Is B.O.T. really that bad?

Discussion in 'Transformers Earthspark and Cartoon Discussion' started by Proud Nintendo, Jun 4, 2020.

  1. Proud Nintendo

    Proud Nintendo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Posts:
    286
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +527
    Funny story, I remember after getting hooked on Beast Wars, it made me want to watch G1 so I ended up ordering a bunch of tapes that had all the episodes and the movie. I watched all of Season 1 and 2 dutifully and then I watched the movie, but as I started the Season 3 tape, there was one episode from Season 2 on there and it was this one. I was like "Oh crap! I skipped an episode." it was kinda surreal seeing all these characters again after watching most of them get killed off horribly in the movie. As for the episode... yeah.. I don't remember much of it. But TF Wiki considers it the worst episode ever. (and that's saying something)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. TheUltimateBum

    TheUltimateBum Nautica Lover

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Posts:
    2,670
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +4,974
    It is a very faulty episode, but I've seen worse episodes (and series). Despite season three being one of my favorite seasons of the whole series, Fight or Flee is a much worse episode than B.O.T. ever was. B.O.T. had a saving grace in Swindle, and at least you could laugh at all the nonsensical bullshit going on, whereas Fight or Flee had almost every character not feeling like themselves (Rodimus being pretty distant and bland whereas in other episodes he was a lot more interesting and enjoyable, Galvatron not feeling as insane as he usually was, Bruticus seemingly having acquired a bit more intelligence compared to his previous appearances, etc.) and the incredibly sloppy animation it had. Only saving grace of Fight or Flee was Sandstorm, but other than that, the story was pretty boring, which is one impressive feat, because if you gave it to a good writer, it would have been one hell of an episode.

    Hell, I think I enjoy B.O.T. a lot more than I ever enjoyed TFA and TFP (yeah, as other people know, I never was a fan of these shows). I would consider it an episode that's so bad that it becomes pretty fun.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. TheSoundwave

    TheSoundwave Bounty Hunter

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Posts:
    8,135
    News Credits:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Location:
    Jabba's Palace
    Likes:
    +16,232
    I think it's just one of TFWiki's weird running gags. I certainly wouldn't call it great, but in my book it's not the worst episode ever. And I don't tend to see the "worst episode ever" sentiment echoed in the general fanase either...or really anywhere outside of TFWiki. I think BOT is a lot better than something like Sea Change. At least BOT's premise worked well with the brand. And BOT is a lot more memorable than some of the boring episodes. BOT is an easy target for over-scrutinizing adult fans because it has a lot of technical errors and some dumb/goofy aspects, but if you look at the episode as a whole it's really just a slightly below-average episode.

    While it's completely fine for adults to criticize children's media, it's also important to at least consider it through the lens of a child. When I saw BOT as a kid, I didn't see anything more wrong with it than other episodes. And for what it's worth, BOT was always a fairly memorable episode to me. On the other hand, I was saying "what the heck am I watching" about Sea Change as a kid. So to me BOT at least succeeds in doing its job.
     
    • Like Like x 9
  4. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Posts:
    7,405
    Trophy Points:
    292
    Likes:
    +10,868
    No.

    I mean it has plenty of things that are illogical in it, but so does every piece of Transformers fiction ever made.

    I unironically think it has one of the most enjoyable human dynamics in the cartoon. The way the very devious Roland and Martin compare with the very reasonable Elise Presser is quite an interesting group of humans. Yeah, the two boys are despicable, but that's kind of the point.

    Also, the cartoon has Chip Chase, a kid in a wheelchair, foiling the Decepticons and Lord Chumlee capturing all of the Autobots but Prime, so humans have already able to foil or defeat Cybertronians. Therefore, I don't think B.O.T., despite being built by high school students and using Brawn's brain, causing a bunch of property damage and chaos is really that bizarre in the context of the cartoon.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Wields Mjolnir!

