Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by sevenlima, Jul 5, 2019.
Thanks for that I almost forgot what this tread was about, my bad
If you say so, but I was a part of this too so, *insert Optimus saying "Whoops! Sorry my bad." here*.
Wow, he was pretty tough! I guess the Bay characterization is closer to G1 than I thought!
I'd say the characteristics of individual Transformers plays a big part in whether their design aesthetics are a good fit. Didn't the whole Bee discussion start because of the differences between the Bay Bees and the Knight Bee? And the argument that Knight Bee was closer to the G1 character?
Back to Animated
*Gonna have to disagree with you there-I recall in one of the following battles, there literally was an instance where Brawl's CGI model was re-used in the background, and once again, his ass was handed to him. . .
*Disagreeing again-don't confuse what is considered popular (i.e., terminology of the 80s vs. now) with what is character development. Go back and rewatch how Darius McCrary's performance of Jazz is, and then compare that with Scatman Crothers' performance. There is a vast difference-Scatman and the Sunbow writers (regardless of the flaws of the G1 cartoons-at least they admitted they were rushing some of the episodes to get a paycheck and meet deadlines) actually took time to build and develop Jazz's character clearly in relation to the other Autobots, as well as with his human counterparts, i.e., Spike and Sparkplug.
I recall Jazz also having an effect on Spike, and his fellow Autobots, especially that was endearing, i.e., using his pop-out speakers in car mode, to counteract some device the Decepticons were doing, and several other instances. If someone is considered hip, then it would stand to reason that they'd be somewhat endearing to whomever they come in contact with, as G1 Sunbow Jazz was.
That WAS NOT SHOWN with bayverse Jazz, because: A)bay and co. were more damn concerned with how Jazz looked/visual eye-candy and "cool" surface-scratching visuals rather than character building; B)They killed off Jazz (just like they killed off bayverse Ironhide) literally because BOTH the Pontiac Scion and GMC Topkick were being discontinued. GTFOH!!! Yet, another tired excuse. Are these not alien transforming robots who can scan different vehicle modes if the situation calls for it???; C)They had Megs rip bay Jazz in half, and then DID NOT SHOW Ratchet's medical prowess that WE WERE TOLD ABOUT, by failing to have Ratchet repair him. Hell, even Robot Chicken parodied this fact. Can you blame them?
Bayverse Jazz was not hip, but more like the loner kid in school who tries his or her damnedest to come off as hip, but comes off looking like an idiot who does not gain the acceptance he or she longs for. Question: did bayJazz endear anyone to his supposed hipness like G1 Sunbow Jazz did??? Think carefully before answering that one-like so many tired bayverse examples, he was a visual spectacle that showed up, and then got his robotic ass handed to him, and then was killed off, without properly and FULLY characterizing them and FULLY acquainting us, THE AUDIENCE, with them.
The fact that you mentioned a few more bayverse bots and cons doesn't negate my 99% comment about no character development. I'll go back over that again:
1)bay Optimus- "noble"??? Seriously??? bayOP is a psychotic murdering savage who has no scruples about ripping his enemies apart-hell, even Peter Cullen himself has stated he had problems with bayverse OP;
1a)muteBee - a character who STILL has to talk through his damn radio, because again bay and the writers; also, an Autobot who literally gets blown to bits, but for some unknown reason, can magically reattach his severed bodyparts, because of the tired-ass bay mandate, "it's gotta look cool!" ;2)Ratchet -sorry, that shooting-a-laser-at-Bee's-neck thing and detecting-Sam's-hormone-levels thing DOES NOT a medic make. You wanna see a good example of a medic character??? Check out shows like St. Elsewhere, M.A.S.H., ER, or even Saving Private Ryan and then re-evaluate bayverse Ratchet and you'll see a glaring blatantly obvious difference;
3)bay Ironhide-partly true, yet bay and co. decided to have Sentinel Prime melt Ironhide down before we could see more character development, and again, literally because the GMC Topkick was being discontinued-you mean to tell me a beefed-up Dodge Ram, or even an Escalade, or beefed-up Chevy Suburban wouldn't have worked???!!!!! Miss me with that bullshit;
4)bayMegs-we were told that, yet Megs was repeatedly killed off, and was also Sentinel's bitch-so much so that even Rosie Huntington Whitely was given that in her scripted dialogue: to quote TFTM Galvatron, that is truly bad comedy. . .;
5)bayscream - an ugly af metallic dorito whom was killed easily by Sam with the help of wheeljackque; we DID NOT see evidence of him trying or even wanting to take baymeg's place-watch the movies again;
6)barricade-partly true, yet we saw him get his ass handed to him by Bumblebee in the scrapyard in '07, saw him get his ass handed to him again by N.E.S.T. (so much so, he basically limps himself off-screen), and then getting his ass handed to him a 3rd time (also with NO explanation how he just magically re-appeared because the bayfilms CONSISTENTLY gave ZERO F#@$s about continuity or logic)when Cade and Bee blew him away in that chase scene in the UK in TLK-again, yet another example of cannon fodder;
7)baySoundwave-I partially agree, yet again, Bee annihilates baywave by blowing his head off near the end of DOTM, another case of cannon fodder;
