Is it possible to remove the pillars of transformers and still be successful?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Brooklynwolf, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. Brooklynwolf

    Brooklynwolf Well-Known Member

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    By pillars, I mean Optimus, bee, megatron.

    After the trailer for the Netflix series dropped...it got me thinking...

    Are we brave enough to move away from another TF story involving the same archetypes/characters? Outside of G1 S3 where primes dead and rodimus is leader (though prime does come back)...just about every TF show (for the western market) will always feature prime, megs, and bee, and in some cases, a character like bee.

    Personally...i would LOVE it. I'd love it if they designed a show around a timeline SOOOOO far in the future, where there's no more need for a prime because cybertron (or another planet) is at peace, and it's been that way for over a millennia. But of course, war is a part of the TF mythology...so you'll have a villain that is megatron in spirit, and a protagonist that's so far removed from prime, BUT like a prime, will rise in the ranks and lead his rag tag bunch to victory.

    Hey, I love prime, bee, megs...but, I want something new. Bold, daring. Most of all, I just want new characters that are sooo removed from what's been established before.

    Yeah, I sound like I'm taking crazy pills...but...does anyone else here feel the same?




    Anyone?






    Hello???
     
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  2. B u m b l e b e e

    B u m b l e b e e Bumblebee

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    To answer your question, if that Beast Wars film blows up, it could mean massive changes for the franchise. You’ve seen how influential and impactful the Iron Man film was. Tony Stark is now arguably more popular than the likes of Batman and is a worldwide phenomenon.

    Personally though, I’d always keep characters like Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, Megatron, and Starscream around. They’re iconic and the faces of this brand. Just like how Spider-Man and the Avengers is with Marvel. You can bring in the more obscure characters like Optimus Primal or Blackarachnia while still keeping the others around. There just needs to be a reasonable balance.
     
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  3. cybeast

    cybeast Well-Known Member

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    The thing is, if you remove them all, but makes a "Megatron in spirit" or character who are "removed from a Prime, but LIKE a Prime", it'll usually just ends up as cheap carbon copy of those mentioned characters.
     
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  4. Brooklynwolf

    Brooklynwolf Well-Known Member

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    Dammit! Mods, my apologies, but if this isn't the appropriate category or section, please move to proper location.

    The thing with beast wars is that...it's still optimus and megatron. I was thinking more along the lines of...Avatar, the last air bender. The 2nd series featured an entire new cast, took place in the future, and had call backs to the original cast.

    When I said "LIKE a prime", I meant like...he was a soldier and rose to the ranks and earned the title prime. Kind of like...a hot rod...only without THAT baggage...if you catch my drift haha.
     
  5. zark225

    zark225 The Day Fukr

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    It is certainly possible but, like most things, it would have to be done right. I'd love to see something like this eventually. Nothing against the "pillars" of Transformers, but something new like that would be nice for a new iteration or two.
     
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  6. Galvatross

    Galvatross Nemesis of the Dreklords Veteran

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    I think it's certainly possible.

    I think the key is timing more than anything though, and capturing lightning in a bottle. I think if the makers of a Transformers series were to start at a place in the story without Prime, Megatron, Starscream, etc. in a way that captures the imagination of a new generation of kids and adolescents, then you have a chance of having many young people fall in love with new and/or lesser used characters. For better or for worse, many, if not a decent majority, of Transformers fans tend to like what is familiar with them. It's how the human brain works usually; people develop schemata of how things should be based on their initial, or at least early, introduction to a concept. That's why the earlier stuff in Transformers series is often much more beloved than later stuff, even when the quality is the same.

    Consequently, if you were to start a story or series with lesser used characters and concepts, or a brand new angle entirely, and you can hook a new generation somehow, you might get a demographic of viewers who actually enjoy something different for what it is.

    I would love for a new continuity or new series within an existing continuity to begin with characters like Rodimus, the Quintessons, Galvatron, Lockdown, Sixshot, Punch-Counterpunch, or someone new entirely, and establish that Transformers is Transformers and not just certain characters. Will it happen soon? I don't know, and I rather doubt it, but I can hope.
     
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  7. B u m b l e b e e

    B u m b l e b e e Bumblebee

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    Oh, I see. Beast Wars sort of did that since it was a follow-up of G1 with occasional Easter eggs/references. And Optimus Primal and Megatron are different characters from Optimus Prime and Megatron (G1)
     
  8. Brooklynwolf

    Brooklynwolf Well-Known Member

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    My dude! *high five*

    Of course it has to be done right. And all of it falls on the writing. Make every character like-able as hell, and we as the audience don't know who of the main protagonists will become the new leader...or the title of prime. To usher in another age of peace.

