No, actually, what you do is drown others' arguments in an endless sea of text. That's a standard strategy, scream out your opinion until everyone else gives up.

And yes, that IS an opinion. That reveal didn't destroy any goodwill with me, quite the opposite, actually. And I'm not a fan of the other movies, so this reveal appealed to me enough to make me want to see the movie.

Stop talking as if your opinion is everyone's opinion. I'm part of the fanbase and I'm neither frustrated nor angry at the studio.

What I see is people trying to have a mostly civilised discussion and you screaming at everyone until they have to bail to wipe all the spittle off their faces.

Cya
Raziel-chan

 

I wasn't aware that going into detail to explain my stance was 'drowning' other people's arguments.

I was speaking in general, not all-encompasing, since the dissent is out there. Just because you aren't upset about the meaning behind the nameslap doesn't mean others aren't.

I never speak if my opinion is everyone's opinion. The fact is that many people are upset about this, but somehow when I come along to provide an explanation, suddenly I'm speaking about everybody and thus in the wrong?

Then go ahead and put me on ignore.

 

Dude hasn’t even seen AoE despite ranting about it all the time. All credibility he would have is immediately tossed out the window.

 

Yeah, it's kind of hard to really have a conversation about something without having seen it. I used to do that with these movies a long time ago, but my opinions changed after I actually sat down and watched them. You can read a plot synopsis and criticize the story, but there's a lot more to a movie than just that. Humor, acting, action, special effects, pacing. You certainly can't judge pacing based on a synopsis, or even a handful of YouTube scenes. I learned that from AOE. I thought I had seen most of the movie via YouTube clips, but I was shocked just how much the pacing differed from what I expected when I actually saw it all in order.

 

No, sometimes there really isn't. What's next, you're going to tell me that Terminator: Salvation is good, too? Or maybe the Twilight Saga while you're at it?

I mean, I can tolerate a bad movie - FFS I actually like Episode II: Attack of the Clones unironically - but AoE is absolute shit. There's nothing redeemable about it as far as I'm concerned and I have better things to do than waste three hours of my life to watch something I am already predisposed to hate every waking second of. I am biased, yes, but I'm also aware that I'm so far biased that even watching the film is going to

Oh yes, I can. Why should I watch a three hour borefest of shitty robot designs and unfinished plotting (seriously, The Creators are barely a thing that exist simply to explain why Lockdown is around - just replace Creators with Decepticons and it's the same plot as far as those laser mining fucks are concerned) because you apparently had some kind of epiphany and thus I have to vallidate your opinions? Even if I did decide I hated life itself and subjected myself to Age of Excrement, all you would get was me having MORE reasons to fucking hate its existence and why I consider it the point of downfall for the films - which TLK's failure at the box office to meet a revenue point even the first film did only supports.

Humor? The films have always struggled with this and AoE having such amazing things like that stupid as fuck Romeo and Juliet card scene - which doesn't even make realistic sense because Tessa is of legal age under Texas state law - or stopping an action sequence dead in its tracks so Mark Whalberg can reach down and pick up a can of beer and drink it. Or a guy getting punched in the face with a car and his face not exploding into a shower of red blood from one-point-five tons being rammed into his skull head-on.

Acting? None of the humans I ever gave a shit about are in AoE.

Action? Special effects? This is the fourth film and you expect me to be wowed by the robots this time around? I really don't give a damn about special effects anymore since you can have films like Valerian and the City of a Thousand Worlds which is great with effects but a total snooze fest with the plot. You need some kind of plot substance to hold the fancy images together and AoE just does not have that.

Pacing? Holy shit, even people who like the film are on record as saying it did not need to be almost three hours in length.

There's nothing AoE can deliver that can make me change my mind. You know the saying 'you can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink it'? I'm too far gone to ever possibly like AoE. Every single aspect of it makes me hate it and everyone involved with it.

 

This is golden!