8)lockdown - as Autobot Burnout already made plain, this pretty much makes lockdown's existence in the bayverse assininely useless and tragically contradictory -TF Animated Lockdown was a much much better example of Lockdown; Also, IF Lockdown was the bountyhunter bay and co. told us he was, wouldn't it have made sense for him to practice self-preservation rather than having his ass handed to him by BOTH Cade and OP??? Especially since, ya know, his paycheck was "such a driving force"??????Guess his bountyhunting income didn't mean much to him afterall, huh?????; And how THE HELL did he not notice that part of his ship escaped from the rest of it????? Was that because he was all about the cybertronian benjamins, too???!!!!!And why the hell didn't we see Lockdown's employers??? Because we literally only saw their damn upper arms in one movie, and then they changed them into a robotic wannabe Xenomorphesque/Natasha Henstridge Species rip-off robot dominatrix who magically transforms into a Human Female named after the planet of the TF's creators known as the Quintessons, 'cause again, bay and co. could NEVER be bothered to logically tie things together-at all;
9)TLK Decepticons - again, they were mostly goofy-ass pieces of cannon fodder with little to no characterization: Mohawk gets his ass handed to him by Cade; Onslaught gets his ass brutally handed to him by either Drift or Crosshairs; Nitro Zeus shows up to basically play the dozens against one of his jailers: a wannabe T-Dog Jenkins from "The Dirty Dozens" segment of IN LIVIN' COLOR-which is stupid af in the first place. HOW in the hell would humans be able to lock up and detain an evil alien shape-shifting faction of robots? And why was TLK Megs meeting with humans in the desert to negotiate? Wouldn't the decepticons have the upper hand???!!!! If these bayverse decepticons were as badass as we kept being told, why didn't they just blow those humans away???!!! Ooo, Ooo! Wait! I know-because once again, bay and co. didn't give a rat's ass-they wanted to copy a Suicide Squad sequence and wanted another tired-ass cool visual, rather than character development. I stand by what I said-like the trees in the Redwood Forest.
I'm sorry, you need to go rewatch the movie, big boy.
No need, Son-You rewatch it. It goes like this: Cade stole Lockdown's gun, got a few shots in and then OP sliced Lockdown in half, after Tessa and that Irish Dude used that truck to remove Lockdown's sword from Optimus.
I glossed over your rant and here's what I have to say.
I'm not saying the movie Transformers had deep character development, they had character traits. Regarding G1 Jazz and movie Jazz, of course the robot who was in multiple episodes of a cartoon series would show more character development than a robot who was only in the film for about 5 minutes. Optimus, besides cutting of a deception's head that was endangering the lives of children he was fairly tame in the first movie. Ratchet is still a medic, not a deep thought provoking one, but he is still supposed to be one. This was a movie made to sell you some toys. If you were expecting it to be the next Godfather than that's on you. You also seem to believe that if a character gets killed in these films that means they didn't have any character, but just because you get killed though, doesn't mean you never showed a glimmer of it. I didn't care to read your essay thoroughly, because I'm aware these are dumb films about robots and I don't need you to explain that to me. Even fans of these films know this.
Although you can disagree all you want with Brawl, you're still wrong. He gets shot, falls down, and is later seen clearly getting back up. There was no clone to speak of. Rewatch his scenes. It'll literally take only a few seconds. Also you told me to watch the films again, and I did. After Megatron is killed in the first film Starscream flees to Cybertron where he leads the deceptions and never goes back to save Megatron. So I was right, he does want to betray Megatron and lead the deceptions, because he immediately does it once his leader dies. He doesn't even try to save Megatron in the first film. He flees like the coward he is.
I like these films, I support these films, and nothing will change that. Sure they can be better, but getting pissed off at robot toy movies is silly.
My point stands.
Even in the cartoons most of the characters didn't get very in depth. I'd say mainly Optimus Prime, Megatron, and Starscream....
What point?? The point is Lockdown abysmally failed to complete his mission of collecting a bounty, and he was sliced in half like a fresh catch being filleted and gutted. Why???!!!!! Because instead of: a)using an intelligent strategic approach (i.e., such as stunning and restraining Optimus, much like Lockdown did with Ratchet), and b)bay and co. once again emphasizing visuals and the cannon fodder aspect. Lockdown just had to act like a cybertronian billy badass, instead of acting in a way that would ensure completing the assignment.
Surely, he would have had the means to restrain, subdue, and tranquilize Optimus-then again, he also had a huge ship whose sensors failed to detect that a part of the ship detached from it (again, the fault of the writers, and the director) . Apparently, the money Lockdown was to be paid didn't matter one bit, and neither did the concept of self-preservation, just as Autobot Burnout has so eloquently pointed out time and time again. TF Animated Lockdown was a MUCH better characterization-my point stands like the 10,000+ year-old pyramids in Egypt, that still stand today.
At the end of the day, we can disagree-but I will call out bull$#@× when I see it. . .And the argument about "well you can't expect xyz famous classic film caliber storytelling" (which is HILARIOUS because I don't even like "The Godfather") does not negate calling out said bull#@$!. . .Neither does the fact that these stories are supposed to connect to plastic/die-cast metal counterparts. . .That is NO excuse for $hitty writing and filmmaking. . .
This topic is about the Bay designs, we don't need to argue about the ending of AOE.
Hell to the YES!! AOE/TLK Optimus is my favorite Optimus!! I would seriously love to see more of him❤️
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