From James Roberts' twitter:

I think there's a lot of room for discussion here. I'll write out my thoughts later...

 

It seems James is having a little niggle back at his critics at the moment, first using the CoL as critic stand ins, then the apology and explanation about the prose story, and now this. Good stuff, but I hope he doesn't let it concern him too much.

 

just like the mary sue criticism its one of those things which often gets over simplified to something which means the person saying it simply doesn't like it.

When said in a negative sense I always see it as something which un-adventurously gives the fans what they think they want which is usually loads of references to previous fiction from the heyday of the franchise and obscure characters for fans with a more scenster snoby natures but forgets to be competent, enjoyable or original fiction in its own right.

mtmte is the least fan-fictiony thing out there for me as it really is pushing the fiction into places it wouldn't dare tread before in terms of complexity and depth whilst also staying true to the franchise's low brow fun roots

If anything is looking a little guilty I would be looking slightly in the direction of the team behind monstrosity. An obvious non transformer example official fanfiction to me is the film mortal kombat annihilation

 

I suppose my understanding of it would be when a writer introduces a lot of their own unique ideas into cannon that might be a little more outlandish or atypical of what went before.

You could say MTME is fan-fiction-y because of things like Ultra Magnus' secret or Star Sabers depiction being more in line with Robert's own version of him in his fan-fiction Eugenisis, as they vary from what we've seen before in prior cartoon's, comics, etc. (I of course think this is great)

I'd say most critics just aren't happy that everything isn't GeeWun as fook.

Personally I think that the so-called fan-fiction-y elements are much better than paying slavish lip service to a cartoon series that is pushing thirty.

 

I am not going to snub fan fiction. Some of the good ideas they have will work if done correctly. I actually don't mind an author from a comic take from them as long it does not lower the work. It means that if an idea enhances the story line and should not matter where it comes from as long it is presented well.

MTMTE I am going say that it is suffering from Eugenesis which being compared to rightly or wrongly....which was fanfiction.

My main complaint is the pacing sometimes James Roberts is rushing to meet the deadlines and makes some arcs feel rushed. The depth of writing is superb and professional but the subject matter is sometimes will risk debate and fights. It is pushing the edge by reflecting what is going on in society and some people will not like it. I guess try find flaws with the work. MTMTE makes people think about things that they will not normally consider. Like Equal rights and what constitute as a loving relationship.

 

The last thing we need is Roberts listening to the fans.

It'll poison the last pure well of talent in Transformers.

 

I'd say the whole current writer team at IDW are doing pretty well, but your right, he should ignore the fans.

Those guys like the dreamwave comics for some reason.

 

This. If you think it's poor writing, you should use call it "amateur" or "poor quality".

 

Agreed, ignore the fans.....

 

Pretty much agree with the pacing part, though I doubt MTMTE is going to cause any form of social controversy. I highly doubt it, in fact.

Other than that, I don't see fanfic-y-ness present. My only real complaint is that the comic relief is a little too excessive. Characters are a little over the top sometimes. Characterization can be done without witty banter, and I feel like some grounding is in order to make them less... ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, the characters are fantastic, but it's okay to be serious. It doesn't have to be GRIMDARK, but there's a balance. "Chaos Theory" and Eugenesis were excellent and they didn't rely on this snarkyness.

That, and there are several exposition-y bits of dialogue that are just cringe-worthy. Like, for example, Whirl's schpeal in #19. "Anger's an insulator." Puh-lease. Whirl's one of my favorites, but that was cringe-worthy.

But it's still the best piece of TF fiction to come around in recent years, so you're okay Roberts. I forgive you.

 

Thanks for the heads-up Greyley! It is an interesting question so I tried to answer him as honestly as possible.

"I think 'fanfic' is pejorative cos no filter to publication; the maxim '90% of everything is crap' is more prominent. Also, it is more bold and idiosyncratic in its character building and worldbuilding, which can be excellent or terrible.
Things in your work that made me think of fanfic (NOT a complaint): importance of OCs, Rung having a bright spark, the way that you clearly establish/clarify "rules" of the TF universe and allude to a vast and largely unknown history. New concepts, important to characters, yet never mentioned before: forged, functionism, MMM, .01%, outliers, etc.
Frankly you write like a great fantasy author and not like bland corporate comfort food. Some don't know what to make of that. I honestly think many TF fans won't admit it but they like bland-ish Cs and an unchanging 'verse to mentally insert their toys."

 

Yeah, the TF fandom is the last thing anyone should take input from.

 

I feel that Roberts has been given stewardship of a section of the Transformers universe, as such I feel like everything he creates/writes is 'official' fiction - not 'fan' fiction. Unless of course his writing is retconned away into continuity never-never land by IDW.

Personally I've never thought Roberts' writing was 'fanfiction-y' - he's expanding the world of Transformers into territories we've never seen before and I like his original characters because they fit into his universe so well (I mean they would, wouldn't they?) and provide different viewpoints from the traditional Heroic Autobot and Evil Decepticon.

 

I am guess I am trying say I don't care if great ideas come from fanfiction as long they are great. If an idea works it doesn't matter the source is.