If you're going to come in and bash the most recent films every chance you get, and your opinion is to be considered valid, then you need to watch the actual movie to form an informed opinion.

You just admitted you never watched it.

And that's the problem with a lot of the hatred for the most recent films: They're hated not so much for their quality but for their existence, when the differences in quality between RotF and TLK or between DotM and AoE are not that great. The earlier films are just safer and more familiar to most Transformers fans, even if the difference in overall quality between the OT and newer films is trivial.

And for the record, I really liked the fourth film, and I was fine with its length. My only real issues were the editing in certain scenes, Shane's characterization, Li Bingbing and Myles not having much to their characters, and maybe a few nitpicks here and there, the last couple points which don't even really bother me that much. Otherwise, it's easily my favorite of all five films for many reasons.

 

Hmm, given how my opinions seem to align with all the major critics, it seems like people who actually HAVE seen the thing share the same opinion.

I have seen the film, but because I hated it so much I wasn't really paying attention, and the only people who would give enough of a damn about that also all happen to have convinced themselves - yourself included- that I didn't see the film because I'm not head over heels in love with it like you all are and can't recall most of the non-existent plot. So I might as well tell you people a little of what you want to hear since it doesn't matter what the truth is anymore, because you can't prove I've seen it or not, can you?

Hmm, remind me how many aspect ratios the film cycles through again? I think it was three?

Most films...don't do that. Because it's really bad.

Given how often you rush to its defense, like every time anybody (or really, just me these days) insults the damn thing, it's like the bat signal for you to come in.

You 'really liking' AoE is a vast understatement to put it mildly.

If nothing else, you're actually acknowledging problems with the film for the first time that I can recall.

It's almost like the only reason at least one of those two have in being in the film is because AoE milked that Chinese box office so hard in various ways, such as having a big name chinese actor simply in the film.

Or, you know, big name actors being used to draw in people into shitty films. Like Pat Morita being on the cover of this film you've never heard of:


And he's not really even a character - more of a prop who shows up for like, five minutes and doesn't do anything special.

I'm not sure how that has to do with anything given it's already been established we strongly disagree about just about everything regarding that film, so what you can easily overlook or even like, generally ends up being something I think is complete trash and detrimental.

 

I almost subjected Burnout to an AoE watching session, but he managed to escape. Also the movie killed itself after they rescued Optimus from the ship and nobody else wanted to restart.


But we'll get 'em next time.

 

I escaped from that stupid bone-shaped pod with the sentient gumball machine and that golden scrapheap, YOU'RE NOT GETTING ME THIS TIME, FORRESTER!

 

You should watch the movie. Lockdown's pretty damn cool. Like a Predator flick.

If you're a movie critic in any way then it's sort of your job to suffer through it,lol.
It's only about 3 days long ,you can take a break each day.

 

  This thread was entertaining as shit to read let me tell you. But for real, people just need to WAIT AND SEE. A lot can and will change in the upcoming months until release. And really? complaining about name slapping at this point?  

 

So you're saying that you can't watch it and form your own opinion?

 

My opinion is already made. It would be pointless to watch the film again. You all just seem so convinced that I'd like the film if I gave it another chance when giving it a chance in the first place was a serious mistake. I hate everything about the film, from the robot designs to Mark Whalberg (overrated as fuck actor if you ask me) to the humans being OP as fuck and not learning shit from the past three films, to Lockdown being a really boring looking motherfucker who is just a lame proxy because the writers coudn't be bothered to make actual third party villains fully, to the fact that the film's plot resolves entirely around burning down everything that I liked about the first three films before it.

I'm not watching that shitshow again simply so a bunch of people on the internet who defend the film zealously can just go and tell me that I didn't watch it or that I didn't watch it properly because even if I did watch it, you people are so ingrained to hate my opinions that it doesn't even matter - the only way you people would believe me is if I somehow had a subconscious awakening and started praising AoE like the best goddamn thing in the entire franchise. And that's not happening, because there is nothing about AoE I could possibly like.

