Is it weird to anyone else that there is so much overlap between Seige/Cyberverse?

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by artiepants, Jan 23, 2019.

  1. artiepants

    artiepants Transformers '84!!!

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    I mean, I feel like Hasbro has the Transformers spread way to thin at retail as it is (Generations/Generations Selcts/Studio Series/Bumblebee/Cyberverse/Authentics/Playskool Heroes/CCG/I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting) but I find myself REALLY surprised at how much overlap there is going on between the new Cyberverse line and Seige.

    I know both of them are trading heavily on G1, but still:

    Optimus Prime
    Megatron
    Shockwave
    Soundwave
    Prowl
    Starscream
    Thundercracker
    plus:
    Ratchet (most like a Walgreen's exclusive in Seige)
    Hot Rod (was just in Power of the Primes as well as Titans Return)
    Grimlock (was just in Power of the Primes)

    I guess none of the overlaps are particularly surprising, but it seems odd to me to have SUCH a large swath of characters existing in both lines essentially occupying shelves at the same time. (it's also pretty surprising/amzing we haven't had Bumblebee announced for Seige yet, LOL, but with the distinctives of his design on the upcoming IDW covers you have to figure it's coming, even if not in Seige)

    I feel like if I was Hasbro, I'd personally have made the lines compliment each other a little more. Make the sculpting less kiddy-fied (which always always feels like pandering to me) on Cyberverse (more like how those Walgreen's Cyber-series were) and focus on a different subset of characters ~ you can still keep your leaders between the lines, but if you offered quality sculpts and alternate characters I think you'd see a lot of Generations fans be willing to jump in.

    even the size classes could have been complimentary: you could do Warriors at closer to the old Scout size, with a similar complexity level to PW3 Legends and "Megas" that are between Deluxe and Voyager.

    Since it's being supported by an actual show you could do some deeper cut characters. I could see Bumblebee + guys like the Throttlebots and Battlechargers (lots of potential parts re-use between them... maybe even you keep the pull back gimmick???), maybe focus again on animal-themed 'cons like RiD'15 did and redo the Insecticons (or better yet Deluxe Insecticons) in a consistent aesthetic. Or focus on a Cars -vs- Jets vibe like G1 started with. Drop in some characters from other recent alternate takes in a more G1ey style (Hot Shot/Bulkhead as examples).

    Again, they could still be simplified in construction and reduced in articulation as necessary, but ya know, look good.
     
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  2. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    It's all part of Hasbro's current plan to unify the brand in terms of looks,characters,lore,etc strongly this time which I feel could end u backfiring on them if they're not careful because having all of your products look similar isn't a good toy business idea.
     
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  3. artiepants

    artiepants Transformers '84!!!

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    right! and i guess my whole thesis is they could have done just that, but in a much more complimentary fashion then filling both lines with nearly 1/2 the same characters (including lots that have been done - or overdone - in recent years) or cursing kids with those "Scouts" that only half transform
    :drunk 
     
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  4. DanC

    DanC Delightful person

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    My strong belief, and I'd be glad to be wrong, is that the kid-aimed line being a G1 retread should worry everyone in the long term.
     
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  5. joespags15

    joespags15 Well-Known Member

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    I've said for years that Hasbro cannibalises it's self with so many lines of transformers. It's stupid, in my mind, that you compete against you're self for shelf space and sales. But, I also think it's stupid that there isn't a good cartoon, that is promoted heavily, for kids to watch that promotes the toy line.
     
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  6. Dudicus

    Dudicus G2 Combiner dudebro.

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    I wish I could like a post more than once. We have no less than FOUR completely separate Transformers toylines competing with each other for shelf space right now (Siege, Studio Series, Bumblebee, Cyberverse), and that’s a whopping FIVE in a lot of stores considering there’s still a lot of PotP leftovers sitting around.
     
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  7. BWfan86

    BWfan86 Well-Known Member

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    It's because the fans keep buying the same characters over and over again. They have no incentive to be innovative/ creative in any way
     
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  8. Venixion

    Venixion Evil Dust Bunny-con

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    No, why would it be? There are always perennial favorites mixed in with the rest of the bunch.

