Jetformer size that you prefer

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Revoticus, Apr 8, 2024.

?

Which Earth Jetformer size do you prefer

  1. Same size as the one they scanned

    28 vote(s)
    93.3%
  2. Smaller than the jets they scanned

    2 vote(s)
    6.7%
  1. BethCyra

    BethCyra I NEED MP BiG CONVOY (Rumored)

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    Can’t decide as as always context matters to much.

    I will say I prefer as close to zero as mass shifting as possible, but I also realize certain designs call for it.

    Love EarthSpark sized Jets, but I also love bigger blockier designs that mass shift too. Weirdly tend to like a lot at both ends of the extremes on this one.
     
  2. Confused Millennial

    Confused Millennial Well-Known Member

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    Split the middle; the Star Saber approach. The robot turns into part of the jet but a lot of the wings are detachable kibble. Also helps for bots that want to be close to humans but are too bulky to fit inside human houses without crawling.
     
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  3. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

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    Oh, most certainly.

    But I’m not in this hobby for social acceptance— I’m in it to enjoy it. I can only overlook so many instances of BS before the whole thing is unappealing, so I take what I like from Transformers, and what I don’t, I change. “Mass shifting” is a clumsy fictional solution for an original marketing decision that I never bought into.
     
  4. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde 狡猾の死神

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    Personally I prefer same-sized, but honestly as long as everyone isn't just flatly the same height, I don't mind if they're not EXACT.
     
  5. M'Kyuun

    M'Kyuun Well-Known Member

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    Same size eschewing mass shifting.
     
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  6. Insurgent

    Insurgent The Amazing Tango Mysterio

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    I'm fine with mass shifting when transforming. It's alien science, to us laymans, it looks like magic.


    But if we don't do mass shifting, then I'm a firm believer of robot mode size dictates alt mode size. It's how bw did it. The alt modes are the clothes they wear, they don't literally turn into that thing. Most people pick an alt mode that suits their size, but sometimes, you get a little guy who wants to be a jet or tank, or a bigger guy wanting to be a bike. In those instances, we get giant bikes and minature planes. It just adds to the absurd fun of it all.
     
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  7. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

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    I prefer altmodes to be the size they should be. Cars that are smaller than the actual models aren't much of disguise, and though the actual size of a flying jet can be difficult to discern (hence why most TF fans are completely unaware that most jets are actually really much bigger than cars) when on the ground on encountered by other jets, an undersized jet will stand out.

    But I'm also not a big fan of mass shifting. At least not as the semi-magical mass shifting we get with someone like Soundwave transforming into a tiny cassetteplayer.

    Jets, though much bigger than cars, often have very little mass to them. Plus real jets are relatively fragile, because otherwise they won't fly. Thus with jets I can imagine that parts slide into each other. (With the toy you often have parts like legs sliding out for robot mode and in for jetmode, but what I mean is the other way around: parts compressing into each other for robotmode and extending for altmode.)

    But it would still mean robots from jets would be bigger, albeit thanks to the compression in robot mode more in-line with robots made from cars. As such I also very much think the size of the altmode should correspond to some level with the size of the jetmode. A jet like the F16 is already small for a jet (still large compared to a car) and has very little mass, so it will end up a robot about the same size as a large carbot, while a robot made from an F-15 will even with parts compression remain pretty large.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2024
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  8. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I think with telescoping technology, something kin to “mass shifting”, could very likely be achieved

    in Other words, characters, like to seekers, can be the appropriate size in their vehicle mods, and still closer to the autobots cars in size when in reboot mode

    Although this idea probably won’t work for Toy’s. I’m just talking about the fiction.
     
  9. imfallenangel

    imfallenangel Well-Known Member

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    Pretty condescending speech there Jimbo.

    Maybe most understand it better than you do and accept that a perfect scale would mean deluxe cars to be matched to leader and commander class for seekers/planes, which isn't going to happen and probably never will.

    Fiction scale tends to be plot driven so doesn't really matters. Even the live movies couldn't stay consistent.
     
  10. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

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    Don't make a fool of yourself.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2024
  11. imfallenangel

    imfallenangel Well-Known Member

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    No worries, I won't drop to your level .

    Goodbye.
     
  12. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

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    Jets actually have quite a bit of mass to them, and are denser than you’re suggesting. Consider that an F-15 (Seeker) is about 4.3x longer than a 280ZX (Prowl) but weighs over 10x more (without fuel). That’s counter to the argument you’re posing.
     