You people all like AoE and that's fine, but stop acting like somebody can only have seen the film and hold nothing but praise for it such that you all apparently regard it like finding your life's purpose. It's really kind of weird.

 

That's fine @Autobot Burnout. I was merely asking but did not intend to aggravate you any further.

Personally, I don't care if you liked AoE or any of the movies and I'm definitely not trying to change your mind.

 

There is near zero chance that the majority of critics were ever going to give a fourth live action Transformers directed by Bay a fair shot.

And yes, regardless of what one's opinion of a film, chances are there will be someone else who shares a near identical opinion.

Opinions are not only individual but cultural. The popular opinions of fans, critics, and general audience members depend not only on the individual, but in the cultural context in which those individuals live. Critics, living in a cultural context where over-the-top, explosive summer blockbusters with CGI robots running around and Bay's direction style are not well liked, are most likely not going to like a fourth live action Transformers film much.

I'm not saying the first bold part isn't true. I can only take your word for it.

However, the bold AND italicized is not why people question whether you've seen the film. It's that you have said things about the film that just aren't true, like in the past making it sound like Cemetery Wind was working alone. I just want you to be aware how others might come to that conclusion.

See, you can not like it, but AoE was not detrimental to the brand. I can understand not liking it; I don't understand the "Ruined FOREVER" attitude toward it or any of the films.

 

Anyone considered the fact that this new Bee movie was always (potentially) INTENDED to be a get out of jail card for the franchise? If the bayverse continued to fall then this gave them a chance to reinvent the wheel and perhaps open up a whole new universe and timeline being that it happens before all the others and all!? This rewriting history and giving paramount the chance to correct their wrongdoing thus far

Anyway good to be back not posted since last knight bombed although I did love cogman  

 

So the solution to the Bayverse failing is....The Bayverse starting over, still under the authority of the same people, with slight aesthetic differences?

 

Exactly my point, though - those people DID see the film in a way you can't deny, since that's their job, they didn't like it, and then you go and invent a reason why their opinions suddenly shouldn't count. Also my point about how trying to watch the film again wouldn't mean anything, because I already saw the stupid thing, hated it, and because I'm predisposed to not give the film a fair chance, wasting three hours of my life would yield no different results.

And just as much, people will hold OPPOSITE opinions.

And yet you get films like Furious 7 where it's a silly plot to the point the film makes no illusions to it being nothing more than the string tying together high-adrenaline action sequences involving improbable stunts, humans defying logic and physics, lots of gunfire and explosions and faces getting punched, and heavy CGI use. And critics seem to like THOSE films even though the plot isn't trying to tell some 'epic' history about aliens and humanity constantly getting screwed over because the plot demands it.

By your logic, critics are somehow completely against the idea of over the top summer blockbusters, and yet you have films like the Expendable franchise which while rarely crossing the 50% RT mark, still pull well above 40% while Transformers can't pull above that except for the first film which holds 57%. And they certainly aren't against Michael Bay given his pride and joy project: Pain and Gain, is pulling a 50% rating as well.

So, if critics are actually just fine with loud noises, rediculous over the top actions and explosions galore, and they don't hate Michael Bay enough to just blast his films into total oblivion like the Transformers films, clearly there's something else wrong. Like I dunno, maybe the writing not being sure what the hell it's supposed to be doing half the time?

Cemetery Wind was just embarrassing - you went from Sector 7 who could take down Transformers on their own, to NEST who could go up against transformers on their own as well as with Autobot support...to suddenly a bunch of idiot mercenaries who can't do anything significant without that silver faced bastard doing the heavy lifting for them?

Hell, in TLK those TRF losers get demolished fairly easily yet at the same time were able to hold MULTIPLE Decepticons incarcerated and Megatron couldn't just barge in, kill everybody, and then drag his goons out. And TRF didn't have Lockdown, which means they were more capable than what amounted to a black-ops rogue government program connected to KSI which could build robots more advanced than Cybertronians.