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2002
    Posts:
    18,884
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    387
    Likes:
    +8,131
    It's bad in that there's an excessive amount of weird or stupid things going on in the episode. Unlike other episodes like the giant purple griffin or Sea Change, which are plotwise pretty goofy episodes, BOT just tends to be a little unrelenting about pouring on questionable plot development onto poor plot development for virtually the entire runtime.

    You start out with a Helicopter and a Space Shuttle rolling down the street with their fellow Combaticons 5 abreast down a street and getting one shot demolished by the Protectabots, who then leave the wreckage rather then apprehending them, then Swindle decides to sell his only allies off for parts for mysterious profit? Add in that Megatron has created a gun that for some reason can only be operated by a Combiner, then doesn't employ either of the two he has because he wants the third one to use it, so he threatens Swindle to get his team back together and sends him off on his own. Then two delinquents and a smartypants high schooler make a robot that with Brawls brain pwns Autobots? And so forth.

    I find it difficult to not see the dip in quality of episodes like this against, say Masquerade, or the like, which serve the same purpose, advertise the combiner in the spotlight hard.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde Lord High Governor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Posts:
    24,426
    News Credits:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Location:
    Darkmount
    Likes:
    +50,817
    Nah, not really. I mean it's no more or less absurd than a lot of the show already is.
     
  7. Scoff

    Scoff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Posts:
    707
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Likes:
    +1,585
    Yup, B.O.T was absurd even by the show's own standards.

    On the flipside, there's Swindle who is great.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  8. TheWarPathGuy

    TheWarPathGuy Tougher than Leather.

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2018
    Posts:
    6,224
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    Illinois, Chicago
    Likes:
    +7,461
    The opening was funny as shit. 5 robots drive into a city for no apparent reason, then they transform, stop what their doing, and transform into Bruticus, then Defensor finds them, shoots them, they fall apart, and then he walks off. While Swindle thinks what the hell just happened.
    I think the Combaticons were really just chilling, then Defensor wanted to be a dick.
    It's not the worst episode, it's a "so bad, it's good" episode. Hoist Goe to Hollywood is the worse episode in my opinion.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Meta777

    Meta777 Dr Pepper Fan

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Posts:
    15,761
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +7,058
    [​IMG]

    Megatron dared Soundwave to put a human-sized self-destruct button on his device and the madman actually did it, what a legend.
     
    • Like Like x 12
  10. Liege Nemesis

    Liege Nemesis Snarks about old cartoons

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2019
    Posts:
    3,980
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Langley, B.C., Canada
    Likes:
    +9,580
    I think it mostly is. It's not necessarily the worst episode in the series, but it is really bad as it focuses on a trio of unlikable characters who carry out a silly nonsense plot while everyone else acts like utter morons in order to facilitate everything that goes on. On their own any of these elements aren't unfamiliar to G1, but taken together this is a rare confluence of suck that makes the episode completely unenjoyable outside of the fun bits at the beginning with Swindle.

    For reference, here's what I said when I watched the episode last year as part of the G1 phase of my rewatch:

     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Swerve

    Swerve Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Posts:
    596
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +1,836
    It's probably the cumulative effect. Many episodes have a trite plot and are fine because they're, well, fun. Many episodes have animation errors, infamously so, and many episodes are just plain poorly drawn - for instance, "Five Faces of Darkness" and "Dark Awakening" both look awful, but their story is compelling and their soundtrack really good, so I forgive them. Many episodes have weird plot inconsistencies and moments of just plain stupid where the writer doesn't seem to have thought. That's expected; the turnaround on script editing time and the compressed narrative of a twenty something minute episode means that sometimes there simply isn't time on that budget to get something to make logical narrative sense or rewrite it till it does. Many episodes have annoying human characters. Many episodes have frustratingly wasted potential - o, Protectobots, my dear Protectobots, why did this have to be your hero episode... - but B.O.T. gets saddled with all of the above, at once. There are good aspects - The suggestion that, at this stage, the Special Teams are starting to become semi-autonomous groups with their own bases is interesting, and Swindle comes across very well, but they get overwhelmed by too much of a tidal wave of dross.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. RKStrikerJK5

    RKStrikerJK5 number one Bangles fan on the boards

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2019
    Posts:
    3,975
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Likes:
    +10,885
    BOT is the perfect storm of suck. As @Swerve says right above me, it's cumulative. Any one or two bad elements might not make it bad, but BOT has all of the bad. It's got some good, mostly Swindle, but beyond that... yeesh!