    Too bad Seige won't put out a Slipstream. Holy shit, that would make my year.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
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  9. Max Tower

    Max Tower Well-Known Member

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    I've been complaining about them over farming their core cast for years now. I like them to mix it up and throw in someone different now and again.

    I really didn't have a huge need for 3 pretty similar Windchargers for example. At least Cyberverse is stretching a little - not much but a little. Things like the Battlemasters in the Siege line are quite fresh too - but it does feel like I'm collecting Characters sometimes and not a toyline.

    I'd like to see them pick someone a bit different from the past and go with that like instead of "Seekers" re-introduce The Predator planes or the Skyscorchers, or have an autobot team like the smaller autobot Headmasters, the Double Targetmasters, or The Trigger bots.

    You have the advantage that you can do what you like with them (with in reason) then.
    Or pick someone popular from the past and bring them back like Rescue Bots is doing with Hotshot.

    I'd not mind another Lugnut for example either.

    But yeah I did think it was a trifle strange to be seeing so many Shockwaves at the same time (and heck they may make a Bumblebee Movie one sometime too).

    Authentics are less of an issue as they are not hugely distributed.
     
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  10. Wheeljack84

    Wheeljack84 Well-Known Member

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    I would like a little more character variety as well. I get why characters like Optimus and Megatron keep getting remade. But sometimes it feels like they are doing a lot of the same characters over and over.

    I don't mind Cyberverse's existence other than I wish the show was a lot better. Feels like Hasbro and co. really cheaped out with that series, which I believe has a lot of potential.
     
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  11. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

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    It's all because Hasbro wants to cater to the geewun fans and ignore the rich history of Transformers
     
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  12. artiepants

    artiepants Transformers '84!!!

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    I do feel it's worth giving Hasbro some credit on the PW Trilogy, they pulled some super obscure characters there,
    but then I kind of knock them for how many freaking Optimus Primes they've done the last couple years.
    T30 Orion Pax, CW Prime, CW Battlecore Prime, Powermaster Prime + Super Ginrai/Delta Magnus (or whatever they called him in that multipack + Primitive Skateboard version), Voyager G2 Prime in 2 decos (+ Black Convoy), Power of the Primes Optimus (and Orion Pax + Nemesis Version), Seige voyager Prime, Seige Galaxy Convoy...

    and that's JUST Generations!!! Not even counting all the Primes released in Cyberverse, RiD'15, Studio Series, TLK/AoE, Authentics, Cyber Battalion, Playskool, Masterpiece, G1 reissues, etc, etc, etc...

    to me, one of the brilliant aspects of 80s Transformers and G.I. Joe was how they developed other leaders: you didn't just have Optimus/Rodimus Primes, Megatron/Galvatron and Hawk/Duke: there was a new 'leader type" or more almost every year (Ultra Magnus, Shockwave, Scorponok, Cerebros/Fort Max, Lt. Falcon, Iron Grenadiers Destro, Serpentor): it helped the brands feel "alive" and evolving... it's not that I don't think they should keep Prime out there, just I feel like they're dangerous oversaturating the Red n' Blue market.

    I mean, I think part of the reason I find Siege Prime so "bleh" (besides the spoectacularly dumb alt mode) is that he is essentially the EXACT SAME robot mode as what was on shelf in Power of the Primes just last year (heck, you probably could have seen both on shelf art the same time at some Targets November-January), which in turn was BASICALLY the exact same as MP10 and all his various reissues... there's a limit where you just start diluting things.

    you could argue Siege is kind of a "back to the beginning" for Generations since they have been off in fairly "obscuresville" for the last 4-5 years, but then they are hitting so many of the big characters that did get touched in that period. Maybe I wouldn't feel so bothered if they hadn't just done a voyager Starscream (even though that mold was trash, but then the new one looks to be trash too), just done Soundwave (and even more JUST re-released him) fairly recently done Ultra Magnus and done so many of the 84/85 Autobot cars in Combiner Wars...