  13. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

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    Not mass as in weight, but in usable space to form a robot.

    Hope I can explain what I mean.

    The F15 is likely one of the more massive jets, so getting a robot out of that isn't that difficult: there's enough to work with, as proven with the MP's despite their little cheats.

    But a jet like the F-16 is not only smaller, but there's also not much to it: it's wings attached to a thin fuselage. At the same scale as a car (1:1 in real life or toy scale of 1:30?) it still is big enough, but a transformation whereby everything ends up the same size results in a robot with very thin limbs and torse. Prime Starscream did this. I've got this scale model of a F16 on the shelf and it has very little substance to it. Remove the wings, parts that usually aren't used in the transformation, and there just isn't much left. If it were to be turned into a robot you don't get much.

    My idea is to compress parts into one and other during transformation to robotmode and to spread parts out when transforming to altmode.

    (But for a toy this can't work of couse)
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2024
  14. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

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    I guess I could see it working for a hollow toy— where things only need to appear realistic— but not a real fighter jet. An F-16 isn’t hollow. From the middle of the wings rearward, it’s pretty much just engine. And aside from the cockpit, there’s not much collapsible space in a jet, unless you empty the fuel tanks. I could see the fuselage folding up beside itself, but not into itself. Rather than a tall, lean robot, I could envision a shorter, fatter one, but even if you were to fold it down to half the length of the jet, it’s still going to be a robot that’s 25’ tall. And it would probably be nearly as wide.

    As aircraft go, the cargo jets could condense down more— given that they’re basically giant tubes— but the fighter jets are pretty trim. There’s not much wasted space in them.
     
  15. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

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    Yep, that is indeed a serious hindrance, and really just one of many problems why it can't work. But then isn't it our duty as fans to make sense of the fiction?! :D  One possible explanation would be that the TF aren't really the altmode they turn into, or else they wouldn't be able to become a functioning robot. Thus the space taken in by the machinery that makes a real jet work, would be absent in a TF jet: like the engines wouldn't run almost throughout the jet, but be much smaller since their advanced alien tech. (That or you'd get nano tech that which would result in the transformation being more than just changing the shape of the altmode and fundamentally changing everything about the altmode.)

    Like you I dislike mass shifting, but at the same time I want characters to be able to interact, which I don't see happening due to the enormous size difference between a robot formed from a car and one from a jet. I also really dislike the idea to make jetformers limited to special characters (Titans) because I like the variety of altmodes in both looks, concept and what they bring to the table in case of combat.

    Thus, I want TF's to transform into correctly sized altmodes be it cars or jets, I want the variety of the different altmodes and what it means for combat situations, I want the characters to be able to interact which only works if their robot sizes aren't wildly different, and I don't want mass shifting....

    In fiction, the only way I see that this can happen is if somehow the cars become a bit bigger when transforming into robots (extending parts) and the jets becoming smaller (collapsing parts). And of course a smart selection of jet types: smaller robots into smaller jets and huge robots like Jetfire or Broadside into huge jets (cargo planes or something like the B-1 Lancer).

    For toys I don't see this happening at all. You'd indeed end up with needing Commanders or Leader class toys for the jets that then transform into Voyager class robots. So for toys I've basically resigned myself to wanting jets to be clearly bigger than cars but not in the correct scale -- like how with the MP's the seekers are about half the scale the cars are: 1:60 for seekers and about 1:30 for cars, which though wrong has a form of symmetry.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2024
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  16. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

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    I never really needed the toy jets and cars to be in scale with each other because their environments are different. The cars don’t fly and the jets don’t drive around on the ground, so my brain doesn’t see a conflict.
    The size of the minibot alt modes, however, always bugged me. As did those of Constructicons and pretty much every vehicle-based Scramble City team.
     
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  17. KFGatri

    KFGatri Madman with a Blue Box

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    That's actually not far from toy accurate scaling. If Runamuck had separate legs ... or actual legs, that is.
     
  18. Prime Noble

    Prime Noble Well-Known Member

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    I like my figures to try and keep as close as possible to a uniform and realistic vehicle scale.

    20231204_211624.jpg 20231204_210941.jpg 20231204_211448.jpg 20231128_200042.jpg 20180127_012150.jpg 20231128_200759.jpg
     
  19. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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  20. Runamuck86

    Runamuck86 Well-Known Member

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    I dont mind vehicles being smaller , works for micro masters and mini cons so why not the bigger bots ?