I mean, we haven't gotten an original idea since Beast Wars and Beast Machines, every series since then as been the same basic plot: Autobots team up with humans to defeat Megatron, and Megatron is betrayed by Starscream. It has gotten old, even if the series is good, like TFA. It worked with G1, but Armada, Energon, and now Prime, it has really gotten predictable. Why don't they make a new big bad? Why does it have to be Megatron. Well here's my theory:

Transformers is a show that promotes toys, and Hasbro is afraid to tread into new territory with the series because they think maybe their fanbase won't like it. Is there anything the toons can't do? Let's just say they did a series without Megatron for once, or maybe have a different Autobot main character-not Optimus, maybe a different Prime. What if the toys don't sell, and the series in is in toilet. Man, what I wouldn't give to not have my head shoved in the toilet by bullies at school again. Think of the variety, there would have to be the token black character or the token female character, this could bring in new fans for the series.

As far as Prime goes, we can only thank the Hub fanboys for keeping the series this way. This is why I wish the creators would ask for fan input, and maybe we'd get a home run like Beast Wars again, during a time where the creators weren't afraid to try new things! Then Transformers could be a new golden age.

 

1: This is just this thread, but worded differently.
2. Allow me to quote myself,

 

I don't think it's an issue of fear, so much as brand equity. It's pretty much been openly stated that there will always be an Optimus Prime and a Megatron, probably because the conflict between the two is seen as such a core of their characters and the concept, in the "main active continuity". There have been plenty of instances where they've messed with the formula outside of that continuity, such as the comics, the majority of the Japanese continuity, Rescue bots, etc. etc.


You're making the common fallacy that the fandom drives the franchise. We don't. The majority of activity for the brand in terms of financial support and viewership comes from children, and they will continue to be the most focused-upon demographic as a result, even if things like the movies and comics are aimed at a more general audience (which ties somewhat into why those off-main-continuity things are often more willing to go in a different direction with the concepts and characters).

You're also making the common fallacy of equating "things I don't like" with "things that are bad for the brand", and "things that I want" with "things that would be good for the brand".

 

Stares intently at Zaur, points to Judd Nelson (1986), then proceeds to smack you.

 

Like I said in the other thread:



New, inovative, fresh, different and fun.

That's the magic of this brand, there is always something for everyone. You just need to look.

 

well yes it technically has but does that make it bad by default? not in my opinion, yes it has got a formula and standard set up but any franchise that has existed for longer than say 20 years has well established lore and writers can add subtle original spins on existing characters and introduce there own original concepts like mech, shadowplay and DJD.

 

It's played out for those of us who have been around it for a long time, because it's a lot of re-hashing of older characters/concepts, but it will always be new to people who are new to the fandom. New fans are being created every day, but I do agree that I lost some interest due to it being almost 30 years at this point, but that's not really anyone's fault.

 

If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Granted, something other than Megatron and Optimus would be nice, I'm not going to get upset just because they're the core of most series.

 

I always feel like the main focus line needs Prime, Megs and Screamer but everything else in that era can go into its own direction.

 

Jack knows what's up! I haven't had a chance to read those comics yet but I hear good things about them. And Rescue Bots definitely steps outside the formula and does a great job I feel. Love that show for it's different take on the franchise.

 

I just think the Hub fanboys aren't going to do anything different. Take MLP, I don't watch that show because I've been raised to believe that blackbirds belong with blackbirds and doves with doves, meaning boys shouldn't watch girl shows, but the MLP fanbase influenced the direction of the series. The writers listened to what the fans wanted, and that how the series is the most popular on the Hub, and why Prime isn't. Hub fanboys are different from bronies because they like EVERYTHING on the Hub. They mostly want Prime to stay with the usual formula.

Another problem I have is with Bulkhead and Fowler being the sort of token black characters with Arcee being the token female Autobot and Archnid being the female Decepticon. This is alienating female Transformers fans, because the only reason their on the show is for Prime fanboys to drool over. That isn't right, we need positive role models on Hub shows. Anyone who drools over these characters needs to revaluate their lifestyle, and I make sure whenever a new Prime action figure hits the shelves, that my parents pay for it.