So, forgive me in thinking CW could even function on its own as a threat without Lockdown's help. Apparently they suck even more than TRF if they couldn't even work alone at any single point of their existence.

Instead of ending with DOTM and starting over fresh, Paramount gets greedy and decides to try pushing the envelope. The result is AoE, the laziest attempt at a non-reboot ever because it just straight up kills off all the good guys and fucks them over while the humans go back to basically kissing the ass of the bad guys.

AoE does well in China, convincing Paramount and Hasbro they can just shovel bullshit with no real plot or effort in it and people around the world would just eat that shit up to the tune of a billion dollars. This for whatever reason makes Paramount think they can spin this into something to rival the MCU, so they throw together a writer's room to placate the shareholders.

From that writer's room, they make TLK, which completely disposes of any plot threads AoE tried to set up in favor of some bullshit about robots in medieval times (which ITSELF is insignificant beyond establishing a weird plot device and the weak 'knight' theme that, again, doesn't really play into anything of importance regarding Cybertron being smashed into the face of the Earth). China does not save the film this time, leading to the lowest box office in franchise history and Paramount scrambling to try and salvage its dead-on-arrival cinematic universe.

AoE began the cancer that is hurting the franchise by convincing Paramount and Hasbro that they can do no wrong no matter how bad the film does in reviews. TLK merely is the result of them not taking the warning signs such as the massively falling domestic box office and the fact they made so much in China only because they literally had the Chinese government helping them promote the film. Bad decisions, bad designs trying to make the alien robots more humanoid for no real reason, a complete rejection of the concept of 'disguise' because of the overabundance of supercars the studio can't even BUY (meaning nothing was learned from the whole Dino/Ferrari fiasco), and Michael Bay abusing the budget to go film all over the world when most of what was filmed outside of major locations like Stonehenge could have easily been replicated in a studio with a green screen.

Yes, AoE made a billion dollars, but it set things on a course that ensured the production of the embarrassing fifth installment which cost Paramount far more than just another billion dollar name on the list of all-time highest grossing films. Massive restructuring, the crippling loss of the HuaHua Media contract for funding future Transformers films, the collapse of the once-valuable Chinese box office bubble, and other smaller factors which contribute to Paramount being in serious financial trouble at present.

Had AoE not been made, or at the very least not tried to be a reboot short of actually rebooting, we wouldn't be in the position we are currently. TLK did the damage, but AoE was the fuse being lit. Had it been stopped, then TLK wouldn't have happened and Transformers would at least be in a far better position than it is currently. Instead, everything is now riding on the performance of a film which just so happened to generate a lot of ill-will by pulling a bait-and-switch with that Starscream design.

Oh, no, Bumblebee was never originally meant to be the get-out-of-jail free card, especially since SO confirmed Paramount straight up tried to cancel the film when it became evident TLK would underperform so badly against even lowered expectations. What we're getting now is Paramount's best dressing up of a film they couldn't afford to get rid of for whatever reason. And given how non-comittal everything seems even at this point about if BB will restart the franchise or just be another entry, it's looking more like it isn't a reboot. After all, the original point of the film was merely to pad out the 'Transformers Cinematic Universe' by capitalizing on Bumblebee between TLK and the then-still-greenlit TLK sequel.

 

What about Bobby Bolivia's voice in the trailer?

 

The interviewer actually asks Travis Knight whether it's a prequel or a reboot in this video:

He doesn't really answer, he says that's for the marketing team to decide.

To me that confirms that it's in the Bayverse. I mean, I suppose Bobby Bolivia could exist in a different continuity too, but it seems like the point of using the narration was to call back to the '07 film. That would be pointless if it were a different universe. That would be like putting Agent Fowler's voice in the trailer for Combiner Wars.