    I love the pillars of TF...but man, I just want a new direction Y'know? One of the reasons a solo prime movie is hard to do is because the character is pretty much...perfect. The ideal hero everyone should aspire to be. And as awesome as prime is, he becomes a tool for writers to use as a "get out of trouble" or "saves the day". It'd be nice to have some fresh new surprises every now and then. Currently the ONLY kind of surprise with a story involving prime would be "oh no, he died!"...and cmon, no one wants to go through that again.

    *epic fist bump*

    Existing within an existing continuity is the best way of approaching this. That way you can have throwbacks, homages. Keep the legends in our psyche, but tell new stories with new characters.

    Yeah and I loved that show because of its connection with G1...but what I'm yearning for is a show with characters that don't have names like Optimus or megatron. Yeah primal and megatron were different characters. But they still had their names...I just want something completely different.

    Ever see macross? Now the quality of the stories range from decent to bad...but nonetheless, every new show is always focused on new characters. It takes place in the same universe/canon...but original characters are either dead because the it's so far in the timeline, or the new characters are linked to original characters through familial bonds.
     
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  9. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde シン・ブリュンヒルド

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    I think it's totally possible in theory, I just have doubts of it happening and or being any good unless made in Japan or something.
     
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  10. TheSoundwave

    TheSoundwave Well-Known Member

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    That is what I want too. Seeing the Siege trailer reaffirmed that for me more than anything. I love Optimus and Bee and Megatron, but I'd really like to see some new stuff too. The war for Cybertron is cool and all, but haven't we seen that story a lot of times before? I'd really like to see some stories about new things, starring new characters. There's a whole universe of stuff to do.
     
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  11. ziltama

    ziltama Mods, molds, and casts. Also full of hot gas.

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    Powerglide and human romance story, go!
     
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  12. zark225

    zark225 The Day Fukr

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    *High five*

    Agreed though. Optimus Prime and Megatron are among my favorite fictional characters of all time, but they, along with some others, should sit out a series or two.
     
  13. Longitudinalwave

    Longitudinalwave A Big Fan of (Sound/Shock)wave

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    My brother and I just finished watching Transformers Victory for the first time, and I loved it. The cast of characters is almost entirely different from any previous (or following) series, but the show was well-written, the characters were good (well, except maybe some members of the Multiforce), and the animation looked really good for a show from 1989.
    Beast Wars is a similarly good (and probably even better in terms of the writing) show, and it, too, had a very different cast of characters from the norm.
    Animated is a weird case where the cast is similar to casts from older shows, but somehow makes them all seem like very distinct characters from the originals while not making the characters feel like they've been given the names of older characters that don't fit them. It is also excellent.
    If a new series took a similar stab at making their own, nearly totally new franchise, though, I'd like to see a main villain who is not in the Megatron mold. Even BW Megatron, Animated Megatron, and Deathsaurus (the big bad of Victory) were pretty similar to G1 Megatron in terms of goals. They don't necessarily have to be sympathetic (though that would be something we haven't really yet seen outside the comics, and, from what I understand, Super-God Masterforce), but I would like someone who isn't a warlord as the big bad.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  14. TFXProtector

    TFXProtector Well-Known Member

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    They technically tried this, already, in G1/TFTM. It didn't really work nearly as well as they had hoped.

    BW worked because it was visually stunning, but still was a part of G1 and had an Optimus (Primal) and Megatron.

    Other iterations have always had them. Even RID 2015 included Optimus and mentioned Megatron.
    I think they're gun-shy because TFTM was met with such venom. Heck, there are fans that STILL hate Hot Rod/Rodimus to this day, mind you it's pointless to and he's a fictional character, but whatevs...

    It also doesn't help that the HOW of the introduction was such a terrible choice.

    Another problem is fandoms. The whole world is seeing how everyone's reacting to Star Wars and new character introductions (yes, I know, JJ didn't handle it properly, etc.) and Terminator's changes, etc. A lot of people just don't want to chance it.

    Could it work? Possibly. Look at TNG vs OST, it's arguably the better series and Picard the better captain (though Kirk had his gem moments) but it takes something TNG level in TF to make it work. The problem in both cases are they're sequels to established canon featuring the beloved characters.

    Rebooting from the ground up is going to be a hard sell.
     
  15. TheUltimateBum

    TheUltimateBum Nautica Lover

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    I do think we could do without Optimus and Megatron. Bumblebee... I can take him or leave him (but that's mainly because I resigned to the fact that he is still the popular kid-appeal character which will mean he'll always get toys in the many current lines), but OP and Megs do have to either die or take a long leave of absence from the franchise.