We need a series that breaks the ice when it comes to the standard plot, and bring something fresh to the series and bring in new fans.

 

So is this this "my parents buy me stuff" thing going to be your gimmick? Because it seems like you're bringing it up essentially every post, and it's looking more and more like you're clumsily tacking it on.

Also, you do realize the phrase "blackbirds belong with blackbirds and doves belong with doves" was a metaphor against miscegenation, right? You SURE you want to publicly admit agreeing to it?

In relation to the "Hub Fanboys" comment, they're not the ones writing the shows, and as I stated before, they have little to no weight in terms of determining it's content. Even in the case of MLP, the level of "fan-input" has been nearly nothing (the name of one character, that was later retconned IIRC). You yourself stated that you want more fan-input in your shows, but now you're saying that fans would maintain the status quo? Which is it?

I agree with you in that I'd like to see more deviation from the standard formula, and as much as I want them to move away from the standard cast of characters, I can understand why they'd haven't yet (though progress is being made), since it is at it's core a business endeavor. In terms of actual plots, we've probably seen more innovation in the last five years than in the last ten, which is good.

 

Outside of Derpy's inclusion as a Where's Waldo type hunt and the bit part where she was a voiced character in one episode (which did not go over well with some people, mind you), the fandom for MLP:FIM has NOT influenced the direction of the show, contrary to what you believe. You state you refuse to watch the show, which there in itself invalidates every thing you say because unless you KNOW you're not going to like the show from having actually experienced it, you're making shit up about stuff you do not know or even begin to understand. If you got of your bigoted soapbox and gave the series a chance, you'd see that the characters, despite being brightly colored ponies, have more character than most of the cast of Prime COMBINED, even the one shot characters, whether or not you actually liked the series.

Where was it established Bulkhead was supposed to be black?

Considering the show is meant to sell toys to pre-teen boys, I don't think alienating the female fans of Transformers is exactly a concern for the show here.

Hopefully not by YOUR definition of "role model".

Words can not describe how much this sentence accurately describes how hypocritical you are. Because WHY would you buy the toys with your parent's money if you despise the show?

I mean, I know I was hard on eagc7 a while back because he kind of does the same thing, but at least he actually likes some of the designs, while you seem to hate everything about Prime in general.

Called Rescue Bots. Watch it. It's good.

 

I now like all the designs. my opinion slowly changed as time passed  

 

I said I want Transformers fans to have more input, not Hub fanboys. People who have watched G1 and Beast Wars, not the Hub fanboys who jumped on the transformers bandwagon when Prime aired, who probably never even watch a single episode of G1. Verteran fans of the series probably have a feel for it more than the writers, and they're the ones they writers should ask input for.

[quoteI agree with you in that I'd like to see more deviation from the standard formula, and as much as I want them to move away from the standard cast of characters, I can understand why they'd haven't yet (though progress is being made), since it is at it's core a business endeavor. In terms of actual plots, we've probably seen more innovation in the last five years than in the last ten, which is good.[/QUOTE] THANK you. Exactly!

Well obviously your a brony and so who I'm not going to get an unbiased view of MLP from. Sorry, but it's a show for girls, and if my parents saw me watching it, they might take me to girl's aisle of the toy store.

Uh, mostly his voice.

Well as a teenage male I can say that i don't agree with this statment. If there were a more variety of girl characters, not just Arcee, then that would bring in more female viewers, meaning more peoples' parents buying the toys, more money in Hasbro's pocket, which means more Transformers for us.

Where did I define role model? I just said there needs to be more variety of Transformers, not just token black or female.

Me buying the toys has nothing to do whether or not I like the show. The toys are cool with me if it's cool with them and as long as my parents both working to pay for them. As far as the show goes I don't like what the Hub fanboys have done to it, nor do I like the show that much in general, but that doesn't mean I don't want the toys.

I prefer Transformers series with a demographic higher than 7 years old.

 

Bulkhead is "The Heavy". You can't really claim tokenism in any of these instances because the cast is actually quite diverse given its size.

 

This is coming from a guy who wanted to spend 100-something dollars of his parents money to pay off the mods to remove an infraction?