    Although in the grand scheme of transformers it's not even close to the worst. Pat Lee, anyone? Or KISS Players...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Longitudinalwave

    Longitudinalwave A Big Fan of (Sound/Shock)wave

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2020
    Posts:
    2,633
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +5,419
    B.O.T. is one of those episodes that's so bad, it pulls a near-180 and almost becomes good again due to the sheer ridiculousness of it all. That being said, the "Swindle-sells-his-teammates" bit was a legitimately good idea (even if the execution didn't make much sense), and Martin and Roland were just awful. Not funny awful like the rest of the episode, just plain awful.

    Here are some of the worst/best parts:
    [​IMG]
    The helicopter and the space shuttle are driving on the ground, and somehow the space shuttle can drive down the (presumably normally-sized) road with four other vehicles. Scale doesn't exist in this episode.
    [​IMG]
    Seriously, this episode is where scale goes to die. How big is that teapot?
    [​IMG]
    LOL. Nice cheer-leading routine, there, Combaticons.
    [​IMG]
    And, as Meta777 already pointed out...who installed this "Over Load" button, and why?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. PrimeSmokescreen 04

    PrimeSmokescreen 04 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2020
    Posts:
    785
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Likes:
    +1,675
    B.O.T is also better than carnage on c.minor, madmans paradise, and face of the nijka
     
  15. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde Lord High Governor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Posts:
    24,426
    News Credits:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Location:
    Darkmount
    Likes:
    +50,817
    No it isn't, TFwiki's staff are just special.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Furnace

    Furnace Antroid at a picnic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Posts:
    2,985
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +5,440
    I mean, it's bad but I wouldn't go so far as to call it the worst. After all, Carnage in C Minor exists. ;) 
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    45,216
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    [REDACTED]
    Likes:
    +40,600
    The article is quite legitimately better than the actual episode because of the sheer outright stupidity.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  18. TheUltimateBum

    TheUltimateBum Nautica Lover

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Posts:
    2,670
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +4,974
    I actually like those episodes.

    Madman's Paradise is corny of course, but it had some great action and a great villain in Mara-al-Utha.

    Carnage in C-Minor had very awful animation, but I really enjoy the story. It's utter nonsense, but the kind of nonsense I really enjoy. Plus, I liked seeing Ultra Magnus taking on Galvatron and Blaster fighting Soundwave. I also enjoyed Broadside's appearance in it.

    And Face of Nijika... I just loved seeing that the Quintesson's manipulations went as far as to isolate a complete civilization in order to not let them thrive and develop. It also has some really nice Rodimus quips, Perceptor as a geisha (this makes me laugh to no end) and it's a nice sort of goodbye to Roger C. Carmel (since this was the last episode that featured him as Cyclonus and one of the Quintessons before he passed away) since Cyclonus has a very major role and Roger gets a nice Roger-on-Roger action (with him as Cyclonus and the Quintesson that goes with him to the planet).
     
  19. PrimeSmokescreen 04

    PrimeSmokescreen 04 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2020
    Posts:
    785
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Likes:
    +1,675
    On second thought I think I do like this episode more, mostly because cyclonus does have some good moments. I never realised he voiced both cyclonus and the quintesson though, neat bit of trivia.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Maximus Danz

    Maximus Danz Trying to achieve something

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Posts:
    15,015
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    302
    Location:
    The Danz Cave, Swearth
    Likes:
    +34,656
    Nah, it's definitely on the lower tier of season two, but it is fine. I think it is despised for two key reasons:
    1. It was the end of the otherwise excellent Bruticus Saga.
    2. It was the transition between season 2 and the movie.

    Which makes me wonder if the TFWiki team saw "Carnage in C minor" or "The Autobot Run".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2020