    If I were to do a series, I would have Rodimus as Autobot Leader and Shockwave as Decepticon Leader (because I always found the Marvel G1 version of Shockwave to be much more competent and interesting than Megatron ever was). And under their command would be a mix of both popular (Arcee, Starscream, Bumblebee, Smokescreen, Windblade, etc.) and rare characters that really haven't been used or developed properly (G2 Deluge, Quake, Daytonus, ROTF Breakaway, etc) or have had some great development, but still haven't been used as much as they should be (Nightbeat, Minerva, Nautica, Thunderhoof, Tankor, Sky-Byte, etc).
     
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  16. cybeast

    cybeast Well-Known Member

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    I get you, but like I said, it'll always be compared to Prime, and badly written, it'll be just Prime, but not named Prime, but acts and go like Prime, only without the Prime name.
     
  17. Longitudinalwave

    Longitudinalwave A Big Fan of (Sound/Shock)wave

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    You're not wrong.
    "Hey, kids, you know how you've grown to love all these Autobots over the course of two years and sixty-some episodes? Well, forget about them, because they've all died horrible deaths! These NEW GUYS are here, and they're really important for some reason! Don't you love I've Got Better Things to Do Tonight Than Die, Old Man, Turbo-Revvin' Young Punk, Robot Flash Who Talks Really Fast, and the Girl? And you know Optimus Prime? Your beloved hero and possible father figure-surrogate? Well, he's DEAD now, and he's passed the Matrix to his "old friend", Can't Deal With It Right Now, who you've never seen before! Now, since a bunch of the old toys are dead, we're going to focus solely on these new guys whose names you may or may not remember! But don't worry, by the end of the movie, Turbo-Revvin' Young Punk will become Replaceimus Prime! Buy his toy! He's just as good as Optimus!":) 
    I like the 1986 movie, but as a way to introduce new characters, it's not very effective. There's a reason I usually stop watching after Starscream gets atomized.
    The Movie characters do get better fleshed out in Season 3 (with the exceptions of Springer, Arcee, and Blurr), but the movie really wasn't a good way to bring them into the series, given how it was handled.
     
  18. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

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    We can do better than Optimus Prime. The hard thing isn't coming up with a fresh take on Transformers, the hard thing is getting it passed Hasbro and getting everyone on board with it and excited about it, and getting the people with the money to agree to allow it to happen.

    It'll go through some committee meeting groupthink and they'll either homogenize all the originality out of it and reinsert those characters, or else they'll all get on board with putting their own stamp on it and the end result will be such a contrived clusterfuck as to have everyone here clamoring for the return of Optimus Prime and Megatron.
     
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  19. Prime Noble

    Prime Noble Well-Known Member

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    Rescue Bots for the most part doesn't feature the pillars or even Decepticons and is still going. The Autobots are likeable too.

    Personally I want Prowl to get the spotlight but Not as a prick or desk jockey. His G1 tech specs portrayal as logical and extremely patient. Basically Transformers answer to Data from Star Trek.

    I'd love to see Soundwave back with his voice from Bumblebee which is the only modern Soundwave that actually sounded like his G1 self.

    And Ironhide voiced by Peter Cullen.

    It would be great to see lesser known Transformers rather than just Optimus, Bumblebee, Wheeljack, Jetfire, Perceptor, Windblade and Kup. I've always found those characters boring. They're either morally perfect or know all scientists.

    I want badass Sunstreaker from Dreamwave. Or Autobot psychopath, Repugnus.

    Or a unit of new Seekers. Cyberverse having Slipstream leading Thundercracker, Acid Storm and Nova Storm is a good example of how to do it well.
     
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  20. Cosbydaf

    Cosbydaf Well-Known Member

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    I can see a bit of lenience on Megatron, and maaaybe Bumblebee. Getting a tv show made without any form of Optimus(or Optimus Primal) I see that as being completely unrealistic. They're not going to bench the best-selling character for years because a couple guys on a forum are tired of him.

    The best I can see Hasbro doing is something like what Rescue Bots did, where Optimus and Bumblebee exist and sometimes make guest appearance but the primary focus of the show is on different characters. The main problem is, how do you sell the new showrunners to the audience, especially the ones who aren't tired of those characters? If it's not handled well it could be like Disney Star Wars, where the hip new characters the audience are supposed to get invested in are either weak imitations of the classics, or silly doofuses who don't amount to anything. The closest example I can think of is Windblade who's presence has been...divisive.

    I think part of the reason that Transformers is going in the direction it has because of RID 2015. They were a couple classic names returning but for the most part it was new characters, Bumblebee leads the team but he acts way more like Rodimus and might as well be a new character. And from what I've seen, almost none of it made a lasting impact. The vast majority of the new characters weren't interesting and people didn't care. It's not enough to just be different, you gotta have something to hook the audiences with. Good writing would be nice, but given how TF shows have been tied in with Cartoon Network, I don't know plausible that is either.
     
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