Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Cranckasional, Jun 29, 2014.
Well, Optimus isn't seeing the ghost of his dead wife. So that's good.
I do see the similarities like the Governor is sort of like Attinger, Rick is like Optimus and people at the prison are his friends and family and he wants to protect them but he couldn't and later on he got all crazy and starts killing everything that'll hurt his family and friends.
Well, I haven't watched TWD, but if it plays at depth with that character but instead just fetishizes the gruesomely violent outcome and treats it like a positive thing in the most black and white way possible, than yes, it's exactly like Movie Prime.
It certainly doesn't "fetishize" it in either The Walking Dead or the films. You can say a lot about Movie Prime but that is certainly not one of them.
In the show, it's more like The Governor, the main antagonist for season three and the first half of season four, is the one who seems to really love killing. Both Rick and Optimus can at the end of the day be firmly okay with the things they do to protect their loved ones because they can come back from the things they do. They're at peace with it, they know they can be absolute killing machines when someone they love is in danger, but considering the worlds they live in, they need to be. They're both anti-Hero's who are unquestionably still good, even if they make questionable choices or get vengeful.
I always thought that if Rick's group had just a handful of Autobots, their lives would probably be a lot easier. As long as the Governor or Joe or Terminus never got in touch with the Decepticons.
... No, I pretty much can. Especially since it's treated as a totally positive thing and is never called into question when he takes out his gruesome urges against those he designates as evil.
I wouldn't call what Optimus is going through "decent into madness."
More like rage...
But Optimus Prime and Rick Grimes could be compared in many of their traits.
This! Nice to meet a fellow TWD fan :3
No need for another thread like this. Merging with the other one.
No, not really. Optimus getting off on violence against his enemies is one of the biggest WTF things I've ever heard. When does he ever enjoy killing? Sure he spouts one liners and the infamous "Give me your face" but come on, a fetish for that shtick?
I've never seen one shred of evidence that Optimus enjoys killing. He didn't enjoy killing Bonecrusher. Or Megatron, Sentinel, Attinger, Lockdown, or any Decepticon. Sure he lost his temper in battle. He directed it where it's best directed - at the monsters who slaughter innocents for greed, profit, fun, etc. Movie Optimus is no saint but yeesh, a fetish? Really?
No fetish - nothing to call him out for. Is he aggressive? Yes. Is he willing to kill his enemies? Yes. Does he enjoy it and take pleasure from it? No.
Truer words have never been spoken.
I must have missed the scene where he polishes his face collection and plays with them Douglas Clark/Carol Bundy style.
Until I see that, he's no psycho.
Exactly. People can justify some pretty horrible things if there's no comeback because there surrounded by enough people with the same warped or molested points of view. Just look at whats happening in the real world news these days.
Prime should be above this safety in numbers. The necessity of bringing down a villain or a foe does not give you the right to commit unbridled acts of torture or violence. Any Prime should know this.
Movie Prime did know this. Then it all went out the window for two movies. In AOE the balance was better, his actions were less gratuitous, and his motives were clearer and more relatable. Still had a bit of a mouth on him though.
I thinks it's on the Blueray Extras!
I don't think you have to be Hannibal Lecter to be labelled a psychopath. In fact, I'm fairly certain that the Bundys and Bernardos and Hollywood serial killers are on the outside fringes of psychopathy.
But what is communicated by Bay Prime, regardless of technical definitions, is a revelry in violence. Through his manner and swagger and threats, through the cinematic "personality" of his actions, and his "battle tourettes", he certainly does come off as someone who is just a little too much into the "peformance of violence". That's one issue.
The second part of the complaint is that the film itself enshrines this behaviour. It never offers a moment of reflection, where we are asked to consider the tragedy of this portrayal... the dehumanizing, soul-destroying effect of war and violence, and the resulting dissonance between this Optimus Prime and his more traditional portrayal.
Reading this Optimus as the logical extension of someone becoming callous and merciless after repeated loss and betrayal loses much of its poignancy if the films choose not to consider this as loss... as dehumanization... as emotional damage.
I think this is one of the reasons why many consider the Bay films to be borderline propaganda, an indulgence (and celebration of) wartime furor and unselfconscious belicosity. I think that on this level, the films are worthy of some cultural criticism, beyond any nerdy concerns about how a beloved childhood icon is depicted.
So yeah, you may not see it that way... but I think that it is the case regardless.
At least he's never sung the Spine Song.
He does draw the line at singing, yes.
He didnt know Attinger was behind it all at this point.
Yes but... At the moment, Optimus didn't kill Attinger right from the moment he turned around.
Very Valid Indeed.
Irrelevant. Whoever was behind it was going to be killed to not just avenge his family and friends, but to stop them from continuing to make others suffer. Their name could've been Attinger. Savoy. Megatron. Sentinel Prime. Shockwave. Loader. Overlord. Tarn. Inferno. Rampage. Tankor. Skyquake. Porter C. Powell. Henry Masterson. Amora the Enchantress, Ronan the Accuser, Alexander Pierce. Their name could've been Fluttershy and he would've still gone after them and end their reign of murder and terror.
Separate names with a comma.