument for hunting to get food. In this sense, the context of their purpose was very different. You'd use a spear to bring down an animal so that you could eat it. This was to a large part a necessity. Even cultures that domesticated animals still required something to kill them with. Guns today do not serve a survival purpose in this context. People still hunt, but in many contexts it's for sport and not out of survival necessity. Guns also served the same function as bows until relatively recently in human history. But in this day and age guns do not serve a survival purpose in terms of food gathering. To this end, bows, arrows, and spears served a very different purpose then than guns do now. And, getting back to defence, having studied Ancient Persia, Greece, Rome, and Northern Africa extensively the chances of being killed out herding your goats or walking into the nearest village was pretty high in comparison to what it is today.

    However, it was pointed out that the number gun related deaths in the states (pro-gun country) are astronomically higher than they are the UK (anti-gun country). So to say that there's no correlation between having guns and people being killed is rather a weak argument.

    Oh, and as for axes you'd use those to chop trees down. Timber is an extremely versatile resource and using axes and knife-like carving tools you can turn a block of wood into great number of things.
     
  3. Sportimus

    Sportimus Well-Known Member

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    Meh.

    There are 60 million people in the UK. There are about 80 gun owners in the US. And the UK has more crime victims than in the US. And the US was beaten by a good number of other nations of lower population in number of murders.

    The fact remains that criminals will always have guns. Guns have replaced bows and arrows and swords as the weapon of choice, which is why they've become so irrelevant in todays times as prime weapons. THey are still lethal and you can't ignore that. You don't bring a knife to a gun fight, or a bow and arrow. You'll lose. Just because the UK has banned guns and their deaths by guns is lower, doesn't mean murder has gone down significantly. People will use anything to kill some one else. There are over 300 million people in the US versus only 60 in the UK, of course there is going to be a big difference.

    And guns have not lost their place in today's times either. Target shooting is a great sport, just as archery is. And there are people who hunt to live believe it or not. Montana alone is filled with people who do that. Hunting with a rifle is far more efficient than hunting with a bow.

    You don't think living in rural area's people don't get attacked? Have you heard of the kidnapping problems that have been happening in Arizona? Or the home invasions over there and other places as well?

    Axes are great for chopping wood, and for chopping limbs in case you forgot. And cars are great for getting around, yet more people die from those than from firearms. Fast food is great, but more people die from getting heart disease. Smoking was never designed to kill, yet there are more people dying from that than from firearms. But that's okay. Feel compfy. If you should get robbed, you can be confident that there is no means available to you to protect yourself or those you love and you can enjoy being at the mercy of the aggressor who will hold your fate in his hands. I'm sure you'll feel quite superior then when he tells you to lie on the floor with her hands behind your back as he ransacks your home. Like I said, it's your choice. All I ask is to respect mine and not belittle gun owners as "savages" or any other derogatory description that makes you feel superior in civilization. Freedom of choice. As someone who has already been down the road of robbery, I don't plan on being helpless should it ever occur again (and I hope it never does btw).
     
  4. DeathsHead

    DeathsHead Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure you're being quite accurate with the statistics from that site you have referenced.

    For 2002 (the year of the report):

    Murders per capita clearly puts the US at 24th and the United Kingdom down at 42nd.

    Murders (total) has the US at 16,204 with the UK lagging behind somewhat at 1201.

    Even given the difference in population size this clearly indicates a considerably higher murder rate in the United States, regardless of whether firearms were involved.
     
  5. smkspy

    smkspy Remember true fans

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    And yet you've toss around the comparison between two more than once.


    You like that saying a lot that don't you. I never said he was a nut job. Though the OP has before made threads just like this and has consistently in the past made statements that give people pause. He's a nice guy, but I'd get around him when he's packing. Like I said, it's a mindset that can breed carelessness. The craziest gun thing I ever saw was at walmart. This rather overweight and nerdy guy was at the jewelry department looking over a display case. He was wearing an exposed shoulder holster with his revolver hanging off the side acting like it wasn't even there. Permit or no, what kind of person does that?

    I really don't like guns. They have a purpose, but I believe they should be treated with the utmost reverence. Our careless gun culture is worrisome at times.


    I think you're discussing an entirely different point than what I was referring to in my statement you quoted.