    ...I do love that they are hitting the Weaponizers and Micromasters in this line, which is the most exciting thing to me. It just really feels like they could have done a better job parsing characters between Cyberverse and Siege if you are going to have them on shelves next to each other at the same time: Like, there will be 2 Prowls and 2 Starscreams that are NEARLY identical sitting next to each other...
     
  13. KraegorStark

    KraegorStark Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure there is a lot of analytics and market research that has gone into their characters choices. And it's true the same characters sell over and over. If they didn't, they'd stop. As much as we want variety, they're going to safe bets.
     
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  14. artiepants

    artiepants Transformers '84!!!

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    there's undoubtably a lot to that, but it seems like if you don't nurture new characters, your NEVER going to develop the lifelong fans, I mean, some my favorite characters are Smokescreen, Jetfire, Ratbat... all semi obscure that would probably never make it into the line (Aside from Jetfire) with the current attitudes.

    Cyberverse being supported by a cartoon (I haven't seen it so I have no idea about the quality) seems like the perfect opportunity to take the stalwart (Prime/Megatron/Bumblebee/Starscream) and develop some obscure, alternate universe, or *Gasp* NEW characters...
     
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  15. KraegorStark

    KraegorStark Well-Known Member

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    That's part of them playing it safe and not wanting to expand. I don't disagree with you that they need to do that to nurture new characters, but they don't want another Jar Jar.
     
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  16. jmagnus83

    jmagnus83 Well-Known Member

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    I guess my question is this - is the brand actually successfully attracting new fans that will stick with it? Like i will indoctrinate my kid and soon-to-be second kid in the glories of Transformers but Hasbro and its media partners do not seem to be successfully creating real entry points for new fans. Cyberverse seems like a good idea but the toyline is cheap looking and the cartoon looks flat and boring. the Machinima shows were awful. Don't know about the new Rescue bots show or toys. You need to shepherd younger fans from 3 to their teens before you can successfully say they might stay in the hobby as adults. 3 year segments and you will lose fans at each stage. The problem i see isn't a bunch of legacy toys appearing in multiple age brackets but the fact that the cartoons (and to a lesser extent the movies) are totally disconnected from each other in terms of character designs and feel. Continuity at the character level will help to keep kids interested and they want more complex figures and Hasbro does seem to make room for new characters or takes on characters in each new show so that would probably continue.
     
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  17. artiepants

    artiepants Transformers '84!!!

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    all totally valid, interesting points. I don't really have much to add, but I agree, they are mismanaging the media tragically.

    Why they can't achieve a new animated series at the level of quality of the Netflix Voltron is utterly beyond me.
    Prime was the last decent fiction we've really had up until Bumblebee, and even Prime was probably a tad dark for kiddos. (and most of the 'con designs were atrocious, one foot in Bay-verse, one foot in Animated... The 'bots were pretty cool aside from Bulkhead who felt really out of place.)

    Curious if the new comic will be more all-ages friendly*, but since it's still coming out from IDW I really doubt it.

    (*which DOES NOT mean kiddified)
     
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  18. jmagnus83

    jmagnus83 Well-Known Member

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    This and more of this! I have annoyed my wife to no end with my yammerings about a Netflix Transformers show in the same vein as Voltron. The fiction doesn't need to be dark to tell a good mature story. Build up over a few seasons. I don't see Hasbro doing it because they seem wedded to awful ideas like the Prime Wars shows and maintaining a relationship with Cartoon Network where they get terrible time slots.
     
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  19. Wheeljack84

    Wheeljack84 Well-Known Member

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    Netflix Voltron is fine and all, but have any of you seen the toys? They're garbage, especially the figures of the human pilots. Playmates hasn't made awesome toys in forever.
     
  20. RKillian

    RKillian http://www.rktoyandhobby.com

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    Cyberverse isn't bad because it has a few superficial hints of G1, it's bad because it's a low effort operation at every level.
     
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