It is more polish than fanfiction I mean Roberts work. I read the stuff it is like low grade romance novels with one dimensional characters that whole purpose is a happy ever after relationship that is to risque for Disney Movies. Someone said they 90% crap and he or she is correct they are. They are cheaper than romance novels at the grocery store for sure.

The fact the Autobots are not always heroic and Decepticons have some ethics and even good qualities makes the characters more fleshed out. It is reason why I like IDW nothing is black and white everything shade of grey.

As for the pacing...I am not sure of a solution other than give James Roberts a Tardis to make sure he can meet deadlines.

I am not great writer to honest I suck at it. I am going say I am sure some or most of it fits the 90% group. I notice one thing is people is reading my fics.

 

Hit the nail right on the head! It's like the "Mary-sue-do-not-steel" complaint some people have been throwing around for his characters when in reality the fact of the matter is that most of these characters have been FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER (in a fiction, not the toy bios there they always had personalities. I need to point that out before SMOG kills me  ) given any sort of semblance of a personality as well as the fact that his OC's have personalities as well.

And Transformers fans are confused as shit by that.

See when you ask a person to describe a character from their favourite series like say Heisenberg from Breaking Bad what will they say? Will they say "Oh man I like him because he's an old man with a sexy mustache that looks awesome with a hat!". No, of course not! Most people will talk about his character and the way he acts and about his action etc.

For another example, no one liked Tyrion Lannister JUST BECAUSE he's a dwarf. People like him because he's a smart-mouthed drunk or because of his sympathy for fellow outcasts and the mistreated or that even with his deformity he managed to hold quite a bit of influence and power in the world.

On the other hand with Transformers for many fans liking a character is almost exclusively limited to "I like his design!" or "I like his colours" or "I had him as a kid" or "I like his altmode" or variations of that with sometimes added bonus of "he did that one thing in one episode of G1 that I remember" or "he had a funny voice".

Almost NEVER will you get a "because I like his character" reason, in fact to many people "character = the design" as seen in the Ultra Magnus shitstorm that happened.

So for people to actually see characters be treated like actual characters is just an alien thing that they either don't get or they don't go with their imaginary (non-existant) personality for a character so they throw the usual "MARY SUUUUUE!!!" curse on anything that isn't bland, dull souless trash like the Dreamwave comics.

 

Thanks guys!

I tweeted a short answer to James Roberts, but then I realised my actual answer would require 20+ tweets and didn't want to spam the guy  

But really, most of you have practically said everything I wanted to say.

-I agree the term has a pejorative connotation because there's simply a lot of fan-written crap out there. It's probably mostly youngsters with much to learn, and not so many terribly untalented 'seniors', but still: it's there.

-the difference between fan art and fan fics is that humans pick up and accept visuals much easier than written stuff. Even if a piece of fan art took 100 hours, and a written story only 2, there's that subconscious idea that the art is pretty, and that the story probably took way too long...why are you fantasizing about fictional characters, creep?!!1
(of course, even for fan art there's a maximum before people think you're uninspired).

-I agree that there's simply people who have NO clue how to present their arguments, and start using terms like 'fanficcy' and 'mary sues' without really knowing the meaning.
Then there's also people (in any fandom actually, but since I'm in a TF fandom, I'm going to say RIGHT HERE) who cannot make the difference between a bad product and something being of quality, but just not being your thing.
Not liking the art (because you don't like cartoon-style) instantly becomes 'THE ART SUCKS, THE ARTIST IS HORRIBLE'. Not liking the story - even if it's simply the story taking another route than that person imagined it would go in his/her head - makes some people shout FANFICCY.

 

You do realize that GEEWUN only applies to people who only consider 84-85 canon. Star Saber isn't GEEWUN and neither is Ultra Magnus. I hate when this term is misused especially when Star Saber is now this fascistic villain. I watched Victory, and I love Star Saber. People really need to know their terminology.

Yeah, destroy established characters for the convince of the author rather than use other characters that could already fill that void.

Why do you insult people who treasure certain characters? It would be like YOU ARE GEEWUN BECAUSE YOU LIKE ROBERT'S CYCLONUS 30 years into the future. Ridiculous.

 

I wasn't aware it was that strictly defined, honestly! I take it as a generic insult to old-timey fans who don't like most of the changes in the franchise since the mid-80s.

 

I like the comic relief. It helps draw a sharp contrast between it and when things get serious. Because, when they get serious, they get wicked serious (Ex: Overlord squashing poor Pipes like a bug).

Is it excessive? Maybe.

^This. I feel like it gets overused. It seems like sometimes it used merely on people who like or have a preference for original G1 stuff (Cartoon and Marvel Comics).

Now, this, I think, could be construed as being fanfiction-y, as this is apparently how Roberts portrayed him in his fanfiction. Though, this isn't exactly unprecedented with him, as we saw him take similar liberties with Pyro, Rotorstorm and, most famously, Overlord; taking characters who had little to no characterization (At least in the English-speaking world, anyways) or rather generic profiles and putting his own spin on them. Now, Star Saber did have his own characterization prior to More Than Meets The Eye, but I think Roberts may have seen it on same level as Rotorstorm and Pyro: Heroic, but not necessarily the way people may have been expecting.

 

Man, I love your rants. Seriously.