And you have no proof that my view of simply saying the show is better than Prime at the very least is any less biased than your statement that you haven't even seen the show and that gender roles in society are things to be religiously maintained.

So you're saying that he's black simply because he SOUNDS like a black person to you? The hypocrisy here is staggering.

Are you even paying attention to what you're saying at this point? Let's recap: YOU do not watch ponies because YOU state that it's a girls show, and as a boy you should not watch them. By that same logic, that means girls should not watch boy shows. Transformers is very, very clearly a boys show. And yet you're going on about how Transformers SHOULD appeal more to girls? Talk about double standards here.

Are you really that dense enough to not realize that almost every single opinion of yours I, and pretty much any sane person on the boards, heartily oppose?

But the whole point of the show is to sell the toys. You despise the show, and yet you're funneling money into it by having your parents buy the toys for you.

I think I can identify the problem here: you're trying to act much more mature that you actually are, so you are insecure about your maturity as a result. Hence why you're holding up stupid social norms like gender divisions and refusing to watch a mere cartoon.

 

Not adding to any specific post, but I'd personally like to see a female lead as the autobot commander. It would be cool to see a Ripley type seriousness to her. Make the storyline battle focused, like maybe she rose through the ranks and what not. Arcee would be good, but I'm sure they could make it work no matter what.

 

Kid, without trying to sound like an elitist, you're not much farther off than they are. When did you get into things, out of curiosity?

Your logic here is woefully flawed, unfortunately. Firstly, effectively generalizing the fans of the Prime series into a single, easy-to-criticize group is inaccurate. Most of the fans of Prime who are new to the franchise are children. They're the target audience, and the show will be geared towards them, in terms of content, complexity, and concepts. It's also going to be something of a younger audience compared to Beast Wars and G1, since the core market age for Boy's toys has lowered since then (effectively, boys are moving on to other things at an earlier age, on average). Because the majority of this audience is expected to be transient (and only stay "into" Transformers for a few years), and because they then must be replaced by new young fans, it's good business sense to stick with concepts that have been proven to be attractive in the past. When discussing older fans of Prime, many of them are just as well versed in TF lore as you are, a large segment of them having joined the fandom during the movie era. If you look at the users in the Prime forum, many have watched G1, Beast Wars, Animated, etc. In short, this cohesive group of "Hub fanboys" does not exist, at least not as you present them.

This also goes back to what I was saying in an earlier post, in that you seem to be equating what YOU want with what SHOULD be done. In projecting the aspects of the show that you don't like or want onto a strawman in order to support how much better your opinion is. After all, they're fans too. Why should what you want take priority over what they want? Because you've seen more old shows than they have? That's not how it works, or the older and more experienced users on the site would get what THEY want, not you.

The other problem is that a greater familiarity with the history of the subject matter (or it's "lore" or whatever you want to call it) doesn't necessarily translate to good writing or storytelling. A look at the body of fanfiction that comes out is, sadly, an indication of this. Of the "fans" who have gone on to make meaningful contributions to the franchise, they have only done so AFTER acquiring the skills and experience to work at the professional level a job like this requires. It's these skills that will result in a good end-product, and while a passion and knowledge of the franchise can help, it's not as important. In terms of seeking out fan input, it would be an intellectual property nightmare, and even beyond that, it is a bad idea. Which fans' voices do you think should be heard (going by your post, I'm assuming yours would be among them)? Why? And even then, you can't please everybody, and writing by committee is almost always a catastrophe. The irony is that you'd be more likely to see the kind of movement away from the established formula in a writer with absolutely no experience in Transformers, and who approached the concept with a completely blank slate.

See what I was talking about in the last post?

Unfortunately, they're the ones buying the most toys. This is the nature of the franchise.

 

TFA was going to have female Red Alert, originally, instead of Ratchet. And considering Ratchet's storylines in TFA, and his implied rank, and his history, that would have been AWESOME.

She wouldn't have been an official commander, but she definitely would have pull and insider knowledge and classified info, much less lots of experience, making her an unofficial commander, especially when Oh Crap Things Got Real moments.