    If we want to get into the semantics of it. We're gun owners, so yes, we're afraid. We're afraid of the possibly of something bad happening to us. Though no, I never said that I was living in fear. Being slightly paranoid (which has worn off now btw) doesn't equal living in fear.


    Yeah, about a subject that is dangerously close to breaking the no politics rule. Besides, the OP made a similar thread recently, and it took the same path of this one.



    Ah, the old "You don't like it, you can't discuss it" idea. How novel.

    And nice insult btw. I never realized that having a different opinion and discussing a topic meant I needed some maturity.

    Wow, way to grossly exaggerate my opinions to the furthest extreme. This is exactly why the anti and pros groups cannot have any rational debate on the subject. And heaven forbid that a gun owner isn't exactly in line with the NRA mission statement.


    And this too. It just needs a pic of Charlton Heston behind it.

    Oh yes he's preformed a public service.:rolleyes:  Something that a quick search on google couldn't have provided you.


    I agree. Gun education and history should be a subject openly discuss. But the anti-gun mongers are just as bad the pro-gun nuts. Both extremes give the whole debate a bad name.

    I think someone's been watching 1941. But no, gun bragging didn't make Yamamoto decide against invading.

    Okay. Don't really understand the point you're trying to make here since Needless preaching is needless. I'm part of choir.


    Though I'm always curious why this debate always returns to the "Everything can be used as a weapon" aspect. Seriously, that has to be the weakest and most sanctimonious defense of gun ownership out there.

    Yes there are. There is also more reasonable "anti" gun people than people give credit for. Unfortunately, it is a small but very vocal minority on both sides giving the reasonable and responsible a bad name.
     
  6. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

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    I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.
     
  7. smkspy

    smkspy Remember true fans

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    Youtube or GTFO.
     
  8. on_a_warpath

    on_a_warpath OAW 2010

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    Since the first guns ever made were grossly inaccurate, I would guess their original purpose was to intimidate with a loud bang.

    I like guns. A lot. I use them on a regular basis. However, I do not own any because I am underage, and the only gun that I use on a regular basis is an ex-military .22 Marlin 2000(was used for training new recruits in the Army) that's been modified to do competition shooting. I treat it with respect, and I always handle it safely. I'm a pacifist, and I would never wish to point a gun at somebody. So I would like to say that I use guns because I think they're a lot of fun when used safely, and even then for some reason I like to take them apart, see what makes them tick, clean them, and put them back togethor a lot more than I do shooting them.

    I would also like to say that I hate laser sights, scopes, and the like. I stick to iron sights.
     
  9. kenm2474

    kenm2474 LORD DC TFW2005 Supporter

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    You like a saying that don't you. I never said he was a nut job. Though the OP has before made threads just like this and has consistently in the past made statements that make people fearful he is a gun owner. Like I said, it's a mindset that can breed carelessness.
    Smkspy you are an outright lier.
     
  10. Razerwire

    Razerwire 99 Problems... Veteran

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    You know, I've always thought that there were only two groups of people when it came to the topic of guns. The pro and anti.

    But I've come to realize that there are at least four.

    There's the first two above and then there are the gun owners who disagree with each other on the direction/habits of gun ownership as well as the anti gun owner groups who can't seem to agree with each other.

    I used to be entirely anti gun ownership. I thought the right to bear arms was an outdated law and shouldn't be applied in this day and age.

    But after talking to some of the less extreme gun owners on this board and hearing the other side, I've rethought my position on the entire gun ownership issue. So much so that I even brought it up to my wife who has rethought her position on it as well.

    See, these things can happen as long as the extremes are willing to bring about their arguments in a logical, thoughtful, non-insulting way.

    But 99.9% of the time it doesn't happen because everyone becomes defensive on both sides.

    I guess I should've realized that with many other topics, there are extremes and there are moderates. The gun ownership topic shouldn't be any different but for some reason I've just always felt that it was either pro or anti.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  11. smkspy

    smkspy Remember true fans

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    Dude, people were jumping on you left and right for some of the things you were saying in the last gun thread. So no, I'm not a "lier."
     
  12. kenm2474

    kenm2474 LORD DC TFW2005 Supporter

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    You are a Lier very much so.
     
  13. Razerwire

    Razerwire 99 Problems... Veteran

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    Okay this is just getting silly now. If people seriously can't offer a constructive argument then this thread is closed.
     
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